Why I may abandon Xara

Under another name, Xara is product that I helped to develop, via the original beta program, long before you sold it to Corel, then got it back again. I always thought it was an absolutely brilliant idea, and have stuck with it from then to now.

However, I am so disappointed with the path taken concerning the on-line version, that I am seriously considering jumping ship. The reason for this is the subscription model. Please don’t tell me I can use the freebie version, as something that forces me to advertise your product is not free at all. I would happily buy a mobile/ iPad version of Xara Web Designer and/or other products for a one-off fixed fee, and might upgrade periodically, if what was offered looked useful to me. But I will not ‘rent’ software at any price, for the simple reasons that 1) if I don’t use it for a couple of months, I am still paying for that time, and 2) Web-based products are entirely at the discretion of the company, and obviously out of reach in the event of an outage.

I would, therefore, ask you to reconsider offering iPad friendly versions, at one time prices. If not, then regretfully, I will be looking elsewhere. For example, Wolf Website Designer 2, which offers a lot for a reasonable price.

Nathan Brazil

There has been many similar comments. Xara appears to be at a crossroads at the moment and nobody is quite sure which way they plan to go.

I've been on board starting from when Corel "agreed" to market Xara. I too hope they find their focus and that focus is on the product.

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Originally Posted by gwpriester

There has been many similar comments. Xara appears to be at a crossroads at the moment and nobody is quite sure which way they plan to go..

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I see no good reason why Xara can’t offer a stand alone, one time payment iPad version of products, perhaps with IAP extras, but full functionality included, and a pay-as-you go version of the same for those who like that kind of thing.

If there is an iPad version, then Xara should recognise the market, and price it at a similar level to other highly competent graphics apps already available, such a Affinity. Trying to squeeze desktop prices from IOS is another recipe for disaster. Indeed, there is a case for offering a significant discount to existing customers who have bought desktop versions of Xara products.

As you probably know, there was at one time some development of a Unix and Mac OS version of the product. But the economies were not there and development never went any farther.

I just don't think there is any interest there.

Does the online version of Xara work with the iPad?

It is strange to think such a good product was not considered viable in a Mac OSX version, given that it was and to a large extent still is the preferred platform for designers.

As for the on-line version of Xara working on an iPad. Presumably it does, but to be honest I have zero interest in trying something that brands whatever I do, unless I pay a subscription fee!

As the mighty Slade sang “Nothing can change the shape of things to come.” Perhaps the future of web design for those of us who object to renting software, is not with Xara. Their choice whether to alienate people who have been supportive for many years, or be reasonable.

as you may know having been around a long time, because of decisions made very early on and therefore the way the xara code is written it would need a major rewrite to port to mac - there may well not be available resource for that at this time

xara is a business, they will do what they think is best, and take what opportunities they see, for their business to survive in a changing market

unless we are inside the loop that is difficult to argue against from a commercial point of view, even if on a personal level we find it not to our liking...

to be brutally honest I reckon if losing old customers is out-weighed by gaining a lot of new ones, then the business heads in magix/xara will lose no sleep; that is par for the course in commerce...

While taking your point, and understanding the economics, I seriously doubt that trying to shovel people into what the bean counters only guess as the best direction will prove massively profitable.

There is an on-line version of Xara already in existence. So the real question is whether the company wants to sell licenses for that version, on a one payment covers everything basis, or do they want to continue to push a subscription model where customers never own anything.

An on-line version that was fully functional, and stayed that way, giving me the choice as to whether I want to buy future versions, is something I’d be very keen to see. Otherwise, as I said earlier, there is already a pretty good alternative in Wolf Web Designer 2.

it seems clear to me that Xara Cloud is being driven towards the corporate team based market; by and large companies are not so adverse to the subscription model, seeing the advantage of always being up to date and consistent across the team base, as more important

it's not my problem specifically as I do not use Xara Cloud; but as far as the desktop program goes I have made sure I can do everything I [prefer to] do in Xara in other program[s] just in case... be a pity, but life is short...

Alas, I fear that you are probably correct. Xara, built on individual appreciation, headed toward corporate sales. A pity, as the company could do both. It reminds me of Apple, who used to accomplish great things, and now sell phones. (-:

There are some features which Xara products just do better and easier than other apps, and so I expect to continue using those desktop versions I bought. No upgrades required. As for web design, the app I named before, Wolf, is very similar to Xara, and clearly the makers see a gap in the market.

