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xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
I went to Xara.com today to see if there was anything new being announced about the Designer Pro product. It took me a good 5 minutes to even FIND where that product info is, with the entirety of the Xara.com site seemingly geared to completely selling the new Xara Cloud. The menu at the top has no "products" option. There is no info anywhere on the page that Xara makes software at all. I had to scroll all the way to the bottom and find the "desktop" link under products.
Given how much Xara has been pointing this direction over the past several years, this website move (which might not even be especially new), is quite worrying and maybe telling about where the company is focusing its development efforts.
I'm certainly not the first to mention it, but it sure seems WAY more front and center now.
Looking for feedback as I evaluate whether to continue using the product or look for other options.
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
it's since magix now do both the marketing and the support for xara desktop programs
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
Yes, the site is devoid of Xara products all but Xara Cloud as you state. Basically Magix has now taken over marketing Xara's previous software titles. Xara is still developing them but it's main focus appears to be Xara Cloud.
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
Wow that's a real and worrying shift of focus. You have to go to the footer for the desktop products now. It's kinda sad they're burying away such a great program. The sad reality of SAAS and subscription models replacing good desktop programs.
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
or is it the fact that xara are owned by magix...
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
slavelle, I think you have answered your own question.
Can anyone think a new customer, searching for a Xara web or graphics application to find the majority of first and top hits go to Xara Cloud, would then search a site for a further five minutes?
That is not marketing that is a market withdrawal.
Acorn
@Xara - five months since an Update, 9 weeks since Magix received the Update for packaging, over three weeks since Magix promoted the Update's "New Features" that we all wanted, over a week since MB365 assured the Update was coming...
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Acorn
That is not marketing that is a market withdrawal.
Seems to be the case. This will redirect sales from desktop program to cloud or bounce. Less people will find or be aware of the desktop programs now. Not good.
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
it's just a step along the way to making 'xara' a magix marque rather than a separate entity... the cloud saas will go that way eventually
Quote:
@Xara - five months since an Update, 9 weeks since Magix received the Update for packaging, over three weeks since Magix promoted the Update's "New Features" that we all wanted, over a week since MB365 assured the Update was coming...
has anyone yet mentioned that Affinity has just been named 'Application Creator of the Year' in this years Microsoft Developer Awards - Xara can't even get an update out in time...
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
Agreed. The Magix site is festooned with product variations with Xara tucked in towards the bottom. A very kaleidoscopic approach to marketing. Buyers are not going to loiter long enough to determine which product is right. The majority of graphic designs and websites are still generated on desktops with installed software. I don't see that changing as there is no compelling reason or advantage to abandon current working habits and products. This will be interesting, albeit disappointing.
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
I did exactly the same thing as Slavelle, looking for any updates or new information. I was shocked that everything had changed.
IMHO selling Xara to Magix was the worst thing they've ever done. And the second worst thing they've ever done is promising updates that never happen. I continue to renew my update subscription so that I can get the new features that they said would be released throughout the year, and yet I continue to get.....<insert sound of crickets here>.
It appears that all their focus is on Xara Cloud which I have zero interest in and will never, ever use. I hate cloud-based SaaS products.
I have a small business producing networked business software (totally unrelated to graphic/web design) where users can optionally renew an update plan every 12 months for only 30% of the cost of their licence. They do get several new features throughout the year (usually every month). And if they don't renew their plan they don't lose anything they already have - they just don't get any of the new features that come out after their plan expires. If for some reason I didn't release any updates for 12 months (it has never happened) I would extend the update plans for another 12 months for free. To me that seems a fair way to do things.
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stevegill
II have a small business producing networked business software (totally unrelated to graphic/web design) where users can optionally renew an update plan every 12 months for only 30% of the cost of their licence. They do get several new features throughout the year (usually every month). And if they don't renew their plan they don't lose anything they already have - they just don't get any of the new features that come out after their plan expires. If for some reason I didn't release any updates for 12 months (it has never happened) I would extend the update plans for another 12 months for free. To me that seems a fair way to do things.
