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Welcome guys
Earl I have done some more work to the dragon since the last render.
I have no idea what happened to the texture on the left eye as opposed to the right as it looks like the texture has slipped but the eyeball is an exact copy of the right hand side and just moved down the x axis,could it be lighting that has made ths unwelcome effect?
I am thinking of re doing the dragon skin texture actually to get a better sort of result.
I want hyperish realism guys all comments welcome,let me have it [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Stu.
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Welcome guys
Earl I have done some more work to the dragon since the last render.
I have no idea what happened to the texture on the left eye as opposed to the right as it looks like the texture has slipped but the eyeball is an exact copy of the right hand side and just moved down the x axis,could it be lighting that has made ths unwelcome effect?
I am thinking of re doing the dragon skin texture actually to get a better sort of result.
I want hyperish realism guys all comments welcome,let me have it [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Stu.
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Well, I'll wait until I see the next render with your latest texture on it. However, I would stress details. Details are definitely what make a texture look great. Scars, rough marks, distinguishing marks, etc. The dragon texture should NOT be symmetrical, although it can have symmetrical aspects (such as a tiger's face). You have a lot of freedom as to how you want it to look. I'm envisioning now a really awesome looking 'tiger' like dragon, with scales that are not just one solid color or shade. In fact, I think I'll be adding a little of that aspect to my own dragon...giving her some off-color highlights, similiar to stripes.
Some surface properties which can really add life to the dragon are specularity (with bump maps), and a very slight and very fine tweaked reflectivity. What I mean by that is using some sort of real world Fresnel shader, so the reflectivity changes depending on the incidence angle. Then apply the same bump map as an alpha to the reflectivity so it is only apparent on the peaks of the bumps, and you could really get an awesome effect for scales.
Again...just something to play around with. It's a lot harder to get it to look right than my little paragraph describes.
By the way: the dragon that I'll hopefully be working on again soon is a she. And she's actually a significant character is a storyline. She has a name, though I'm not going to reveal any details until I'm posting her. Anyhow I'd love to hear background info on your dragon if you'd like.
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I chucked the back of the head and only kept a few bits because it was going to be to difficult to get the effect I wanted,so I start modelling anew.
I am beginning to wonder if halving the object and using symmetry is such a great idea for when I come to texturing as everything painted on one side gets mirrored to the other.
I am learning lots about modelling but I still cant pull off the shape I want.
I only just realized I could use alphas in the way you described above.I think some planning is now in order instead of crash bang as usual [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
My Dragon I have decided I want to be different,the angle I am going too look for now is old battle worn and wise,I also want to create a kind of scene where it looks like the old one is passing knowledge to the younger ones somehow {groan more dragons} I am going to call it Clan Dragon.
I need to study texturing a lot more closely there is still truckloads that I dont know yet [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Do you have any links for those Dragon images you mentioned I looked last night and couldnt find any I would call suitable for what I want,and I dont want to cannabalise someone elses creation just get some ideas for wings in particular.I want wings that look anatomically correct,that actually look like they could fold in and out as opposed to fold to a point and would break like I have seen before.My problem is I am a perfectionist [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
I have a Dragon drawing somewhere that I painted I will dig it up for you,it has a really good head so I might have to look at using it myself yet.
Stu.
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I found that painting [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Stu.
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That painting is great Stu! Did you paint that by hand, or using computer painting programs? Either way I like it [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] I'd definitely look into doing more drawings/paintings...just rough sketches, to play around with ideas for the look and shape of your head. It's easy to go back and forth between ideas, and sometimes, due to modeling limitations, it's not possible to go back and forth between those styles with your actual model (not without starting over on a whole new one). Anyhow, that's my suggestion. I don't have a lot of time at the moment, but I'll try to find some links to those dragon pictures I mentioned before. If I can't find them, I'll scan some that I have here locally done by Jeff Easley (perhaps I can e-mail them to you since it would be a copyright violation [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] ). I'll post some more once I get off work.
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Thanks Earl.
I did the original sketch of that Dragon quite a few years ago before I had a computer,then when I got Photoshop I decided to see what I could do with it,I used mainly the airbrush and the smudge tool.
Some prelim sketches are a good idea.Are you pretty handy with a pencil yourself?,if not I will pass on the thumb nails if you like.
I did a search under Dungeons and Dragons and Jeff easley and came up with some really good images.Jeff Easley can render amazing dragons,actually I prefer his style to the Dungeons and Dragons style with the more sort of dog or animal type of nose,I wonder if they used a different nose to avoid litigation with Jeff Easley?,anyway I think Easleys style is for me.
I chucked everything and started again and now I have a top jaw that looks excellent,and its not in a symmetry object so the texture map looks a hundred percent better.I had the taper all wrong on the jaw that was why the eyes didnt setup properly and it didnt look quite right.I will post it when I make another jaw,but I think its looking pretty good so far.
