Did you know... III

Xara Tip of the Day:

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You can copy the fill colour from the selected object to any other object. Drag the 'current fill colour' patch from the left end of the Colour Line onto an object.

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Now this is very useful.
Xara doesn't cover it in its Help file.

Nor does it mention you can use Drag to bring the Line fill colour across.

Nor does it mention the Start and Stop colours of a Fill can be dragged.

Nor does it mention you can drop any of the dragged colours onto a Line of another Shape.

Nor does it mention you can do the same with the patches in the Colour Editor (top right).

Acorn

xara help is basic...

I learn't this by experimenting all those years ago....

good to point it out

Also learned most of these features from... just being around long enough and experimentation. Yes Acorn, Xara is full of great tricks & methods & systems... even if Xara/Magix doesn't let one know. (Go figure :-O )

I monitor the valid beefs you & others have and don't disagree. The thing that puzzles me most is that if XARA/MAGIX focused, refined and promoted and supported XDesigner Desktop & its users, I believe
they would OWN the market... worldwide. I wonder who the powers that be over there are, and why they can't see that XD is a one-of-a-kind app and it 'COULD' easily compete with and far surpass
90% of the competitive market... even Affinity.

I just do not understand their lack of vision. You can't imagine how many times I'm asked, "what software did you use to do that"?.... because they can't do what I do IN ANY of their apps.
And for MAC users, their face drops because they can't use it. I have never shown here most of what I do with XD because it's proprietary stuff... But they can't figure out how I can mock-up so many
different types things, so fast, and upload. And when they're viewing, how I have notes popping up, and animated arrows pointing to specific things and on and on. How I can have them look at a section
that needs changing and all they do is click on it, and a corrected graphical version pops up right above it in place showing them exactly what is would look like. (pop-up layers)

And I get that XARA is jumping on the 'online' 'sharing' 'team' 'branding' design format— following the infinite numbers of existing ones and new ones popping up everyday. Maybe they COULD create a great
online app? But they will NEVER be GREATER than many of the big ones out there that are doing it very well. They will just become one of the pack and do battle for users. But they COULD OWN
the desktop market of millions if they had enough drive, understanding and vision... which sadly, and obviously, they do not.

I use Xara-Cloud (very little if any) and have used and subscribed to at least three of the top ones out there. (yeah, they all some clever tricks) But I have always had an 'unstable' feeling using them. There's
just something about OWNING, on MY PUTER a piece of software that I take care of. There's a tangible feeling there... I feel solid on desktop apps. No damn servers! No damn wifi! Just me, my puter & software.

Anyway... It's just that is a damn shame... yes sir, a damn shame.

Oh well, ya takes what get and makes the best outta it!

(my being bored Corona rant)

Cliff

Cliff, I couldn't agree more. Every piece of graphic/photo software I use, whilst using it, I think I could do this easier and faster in Xara, it's generally more intuitive and includes most of the capabilities of the other programmes.

yes well..... assuming what you say is true cliff, the boat has nevertheless sailed, it is too late in the day

and there are so many things xara designer cannot do, and so if you need these things, then you are going to look at it differently; if you don't and all you do is covered by the program, then fair enough

for example xara does not do:

winding rule options
outline position options [outside-midway-inside] - this is often a real time waster
it's animation is basic [and that's being kind]
it's bitmap handling capabilities are tailored !00% towards non-destructive editing, which is actually limiting in many respects
it does not do greyscale colour space
it's cmyk is a pain to use [this may be a bit personal]

mock-ups is what xara does very well indeed [as long as you don't want CAD accuracy] - but in a project there is so much more; the hare does not always win the race

My tuppence-worth is the Xara Desktop application allows the designer to be creative; the more it focuses on SmartShapes, it detracts from that design seed growing.
Cliff is productive and in certain markets that wins. I create something the hard way. I learn from it and the second is very structured. Thereafter my designs ease back and become innate.
Perhaps others do not have the patience to learn these days?