Steve, thank you for your opinion and approach: low renewal, frequent updates, extension if a delay. Why Magix/Xara cannot adopt such a simple model, we will never know. 31 May will be Xara's CEO ascendancy with no Desktop application updates to herald his reign. Expect a cornucopia of riches beyond your dreams...
Acorn
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
Do I detect just a scintilla of sarcasm in your post, Acorn?
Bob. >:)
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
iamtheblues
Do I detect just a scintilla of sarcasm in your post, Acorn?
Bob. >:)
No Bob, it is blatant anger and frustration. If Xara would show some remorse, humanity or compassion for its very poor treatment of its Customers, I might once again extol the virtues of Xara's unique aspects to others.
The sarcasm was gratis.
Acorn
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
i have bitched at xara for a long time
really can't be bothered from now on
I don't need to use their software...
good luck to all who do....
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
This really is an incredibly poor approach. As noted, the Xara.com site is all about the cloud product -- and while it's a trendy direction, I, like many others, have little or not interest in working that way -- and finding any reference to the desktop products is far too difficult. Then - looking at the Magix website, the Xara products virtually disappear there as well. It's truly as if there's a concerted effort to make it difficult to find any online information about the desktop products, either by Xara or Magix. Sad to think this is merely an unintentional blunder; depressing to think that this may actually be purposeful, as an attempt to kill off any interest in the desktop products, and let the user base fall away by attrition.
Really pretty dreadful all around. Instead of working to increasingly make the products disappear, Xara and/or Magix should be devoting increasing space to them, making more examples, use cases, tutorials, online communities, etc., visible, and nurturing interest and activity. What they're doing is virtually guaranteeing that 1) current users will become increasingly disgruntled, and 2) no new users will feel compelled to buy the products.
Sad situation.
Jon
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
Magix have extended the cut-off date for V15 upgrades many times, so one could assume that take-ups are scarce. I also note with some fear of impending finality, that it is taking longer and longer for V12 to open - is this a not so subtle 'incentive' for us to update in the sad expectation that V15 will open quicker? I can't help comparing this to the recent reports that Apple had slowed down old iPhones to prompt users to upgrade to a faster one.
We can only hope that Xara will provide it's loyal users with a software key that does not require an internet connection BEFORE they go bust! Non-existent and/or tardy support and non-existent fixes seem to be the order of the day at Xara, so Magix are no doubt getting ready to dump all of their 'traditional' software in favour of a single cloud-based solution, that I for one, do not want.
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
I do the majority of my web design in XDP X15 as well as general graphic design. I've now started looking elsewhere for a replacement product(s) as I'm really worried about the future of the desktop product because (1) it seems to be disappearing from the Internet before my eyes, (2) none of the promised regular feature releases have happened, and (3) the response from Xara themselves is silence.
I've seen this happen before with other companies/products and the end result has not been good.
I really hope I'm wrong but I'm preparing the lifeboat.
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stevegill
I do the majority of my web design in XDP X15 as well as general graphic design. I've now started looking elsewhere for a replacement product(s) as I'm really worried about the future of the desktop product because (1) it seems to be disappearing from the Internet before my eyes, (2) none of the promised regular feature releases have happened, and (3) the response from Xara themselves is silence.
I've seen this happen before with other companies/products and the end result has not been good.
I really hope I'm wrong but I'm preparing the lifeboat.
Me too Steve. I find the whole situation concerning and I think it is deliberate too.
May I ask what you are looking at? I've downloaded Inkscape and have started doing their tutorials, my big problem is I found Xara very easy to use very quickly whereas as Adobe style products, my wife has Photoshop for instance, I just don't find intuitive.
I'd appreciate anyone's advice.
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
Affinity Designer is probably what you are looking for. Affinity Photo too, if you work in vector and bitmaps.
LINK For Designer (Windows and Mac) €55 each ~ no subscription, regular updates!
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
iamtheblues
Affinity Designer is probably what you are looking for. Affinity Photo too, if you work in vector and bitmaps.