Heres my address s.winders@paradise.net.nz
Cheers.
Stu.
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I like this shape and texture a whole lot beter than the original [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
What do you think?
Stu.
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On my monitor the Ivory of the horns is really the colour of old ivory statues.
I also like the way you did break the fearful symmetry. This creates more tensions as something your mind sees at a first glance isn't there.
So now for a 3/4 view, or 3D perspective... I wait with impatience...
[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]
If you don't work against time, time often works for you.
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Cheers Erik.
Its already had quite a bit of tweaking since that image and I am well onto the head itself now.
You wait with impatience and I model with impatience....hahahaaa [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
I have all fingers crossed that the head is the hardest part to model [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
Hows your drawing coming meister Erik?
Stu.
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Hey guys, long time no speaky! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
I like this subject... can't wait to see what comes of it. Ya picked a toughy though huh?! hahaa
Oh ya and...
Anyone who has C4D might wanna check out June's issue of "Computer Arts" magazine. It has lots of stuff using C4D; i.e. a perfect 'review' score & lots of tutes.
Mark...
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You are dead right about tricky Mark [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] I have just chucked another prototype I just cant get the right feel or shape [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
I made a sort of fin/web for around the Dragons head and I tried to optimze the points and I was told not enough memory and I have 400m assigned to Cinema.
Ah well back to the drawing board again,I might take a break from dragons for a few days.
Stu.
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I was goofing and taking a break from Dragons and I came up with this,I thoght it might give you guys a laugh [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
I call it man with hammeroids.
Stu.
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lol, that's good Stu. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
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I work with a guy who looks like that! He has a hard time buying hats [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Regards, Ross
<a href=http://www.designstop.com/>DesignStop.Com</a>
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Thanks Earl.
Ross if your work mate has a head shape like that maybe he could try an ice cream pottle [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
The reason the images head shape is like that is because I couldnt work out how to fix it at this stage [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] But I am gonna keep it and work on it and maybe make him look more uncomfortable and pose him on a toilet,I think that would be original even in the 3d world [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Earl I am finding learning modelling humans gives me more modelling skills for everything else including Dragon [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Ross my sympathies to your work mate also [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Stu.
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I agree completely Stu. Modeling anything complex and organic aids in modeling anything else of that nature. Humans, animals, dragons, birds, aliens, you name it. Even modeling plants can help out. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
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Ok I have finally got a shape for the Dragon that I can live with,and its all made from the original primitive cube [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
This is just the basic shape as I will add fins and scales etc later.
Stu.
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Really an aerodynamic head. Looks very promising and inspiring to me (To get the fun, spend the mon', c'mon c'mon, to Maxon!).
Maxon should hire you as their personal "flagship".
What I also like is the way you put the eyes looking like a human, or any other highly developed mammal. When there is an eye at both sides of the skull, the animal has a wider view, but cannot really "fix" its attention.
Problem: I work mostly with a pressure sensitive tablet and a pen (Wacom Intuos). When I touch the scene in the Cinema Art Demo, the shape I drew jumps away, and the longer I hold, the further it speeds away. This is annoying, and not normal behaviour. There must be a setting of some king, but where? I don't find it.
Another thing: Does anyone of you have, and uses the Smells like Almonds shaders and cares to comment them?
Note: did any of you ever wonder how comes that in ancient China as well as in the European Middle Ages, they represented a dragon as a dinosaur, while the first dinosaurs were only discovered in the nineteenth century?
Coincidence? Hazard? Of course, we won't upset your peaceful sleep, now wouldn't we...? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]
[This message was edited by Erik Heyninck on July 09, 2001 at 07:48.]
[This message was edited by Erik Heyninck on July 09, 2001 at 07:54.]
[This message was edited by Erik Heyninck on July 09, 2001 at 07:59.]
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Hi Stu,
That looks like a fantastic start. Especially as it's one solid object. It definitely has a unique style to it that you can really be creative with. As Erik mentioned, the eyes being so parallel will almost give it a human appearance, very wise and civilized perhaps. The posibilities are quite endless. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
I hope to see more examples along this path!
Erik,
Using tablets with 3d programs presents a simple issue (usually easily fixed). I too have used a Wacom tablet for so long that a mouse looks like a foreign and evil device for manipulating the mind. But, since the tablet is 'absolute' positioning and the mouse is 'relative', 3d programs will interpret them incorrectly and your objects will FLY off the screen into unknown dimensions. There are two ways to correct this. Most 3d programs have (and have had for a long time) support for graphics tablets. All you need to do is find the option for "use graphics tablet" and they'll change over to an absolute curser movement system. Note that if you use a mouse when the program is set to use a tablet it will behave funny (extremely slow movements). The other method is less preferable, but you would have to turn your Intuos tablet into "mouse mode" while using any 3d program that doesn't support tablets. With the Intuos, you can customize the tablet per application, so it will automatically switch to mouse mode when you use whatever 3d application doesn't have support for tablets natively, then it will switch back to normal mode for windows and other applications, etc. This method is still a pain in the butt if you ask me...I know that Cinema 4D XL version 7 demo has support for tablets (first thing I always check for [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] ). It's under the General Settings under the Edit menu.