Handrawn is correct here. Just to clarify, Xara Cloud is nothing like the desktop products or any products found in the app store. It is very much a separate venture that is aimed at the corporate market. It's Cloud-based so will naturally will have a subscription model.

We're still actively developing our desktop products. Version 16.2 is soon about to be released with more features and bug fixes.

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Version 16.2 is soon about to be released with more features and bug fixes

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thanks for that Rob ;)

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Originally Posted by Nathan Brazil

...Apple, who used to accomplish great things, and now sell phones.

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sales now slipping as market saturates it would seem... nothing lasts forever...

So why not develop an IOS based model of Xara web designer? Wolf Web Designer is pretty much there, but obviously cannot open my Xara desktop files. Is it that Xara just does not put any value on Apples App Store and Google Play Apps for Android?

I don't know personally, I can only assume it was deemed not to be as profitable for the work involved.

The engine behind Xara is OS independent so it's possible to make a MacOS version, but still a heck of work would be required to do so. I supposed they figured the a cloud route would be a better direction.

Designing websites on mobile and tablet devices is rather... niche.

So the sense of this I am getting, is that Xara management believe the most profit can be derived from serving corporate needs, and there is not enough profit for them to cater for an on-line version or tablet based version capable of reading desktop files?

While I take your point of tablet design being niche, I think it worth pointing out that Adobe, among others, have acknowledged the mobile market and are gradually starting to equip that workspace. As tablets continue to get faster, with more storage, it will not be long before anything that can be done on the desktop can also be done on a tablet. The one caveat being that mouse support really needs to be introduced.

Xara Cloud can read desktop website project files and make edits / additions to them, but I would say it's a secondary feature to its main purpose (i.e. we've not put as much development time in editing website project files as the business document editor).

I suspect Adobe has the resources to venture into that sort of market. I'd be interested to see where tablets are in the next few years, as I understand it Tablet sales have been gradually slowing recently.

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Originally Posted by Rob-Xar

I don't know personally, I can only assume it was deemed not to be as profitable for the work involved.

The engine behind Xara is OS independent so it's possible to make a MacOS version, but still a heck of work would be required to do so. I supposed they figured the a cloud route would be a better direction...

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Which is what Serif decided to do and they are eating the market as an alternative to, well, most all lower-cost, perpetually licensed applications.

However, I doubt they will enter the web-building market again. At least directly aimed at web sites. I suspect ePubs will be added in upcoming versions and likely HTML5 publications.

This is the route Quark took--the HTML5 publications. The next version features FLEX control. The videos look very promising as one can then build micro-sites that will automatically adapt to screens no matter the size and resolution of the viewing device.

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Originally Posted by Rob-Xar

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I suspect Adobe has the resources to venture into that sort of market. I'd be interested to see where tablets are in the next few years, as I understand it Tablet sales have been gradually slowing recently.

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Serif is also a small company with limited resources. They seem to make the dual-OS work for them.

The Mac market has remained fairly stable in comparison to PCs. Just like tablets may be a small number in comparison to desktops. However, it's still a bazillion devices and a share of that market is still sizable.

Well, then it may not be a question of resources? What I mean is, Xara Cloud can read desktop files, so the thought must be there to do more.

As for tablet sales slowing, so are desktop sales as the market divides itself. This is perhaps one case where the more diversity there is, the more sales.

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Originally Posted by mwenz

Serif is also a small company with limited resources. They seem to make the dual-OS work for them.

The Mac market has remained fairly stable in comparison to PCs. Just like tablets may be a small number in comparison to desktops. However, it's still a bazillion devices and a share of that market is still sizable.

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You raise an interesting and valid point. There are many thousand developers for IOS that are much, much smaller than Xara. Okay, the majority probably don’t have much overheads, but the principle is there. Small does not necessarily mean not worth doing. Also, as you right point out, there are many millions of tablet devices, and a growing community of creative types keen to buy good gear.

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Originally Posted by Rob-Xar

I don't know personally, I can only assume it was deemed not to be as profitable for the work involved.

The engine behind Xara is OS independent so it's possible to make a MacOS version, but still a heck of work would be required to do so. I supposed they figured the a cloud route would be a better direction.