LINK For Designer (Windows and Mac) €55 each ~ no subscription, regular updates!
I have looked at Affinity Designer but the problem I have is it seems very Adobe-centric and it's probably only me but I have a real problem with the controls of Adobe - it is the way my brain is wired I do realise but it can be very frustrating when something doesn't follow the way my logic works :D
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
After the demise of MS FrontPage, Xara Web Designer was the main reason I ended up on V10/11/12. I won't upgrade to 15 unless the problems are fixed and it is made possible to run it into the future without www access. Sadly, Affinity has no website design equivalent as far as I can see :rolleyes:
When the axe falls and Xara products fail to function when their www connection evaporates, it looks like I'll be back to a hotch-potch collection of disparate software, all with it's own way of working. Cloud-based design software might be great if you live in a country with reliable and fast www access, but I'm in Australia where we have huge distances between centres and the sh!tt!est, piecemeal, slow, costly, unreliable web access our 'leaders' could have devised.
Xara was on the right path with their integrated modules in XDPro, but they seem hell-bent on jumping off! If you're reading this Xara I hope you realise what's happening and decide to make standalone keys available at reasonable cost before the axe falls. And you need to come out into the light and say something definite and encouraging. Not happy.
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
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Originally Posted by
jaydear
Cloud-based design software might be great if you live in a country with reliable and fast www access, but I'm in Australia where we have huge distances between centres and the sh!tt!est, piecemeal, slow, costly, unreliable web access our 'leaders' could have devised.
Me too. Only ADSL2+ is available to me and the speed I get varies from 0.01 Mbps to 3 Mbps (if I'm lucky). We're located too far from the nearest exchange to get anything faster, and that's heavily congested anyway. What the Govt calls high speed broadband (which is a joke in itself) is still years off for my area.
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
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Originally Posted by
David Strover
May I ask what you are looking at? I've downloaded Inkscape and have started doing their tutorials, my big problem is I found Xara very easy to use very quickly whereas as Adobe style products, my wife has Photoshop for instance, I just don't find intuitive.
I haven't really found anything suitable yet. For websites I have looked at the Coffee Cup products and WYSIWYG WebBuilder. For general graphic design work I haven't found anything I like so far.
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
Well, based on the responses thus far, it looks like I am far from alone.
And here we are several days later and no response from Xara and not from the new ceo specifically.
I am looking at Affinity like many here, but honestly, the learning curve is there to deal with and it would have to knock it completely out to get my money.
We don't really use a lot of web features in Xara except for two things... 1 design mockups with some live parts that are just better than a flat jpg and 2. Splash pages, which are really easy and fast. It may stay around for the second option, but I really don't want to support Xara with things going SO far away from the desktop, even when the core of that part of the program has been begging for years for new and improved drawing tools and what we get is more and more dumbed down, cloud based, least common denominator desktop software... With no new drawing tools and a complete lack of respect for the very users who made Xara even possible to look at professionally. But they seem to want to give that all away for the entry level masses, even at the pro versions... Provided you can find them. SMH.
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
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Originally Posted by
stevegill
Me too. Only ADSL2+ is available to me and the speed I get varies from 0.01 Mbps to 3 Mbps (if I'm lucky). We're located too far from the nearest exchange to get anything faster, and that's heavily congested anyway. What the Govt calls high speed broadband (which is a joke in itself) is still years off for my area.
You have my sympathy! High speed broadband? Here we have fibre to the node and then 1.2Km of ancient copper which is terminated in a pit at our gate... a pit that fills with water every time it rains. A joke indeed; they only pulled in one bundle for the whole suburb, so when all the schoolkids come home the already pitiful speed plummets. We still don't have broadband and likely never will because they didn't drag in enough fibre to connect everybody. The assumption by companies like Xara and Magix that everybody is connected is a fallacy and basing products on a fallacy is doomed to failure.