Acorn

I could say I designed my own desktop computer, it would be a valid thing to say; but I know it would be more accurate to say that I assembled it - I chose the mainboard, the processor, the memory, the graphics card, the sound card, etc... but because I did not build these, I did not design a computer in the real sense.. it is constrained by the design parameters that were chosen by the manufacturers of those components

this is the way I see design in the sense of XDA is going... the artist in me might say 'painting by numbers' but that is likely unfair

my computer is tailored by me for the jobs I need to do, and similarly you can design a very effective print document or website using templates and smart shapes and widgets etc, designed and put together by others.... but none of this is seat of the pants design like when I built audio circuits from scratch using op amps and transisitors [and when in short pants, valves[tubes]]

what I think cliff likes is the ability to do seat of the pants design in xara very quickly - it is why I like programs that enable me to freehand draw in the same way as I would on paper which is my seat of the pants design methodology most of the time

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Originally Posted by handrawn

I could say I designed my own desktop computer, it would be a valid thing to say; but I know it would be more accurate to say that I assembled it - I chose the mainboard, the processor, the memory, the graphics card, the sound card, etc... but because I did not build these, I did not design a computer in the real sense.. it is constrained by the design parameters that were chosen by the manufacturers of those components

this is the way I see design in the sense of XDA is going... the artist in me might say 'painting by numbers' but that is likely unfair

my computer is tailored by me for the jobs I need to do, and similarly you can design a very effective print document or website using templates and smart shapes and widgets etc, designed and put together by others.... but none of this is seat of the pants design like when I built audio circuits from scratch using op amps and transisitors [and when in short pants, valves[tubes]]

what I think cliff likes is the ability to do seat of the pants design in xara very quickly - it is why I like programs that enable me to freehand draw in the same way as I would on paper which is my seat of the pants design methodology most of the time

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With you on this. What's not to like build an amp with an EF86 and pretending the hum had actually decreased?

Acorn

you got the edge on me there, I only ever built line-in power amps with valves, KT66/EL34, hum could still be an issue with though, darn earth loops... by the time I progressed from crystal to low output magnetic coil pickup it was solid state preamps

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Originally Posted by handrawn

my computer is tailored by me for the jobs I need to do, and similarly you can design a very effective print document or website using templates and smart shapes and widgets etc, designed and put together by others.... but none of this is seat of the pants design like when I built audio circuits from scratch using op amps and transisitors [and when in short pants, valves[tubes]]

what I think cliff likes is the ability to do seat of the pants design in xara very quickly - it is why I like programs that enable me to freehand draw in the same way as I would on paper which is my seat of the pants design methodology most of the time

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A couple of thoughts if I'm following you and Acorn... sort of. It's tough though because you two have a particularly well developed thought process with an excellent ability to express yourselves well—hard for the 'average' joe to keep up with or even partake... In other words... you two be scary!

But anyway, here goes, you don't scare me! And this won't be long. :D

1) I have noticed something over the years here on TG - (doesn't take a genius to see) the change/transition that has REALLY upset the veteran/artists. I'm just gonna talk 'big picture', no reasons/details why or whatever. What my simple mind has noticed (as the big picture) was the Xara movement from what was, and what it could have been as a purely fantastic vector drawing/design program. I remember (and still have) the very early promo's of Xara and how the emphasis was on vector and the power of, and the crazy zooming ability of, and the drawing tools of, etc., the program.

2) So the evolution began... Web design, more talk about desktop publishing, less and less about vector design and the improvement of the vector tools as well as never any new vector drawing tools.
(Why this occurred, is not up for my discussion) For this moment, it is what it is.... So...

From MY perspective and needs... your loss (artists) is my gain. I'm just being pragmatic. I have a problem. I need to make a living. I need tools that help me do that. Xara has developed into one of the most useful (of course far from the wish list) programs I've ever used to help me with those needs.

And yes Handrawn I do like the "seat of the pants" design Xara allows me to do. But (good) templates, smart shapes, widgets etc. do not make for a decent finished produce. (Of course I know you know this) We all know some really ugly stuff can be created with the Xara tools. There is some sense of design & creativity needed to use them to their fullest capabilities to create an end product (one that can be $old).