Designing websites on mobile and tablet devices is rather... niche.

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I would love to see a Linux Version,

wtih darktable, gimp, softmaker office, krita, i could switch.
only for Xara there is by faaaaaar no substitute ;-)

but that is another story.

Yes, a Linux version would be interesting. Sadly, if the bean counters can’t see a profit in making a version that works on tens of millions of iPads, then Linux will also be out in the cold. Brrrrrrrrrrr. (-:

maybe it's nothing to do with 'bean counters' [whatever they be now] maybe its more to do with not being able to do everything at once....

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Designing websites on mobile and tablet devices is rather... niche

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:D

This too, is a possibility. However, getting back to my original issue, there has already been time to create an on-line version. There is presumably no impediment to this working on mobile platforms via browsers. So the only remaining problem is the subscription model.

well xara's attitude so far in the threads I have participated in has been along the lines of 'if you need it you'll renew - if you don't you won't, that is your decision'

I don't see that changing....

Which brings us rather neatly back to the original post...;)

Subscriptions and cloud based services go hand in hand, if anything because of the direct infrastructure and hosting costs.

can't argue with that Rob - can't think offhand of a cloud based service I have that does not

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Originally Posted by iamtheblues

Which brings us rather neatly back to the original post...;)

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I do love circuitous arguments Bob [I may have said this before... :)]

That is not the most customer friendly approach I’ve encountered. (-: But no different to so many others. When people are needed to help make an app, they’re of interest, but once the individual no longer matters much... it’s our choice. Even when we are trying very hard to BUY something.

Oh well, I will still be using my older Xara desktop apps, not upgrading anymore as what turns up is usually not that revolutionary. A bit like having invented the wheel, there are only so many better versions you can make. As for iPad design, I’m buying Wolf, and that feels quite good, like going back to the start, but with a lot of the features that I enjoy in Xara Web Designer.

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Originally Posted by Nathan Brazil

I’m buying Wolf

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What is that?

as I understand it this:

https://wolf.aidaluu.com/

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Originally Posted by handrawn

as I understand it this:

https://wolf.aidaluu.com/

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Thank you. I'll pass on that!

well I don't have a mac nor an ipad and I don't build websites.. so I guess me neither...

I may be wrong, but I thought webmasters invested a lot of time in a particular set of software and switching to something else would be difficult if not cause for serious lack of sleep - that would certainly be the case for me if I had to switch from using Toon Boom Harmony or SAI

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Originally Posted by handrawn

well I don't have a mac nor an ipad and I don't build websites.. so I guess me neither...

I may be wrong, but I thought webmasters invested a lot of time in a particular set of software and switching to something else would be difficult if not cause for serious lack of sleep - that would certainly be the case for me if I had to switch from using Toon Boom Harmony or SAI

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It all depends. For simpler sites it's not so critical, but if you've made a site with one product, you can't make a simple mod with another.

I once met a developer that hand-coded their sites.

8 months ago I bought 'Touchbase Form Builder' from Aidaluu. There were a lot of quirks in the UI but it produced smart results. The major problem was it wouldn't work with Captcha if the form was embedded, nor would it save a project file if there was more than 1 column. There was also a ton of annoying things like the font list not being alphabetical and repeating random sections of fonts.

I emailed Aidaluu listing the two major problems and made another list of 'would be nice if'. They replied thanking me for the suggestions and that was that. 2 months later nothing had changed and I uninstalled. I also had a 2 minute look at their email designer but didn't get past the phrase 'monthly subscription'.

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Originally Posted by pauland

... I once met a developer that hand-coded their sites.

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I used to hand code all mine ... 20+ years ago ... however what HTML was capable of was much different then. Now, it's just not feasible.

I can empathise with that... when I think of what I can do with harmony node system as opposed to 'hand drawn' cells I used to do [there's a surprise :D]

hmm... �� Well, I don't know how well it would work, but if in the same position as the OP, I would install Xara Pro X locally on a strong PC and remotely access it with a pad, mac, or whatever -- your own self-hosted cloud! ��

I access my server with my android a lot, and everything works great... just like having Windows 10 and Windows Server 2016 both on my android at the same time.

... and Speedtest.net... mm mm mmm. Over 300 Mbps up and down, easy!