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I didn't try it out yet, but I did find the preferences and it thinks I found it where you said it would be.
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That would be it. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
It's a shame, cause there's a lot of good 3d programs out there that don't have support for tablets... and for people like me, the programs are tossed away as we'd rather keep our tablet.
Glad ya found it though!
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and thanks to you for reacting. I will buy the Art Suite shortly, and eventually theSLA shaders with it as I only have to pay for one transport then. Unfortunately, once again, one cannot download the software, and I will have to pay 16% of European Value Added Tax.
On the other hand: luckily it comes from within Europe (Germany) as I once bought a plug-in from a company in the US of A, and when it arrived after weeks and weeks at the customs office, I was fined etc for trying not to pay taxes (a mistake from the company) and the final price was more than double of what I paid to the company that made the thing. Stuuupid waste.
Therefore I prefer the download system like Macromedia.
If you don't work against time, time often works for you.
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Eric, yep that is it. Your tablet will work much better with that checked.
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Hi guys.
Erik I had the same problem when I re installed and forgot to re check tablet in the settings,for me the object would rotate of its own accord when ever I touched the tablet,in context that would be a great feature but not when you are trying to paint something [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] so now its back to normal again.I also find that my tablet works better if the pen is in pen mode or the mouse is in pen mode,not sure why though,so I use my pen in pen mode and have my mouse setup as a button box with the commands I want,it makes a big difference to speed you can work with.
I am going to rotate those eyes out just a little so they are in a semi human semi animal position.
This human modelling tutorial I am doing is just brilliant for new ways of modelling {thanks Erik}
Stu.
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Heres the new one,I like this one I am strating to get the look I want [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Stu.
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That's really starting to take shape there Stu. Lookin' good. It's funny to think that these shapes come from boxes...as they don't even resemble boxes once they're done. All in all, I'd say the box is the most useful primative in a 3d program.
I really like the ridge and bumps going down the center of the skull. Very realistic (for how I see dragons anyway). The eye placement looks good, and the skull shape above it accents them nicely. You could have a lot of fun with expressions once this piece is complete. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
The only thing that seems odd to me is the inner side of the "ear" (or fin). Perhaps it's just my angle, but that center inner flap looks a bit odd. Like I said, it could just be my view...I bet if I saw it from the back or from a very front facing perspective it would look perfectly normal. So Stu, is that an ear for the dragon? That was my first impression. Then I thought that perhaps it was a fin, and the ear a small opening hidden within the folds, like other lizards/reptilians.
It's really starting to look impressive. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
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Thanks Earl.
Ya its an ear,it took ages to shape that way but I think its too high and too big.
Now I have a bottom jaw to model as well.
I am actually wondering if this Dargon wouldnt look better in shiny gold or chrome,it has a spacey sort of sc fi look to it,whadda ya think?
I might have to look at boning it as soon as I work out how to do that [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Cheers
Stu.
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Heres the new render [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
I wanted a humanoid,ish ear so that the ear even thought its on a Dragon looked realistic,ish,but does it look too humanoid?....it almost looks kinda horsey to me somehow as well.
I think it will look very different again with teeth.
Earl I think you are right being able to get a plethora of expressions from the model [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Stu.
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I like that second ear better. It 'flows' with the face much more naturally. A gold or chrome-like dragon could look really good. I think most colors on a dragon could look good if done right. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
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Hi Stu,
I've been looking some more at your priliminary dragon jaw, so hopefully I can add some constructive criticism now. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
I do like the look of the ear and the general style. It should turn out great when textured and rendered. The 'human' ish approach seems to be working well, as it does give the dragon character. The problem I see with the jaw is that it's too short. I think it should extend further underneath the skull. Right now, it looks kinda like a flap. As it is, it just doesn't look like there are powerful jaw muscles moving it. I'd extend it a bit...I think it would help out with your horse problem too [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] Though, actually, I don't think you have too much to worry about in that respect. Once you put scales on it, it'll lose its slight resemblance to a horse. And besides, this is still just a draft model, I'm sure you'll be tweaking this model yet. All it takes is a few moved points and the whole thing takes on another look. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]
My PC at home is in a little trouble...as of now I can only get on at work. If I can get it back up and running, I'll see if I can start creating some primative head models and contribute some more.