So yes, I feel for the artists here (wish I was one - jealous of your abilities) but please, take this the right way... I don't give a hoot about your Xara problems... or I should say, I care as much about your Xara problems as you cared about mine over the years... (Not being nasty here - and hesitated to write that) I'm just trying to make a point. Simply put... If Xara did a total 360 tomorrow and focused 95% on developing the vector drawing tools for artists and began pulling back all the web stuff and document publishing stuff and put ME out in the cold, hhhhmm me thinks the artists around here would be doing a jig and not giving me a seconds thought... C'mon, admit it... admit it.

One last thing...handrawn; when you were "building audio circuits from scratch", weren't those op amps, transistors, valves, tubes, boards, and whatever you used to "build from scratch" the templates and smart shapes and widgets you needed to "build form scratch"? You didn't build THEM, did you?

Well, anyway, I don't know at this point if I even made any coherent points/thoughts... I normally don't converse too much in forums because I always get into trouble. (haven't mastered the art of forum dialogue)
It's the Corona Cabin Fever that has be opening my mouth. (and hoping I didn't stick my foot in it)

With respect

Cliff

Oh yeah, I have my gripes and a many frustrations with the app... but another skill I've learned to develop is the 'work-around' skill. (shame I even have to say that)

Cliff I personally couldn't agree more with what you and the others that have posted on this thread.

I try real hard and do the best I can so lets just leave it at that.

Hi Cliff

I'll take the last point first:

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One last thing...handrawn; when you were "building audio circuits from scratch", weren't those op amps, transistors, valves, tubes, boards, and whatever you used to "build from scratch" the templates and smart shapes and widgets you needed to "build form scratch"? You didn't build THEM, did you?

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no indeed - but you can take that argument right down to the atomic [or subatomic level] - everything is made of something else; the point was about design in the creative sense - you can only be creative in a limited sense with a building block that has a specific purpose, the more specific the purpose the more limited you are; for example when assembling a computer the graphics card will only do what it was designed by someone else to do, wheras if you built your own from components it would have whatever capability you designed into it

I could use clip art a lot - I don't partly because someone would notice, but more to the point, I would think it at best lazy, at worst cheating, I prefer to make my own asset; that is not to say it is all 100% original and most things that look realistic have to have a reference, but it has to have a unique style; style is crucial; if you are an artist in the sense that I am, and someone else cannot tell your work apart from another's just by looking at it, you have no style, and quite possibly no work

I don't see this in websites... sure they can [should] have style, but can you point to a website and say - that was made by XYZ just by looking at it? I don't think so, because that is not what they are about, but I may be wrong...

moving on...

the other point I was trying to make is that Xara has gone down the route it has for solid commercial reasons - there is little point, at this stage anyway, in 'adding new vector tools' because it won't make them the money they need - there is too much competition out there now, the world has changed, the options widened considerably... and so like all good companies [and artists :)] they are concentrating on what they see as their future in a way that will give them an edge - find a niche, exploit it... hence xara cloud...

I chucked all notions of 'one program does it all' just about the time the back of my ears dried out graphically speaking - but that is not to say that programs such as XDA are not useful, it is, but it is just one tool in the box for me

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Originally Posted by handrawn

yes well..... assuming what you say is true cliff, the boat has nevertheless sailed, it is too late in the day

and there are so many things xara designer cannot do, and so if you need these things, then you are going to look at it differently; if you don't and all you do is covered by the program, then fair enough

for example xara does not do:

winding rule options
outline position options [outside-midway-inside] - this is often a real time waster
it's animation is basic [and that's being kind]
it's bitmap handling capabilities are tailored !00% towards non-destructive editing, which is actually limiting in many respects
it does not do greyscale colour space
it's cmyk is a pain to use [this may be a bit personal]

mock-ups is what xara does very well indeed [as long as you don't want CAD accuracy] - but in a project there is so much more; the hare does not always win the race

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I typically use the outliner instead of line. I think my brain just thinks that way as it is. I think my biggest gripe with Xara is really a complaint with Illustrator in that they haven't kept up with Adobe's file format at all, making loading up anything exported as AI basically garbage. I expect some stuff to be broken as that's Adobe's entire business model: Use it's position as 'standard' knowing people are forced to use it in many cases and lock everyone out by constantly changing file format, creating an artificial paywall, but even programs like GIMP can keep up moderately well with the Photoshop format as long as you don't use any very specific GIMP effects.