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
Speaking of Affinity - as an alternative, albeit not same, there is Gravit that might have potential. I reckon between GIMP, Inkscape, Affinity (not free mind), Paint.Net and Gravit - (Scribus somewhat too) there are alternatives. As for Web Page design... not sure.
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
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Originally Posted by
Panchdara
Speaking of Affinity - as an alternative, albeit not same, there is Gravit that might have potential. I reckon between GIMP, Inkscape, Affinity (not free mind), Paint.Net and Gravit - (Scribus somewhat too) there are alternatives. As for Web Page design... not sure.
Thanks for all the comments everyone - Gravit doesn't look too bad, the controls seem more intuitive for me, which means they're probably be hopeless for everyone else! :D
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
I'm not sure what all the fuss is about, to be honest. OK, Affinity is not free, but neither is Xara. If you bought Xara's latest iteration and there are no further updates, it can still be used, providing that Magix/Xara do the decent thing and provide a furure-proof user key to all current license holders.
Once Xara goes the way of all flesh, a new product will be the only choice - if updates to new features are desired, so CorelDraw and Affinity are the only realistic choices unless the unpleasant prospect of a subscription service might be considered a realistic option for the more affluent among us. Corel already costs an arm and several legs, so Affinity is pretty much a no-brainer. If I remember correctly, Serif used to produce a web design product, Webplus 8, I believe. So there is that option, too. Who knows, the Affinity marque may soon cover the web option, too. Even if Xara survives, it isn't cheap to keep up with hypothetical updates beyond what has already been paid for. Perhaps now is a realistic time to cut the umbilical cord.
I would not give up on Affinity, it's pretty cheap, their future looks bright, they even have a roadmap for Christ's sake! A little pain in adjusting to their ways of working may be the best option in future.
But hey, who knows? Xara may surprise us all and release regular and prolific updates, the powers that be might deign to let TG members know what their plans are and we will all live happily ever after in a world where there is peace and goodwill to all. But you would not bet on any of the above.
Bob.
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
iamtheblues
I'm not sure what all the fuss is about, to be honest.
Death itself is often not the problem, we'll deal with it when it comes, but the process of dying often is. Then there can be strong feelings of fear, hope, resentment, anger etc. Especially when it concerns a loved one, and Xara's desktop apps are loved by many. Others turn to strategies of denial, run off or look for a substitute.
Ain't life wonderful?! :)
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
Methinks you are applying human attributes to Magix/Xara, but you do know that that is very wide of the mark.
Your feelings of loss are not reciprocated by Magix/Xara I'm afraid.
Bob.
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
I'll just stick at version 12; until xara puts something meaningful and drawing oriented into the desktop pot I'll sit out the game
xara have to move forward somehow, and they are obviously having problems which is a great pity...
also they are embracing a new and totally different market to the one that this forum has up to now represented, and we should not loose sight of that
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
iamtheblues
Methinks you are applying human attributes to Magix/Xara, but you do know that that is very wide of the mark.
Your feelings of loss are not reciprocated by Magix/Xara I'm afraid.
Bob.
My post wasn't about the company, I was talking about TGers sensing that they might have to let go of some much loved apps and doing so in different ways.
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
Gosh - now we get tables and more embeddable javascript thingies.
I am now evaluating the Affinity options. I really don't feel like dealing with the learning curve, and Xara products work for us at the moment, but I really feel that the investment in learning something else at this point is warranted, since the updates to the product seem to cost so much for so little. I will keep using Xara in the form we already have it, but there is little chance that I will bne be upgrading our 3 licenses any time soon unless there is a serious shift in how new features are released and how relevant they are.
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
I am sticking to v12 as well for the moment (also because I still cannot load my current images in v15), but am currently looking into Affinity as well. Problem is that I have a lot of stuff that has to be converted to a new format but I am willing to take that step now.
I am not afraid of the learning path though, I have been able to learn software fast enough in the past. Xara will become my - sort of - backup plan.
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
I am now convinced it is time to jump ship with Xara. I feel bad for those that don't see it. Stop waiting for the magic move or the "OMG, they finally heard us." fantasy. It ain't going to happen. Grab Affinity or whatever and move on.