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Just in case anyone has a newer Wacom Intuos tablet, you can use it in tablet OR mouse mode, as shown in their driver control here...
http://home.neo.rr.com/nikko/images/WacomTablet.jpg
This should eliminate the aforementioned problems with 3d software, shouldn't it?
Danny Huff
http://www.asherrocks.com
(I'm the guy who USED to have a lot of excess hair)
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Thanks Earl some more feedback would be great [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] ....hope you get that pc sorted as well [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Danny you are right but I find using my mac that if I have my mouse or pen in mouse mode that where I select say a point or poly with my cursor and where it is actually selected are two different things,so for me I have to use either the pen in pen mode or mouse in pen mode so I just use the pen and have the mouse as a button box.I had an almost identical problem in Painter that also was fixed by putting the pen in pen mode.I have tried all the drivers and have also done the Wacom support angle with a tech to no avail.The only program tha doesnt do it is Photoshop I dont know why but I am now assuming it is probably my graphics card and that Photoshop is somehow setup differently for tablets as opposed to Maxon and say Corel.I alos in mouse mode could not drag and drop but in pen mode I can and I have all the settings sorted for tablet and Mac conversion of control to command.But hey I can still use the tablet and my software so I dont really see that I have that much to grizzle about so I just put up with and work around it [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]...but thanks for the info anyway [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Earl I took your advice and fixed the jaw and also did some more re arranging
This just a basic test for textures which color looks better the goldish color or the brown [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Cheers.
Stu.
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Heres that image this time.Boy is my face R255 G0 B0.
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I think I prefer your goldish/red texture. But then, I've probably always favored red dragons. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] The dragon character that I've been working on is also a reddish looking dragon.
Your jaw looks much improved. And I see you've added teeth as well! So is the jaw physically attached to the head? Or are they separate objects? Is the head going to be separate from the body, etc?
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Cheers Earl.
Ya I see what you mean about the jaw,I have to build it out to show a connection to the head ie jaw bone...got it.
I like the reddish gold as well [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Can you tell me is it possible to apply a bump map to a seperate material?...ie I can get the gold colored skin looking good with the right orientation but when I set up my bump in that material to get the scales I made looking good I have to screw up the look of the skin completely as I have to rotate etc,what I would like is to have the control over mapping orientation etc with the bump that I do with a single material,is there away of doing this or am I just being thick?
Stu.
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Hmmm, your question regarding the bump map is, unfortunately, application specific. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img] As I'm not a user of a Cinema 4D, I don't have the answer. I do understand what you're saying, and there is an easy solution. In LightWave, one simply specifies a different 'layer' as the bump map. It's applied to the same surface, but it doesn't affect the texture orientation or other related settings. Again, it's completely application specific. I know there must be an easy way to do this in Cinema...Hopefully someone else who uses it can give us some insight.
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Thanks Earl.
I tried making a separate material and only using a bump channel and unchecking all the others but I couldnt get it to apply a bump under the skin texture it just applied it over the top once more.I think I might have to have a good look in the manaul again.
I will post the bump I made too see if you think it will look alright.
I know how to use and make channels in Photoshop with the lighting filter for bumps but after that I am bit lost really and I might have it all wrong,but I will go and dig up that bump [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Cheers [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Stu.
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Ok here it is.
I just had a thought I might be able to fit the bump to the object making it unmovable and then apply the skin over top [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Stu.
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Hi Stu,
You might be able to find the answer in the manual...I guess it depends on how well written and organized the manual is. The manuals for LightWave, well...hehe, SUCK! I feel bad for anyone who's trying to learn the program after just buying it...as the manuals are of little use.
The idea behind your bump texture is great. I see exactly what you're getting at. And, that's a good way to simulate scales - since you can use the same layer settings to play with specularity, etc. The only thing you may want to look into for your texture is how it will look once it is tiled many times. Often a texture can look good as it is, but once it is tiled (as it will be on the model) unwanted patterns can develop. Here's a sample of your texture tiled a bit. Some of these 'unwanted' patterns are beginning to show up, where as a lizard or any other scaled animal won't really have patterns this 'cold' or unnatural. I'd suggest creating a larger area for your scales bump (larger area meaning showing more scales). Then I'd diversify the scales slightly - giving individual scales unique characteristics. After that, I'd try tiling it again in a paint program just to see if any more unnatural 'patterns' show up. If so, then go back and edit the scales which seem to be causing the problem (by sometimes standing out too much from the rest, or being 'too' unique, etc). It's a real tough process, and it takes a lot of patience...ultimately one would want a texture that doesn't tile at all - one that fits the entire model 1 to 1, so you can manually 'paint' scarred bumps, or characteristic bumps, etc. But that takes a LONG time, a heck of a lot longer...
Anyhow, hope that's helpful. Feel free to tell me to shutup at any time... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] Keep working on that bump texture you posted...it definitely has potential.