I ran into issue recently where I needed to work with someone using Illustrator and neither program loads SVG worth a damn. If I recall correctly, at least Xara can kinda load/export SVG, but Illustrator was just ignorant to the format completely, hilariously so, since that's a web standard format. Gotta love business practices and trying to force people to a format. I wish Imaging and video formats would just agree on format like the audio industry basically has. Everything can load MIDI, WAV and AIFF, allowing anyone to recreate a project in any other software. But nope, it's gotta be a PITA for vector...either you just export rasters and continue on from there, or...?????

Competition creates headaches for us on the user end and really the competition is workflow and features, not format.

I use PDF format to export vector from xara - it works fine for solid colour vector, gradients and transparency have issues - this is as much to do with xara being proprietary in the way it does these things, as adobe

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Originally Posted by handrawn

Hi Cliff

you can take that argument right down to the atomic [or subatomic level] - everything is made of something else; the point was about design in the creative sense - you can only be creative in a limited sense with a building block that has a specific purpose, the more specific the purpose the more limited you are; for example when assembling a computer the graphics card will only do what it was designed by someone else to do, whereas if you built your own from components it would have whatever capability you designed into it

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Excellent! I DO have an answer LOL, but I would just be trying to be smart. Points taken.

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Originally Posted by handrawn

I could use clip art a lot - I don't partly because someone would notice, but more to the point, I would think it at best lazy, at worst cheating.

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You callin' me lazy? You callin' me a cheater? LOL — handrawn, some of us just don't have the natural talents of others and have to do what we have to do. I know you understand this and I thoroughly understand your very valid philosophy regard the integrity of your work.

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Originally Posted by handrawn

the other point I was trying to make is that Xara has gone down the route it has for solid commercial reasons - there is little point, at this stage anyway, in 'adding new vector tools' because it won't make them the money they need - there is too much competition out there now, the world has changed, the options widened considerably... and so like all good companies [and artists :)] they are concentrating on what they see as their future in a way that will give them an edge - find a niche, exploit it... hence xara cloud...

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Well said!

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Originally Posted by handrawn

I use PDF format to export vector from xara - it works fine for solid colour vector, gradients and transparency have issues - this is as much to do with xara being proprietary in the way it does these things, as adobe

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That's my gripe...SVG is open. Yet Xara and Illustrator (and other vector programs) ignore it entirely. It's MIDI for resolution independence and nothing except Inkscape even gives it any thought. While I don't think SVG format is as good as how Xara handles things like feathering (SVG does it very VERY differently, as 'blur'), I think Xara could benefit from adjusting it's engine to accommodate SVG standard. It's web friendly, it's non proprietary (like PDF), works on web and basically how Xara's engine works would only need minor tweaking in a sense.

But hey, I don't run a business so what do I know...*cough*MIDI&WAVEISSUPPORTEDBYEVERYEQUIPMENT MANUFACTURERANDSOFTWAREVENDORANDEVERYONEISHAPPY*co ugh*

Did I mention that business hurts the artist?

@ cmpan1

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Excellent! I DO have an answer LOL, but I would just be trying to be smart. Points taken.

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:D any given argument is only valid for a given frame of reference - there is no such thing as a frame of reference that covers everything no matter what; there are some that have never so far been shown to be wrong, but that is not the same thing as saying they will always being right ;)

@ hseiken

I would hope/expect that xara cloud adopts the SVG standard at least :)

I am not in a position to know how big a 'tweak' it would be, I have not seen the code

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Did I mention that business hurts the artist?

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I suggest then you never try script-writing :eek:>:)

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Originally Posted by handrawn

I suggest then you never try script-writing :eek:>:)

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What kind of script writing? Like copy-writing for sites? Done that. I'm not sure I have a soul any longer. Do you mean scripting language for computing? I know multiple. I re-iterate I'm not sure I have a soul any more. :P

I mean script-writing, eg:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/writersroom/wr...ing-essentials

;)