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
Hello folks,
I am software veteran that has seen how Adobe and Symantec and many others acquired many fine programs, and essentially buried them after a short period. I am afraid Magix might follow suit as has been said here. It seems Magix management has acquired some technology to set up a fancy web design platform. It may well be that desktop programs will be neglected and forgotten. However, Xara Designer is a great program as is for the time being (I have X11 Pro), and I am going to enjoy using it for some years to come (without any plan to upgrade or switch to something new). Let's concentrate on the positive side of things: Xara Designer is a mature program that has lots of uses. Que sera, sera!
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
Back in the day of Xara Xtreme, the program was fast, slick, reasonably priced and unbeatable in terms of other available software on the graphics software market.
Subsequently however, with the addition of web design features and the involvement of Magix it has become feature rich to excess, at the expense of speed and is now
subject to unexpected glitches and other problems related to the relentless pressure to provide what many here at TG regard as unwanted bloatware.
All the bells and whistles that are bolted on to the original program are basically window dressing.
I know I am not alone in hoping for a Xara design program that was stripped of the web content and the downloadable cloud stuff that is of no interest to many here.
The Dear Xara section contains oft-repeated requests for germane additions to the graphic design side such as:-
a decent bitmap tracer,
improved Open Type support,
vector brushes,
improved Mold Tool,
Smart Guides,
improved vector 3D,
vector mesh fill,
Vector distort tools...
Nothing of value has been added to the drawing tools area for many years now. Sadly neglected.
Xara Designer has become a Swiss Army Knife of a program, a Jack-of-all-trades, if you will.
The other half of the Jack-of-all-trades phrase is Master of None and sadly that is what the program has become.
Along with other contributors here, I have become disillusioned with the Xara/Magix combo and also with the lack of any meaningful involvement by them on Talk Graphics.
I am now more reliant on Affinity for all my needs and still use Illustrator CS6 and CorelDraw. Designer Pro 12 is where I shall stay until most of the requested feature improvements materialise.
I have exhausted all I have to say with regard to Xara's future. They will either sink or swim and it matters not to me whichever happens.
Bob.
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
@iamtheblues - +1.
@Xara - time out for a period and write down all the truly innovative things Xara delivered in the day. They were truly groundbreaking. Vector. Sub-pixel anti-aliasing. Zero-byte image copies. Fractals. WYSIWYG positioning...
I even include the smarts around MouseOff and MouseOver layers and web page delivery. Web, however, has become a distraction.
Templates are fine but they are mainly single use and of limited value to a designer.
You have all but parked DTP, limping in with "tables".
Now I believe I am a web designer and not an artist but these are your two main Customers.
Why fragment your products into so many by dicing and slicing the UI controls over the same codebase?
I propose you aim for two products: web and design. Your flagship should have both with a UI that toggles out features not needed based on the document type.
The entry point would be the design application, without web, that handles vector, bitmap and font.
Oh, and blocking on-line content is just petty.
You have traded out your innovative legacy as a hostage to fortune.
Acorn
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
The latest email from Matt at Xara proves to me that they are focusing on the Cloud portion of their product.The Line Spacing controls and the SVG support are better in the Cloud version than in the PC version that I paid a truckload for. I can see where this is going since I've experienced the exact same thing with Adobe. I think that the writing is on the wall unless they prove otherwise.
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Re: xara.com getting even further from the Xara DEsigner products?
The problem is that it had to be ended like this, TG was a good initiation which involved the customers in the developments, both sides benefited by that.
Also the atmosphere was great, warm and friendly but it is just the past, there are these professional marketing answers now that och the tables are long waited and we listen and implemented. But in the background I am sure the people know in the company that it is just playing the role to have the profit, which is the interest of everyone there.
It is a bit the tragedy of capitalism, no real listening and answering, but pretending both ones as need to keep the illusion that the client is the king. While the truth is that after 4:00 PM or something people going home and who cares about it