Xara DTP - Double Page Spread

Now if you wanted to do something really useful (for me at any rate), how about a way to make a left and right page independent?

When I have done books in Xara, because I don't have the ability to have separate left and right pages, I have had to center the text area on the page. Ideally the left and right page will have different outer and inner margins. Presently, if you move all the text areas on the left pages using the apply to all paragraphs, it automatically moves all the text areas on the right pages the same distance. I have begged for this for years but to no avail. Because nobody at Xara has ever produced a book I suspect.

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Originally Posted by gwpriester

Now if you wanted to do something really useful (for me at any rate), how about a way to make a left and right page independent?

When I have done books in Xara, because I don't have the ability to have separate left and right pages, I have had to center the text area on the page. Ideally the left and right page will have different outer and inner margins. Presently, if you move all the text areas on the left pages using the apply to all paragraphs, it automatically moves all the text areas on the right pages the same distance. I have begged for this for years but to no avail. Because nobody at Xara has ever produced a book I suspect.

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Gary, you have me confusd.

Create a Double Page spread with two equal Panels.
Shift the Left Panel to the left edge and move the Right Panel to the right the same amount.
Link the Text Flow from the Left to the Right Panel.
Ensure Print/Export is set for Individual Pages.
Save off as a Template.

Open as a new document.
Duplicate the blank page.

Type or paste in material on the first page.
When you get an overflow, duplicate the blank page before Text Flow linking the overflow into the next page.
Repeat as required to the end of a chapter where you don't Text Flow into the next page.
Start on the next Chapter.

When you Export PDF, it outputs individual pages rather than the full spread.

I will demonstrate a JavaScript coding solution elsewhere when I have built it. You off set all Panels the same and code to bright in all even ones.
I, however, have my doubts if this will readily export to PDF.

Acorn

The way I work is I set up a column on both pages and set the second text box to create new pages on overflow. Because I work in chapters not individual pages.

So yes I can create a separate left and right pages and as long as I don't need to make a global change, everything is OK. But if I get all my pages set up and then discover that the central gutters are not far enough apart then I have to globally adjust all the columns. But one side will be OK but because all the pages are linked, the opposite pages will all be wrong. So I then have to manually adjust each column on the opposite pages manually.

And the gutter margins change with the number of pages in the book. And not being good at math or projection, I only know how many pages I have when I have flowed all the text.

Right now as shown in the attached you have two choices: All Text Areas, or Selected Text Area Only. So if I need to adjust the center margins and I adjust the center margin on the left page panel and select All text areas, then all the panels on the right hand pages are adjusted, but the text areas are not in the right place. So then each right hand page text area has to be adjusted individually with the Selected Text Only option. I know because I had to do this twice.

The ideal solution (Xara if you are listening - You're not) would be to have an option for All Pages, All Left Hand Pages, All Right Hand Pages, and Selected Text Only. Surely this cannot be that hard to do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gwpriester

The way I work is I set up a column on both pages and set the second text box to create new pages on overflow. Because I work in chapters not individual pages.

So yes I can create a separate left and right pages and as long as I don't need to make a global change, everything is OK. But if I get all my pages set up and then discover that the central gutters are not far enough apart then I have to globally adjust all the columns. But one side will be OK but because all the pages are linked, the opposite pages will all be wrong. So I then have to manually adjust each column on the opposite pages manually.

And the gutter margins change with the number of pages in the book. And not being good at math or projection, I only know how many pages I have when I have flowed all the text.

Right now as shown in the attached you have two choices: All Text Areas, or Selected Text Area Only. So if I need to adjust the center margins and I adjust the center margin on the left page panel and select All text areas, then all the panels on the right hand pages are adjusted, but the text areas are not in the right place. So then each right hand page text area has to be adjusted individually with the Selected Text Only option. I know because I had to do this twice.

The ideal solution (Xara if you are listening - You're not) would be to have an option for All Pages, All Left Hand Pages, All Right Hand Pages, and Selected Text Only. Surely this cannot be that hard to do.

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OK Gary, try this:

• Double Page Spread.
• Link Left Panel to Right Panel.
• Set up with 0.5in (3 pica) outer margins top, bottom, left & right.
• Set the inner gap between the Panels to be 1in (6 pica).
• Basically, centre each Panel within each page making them appear mirror images down the centre of the double page.
• Set the Right Panel to automatically create new pages.
• Create a Gutter Layer.
• In this, add the tall, thin box centred the height of the page and a width to reflect your expected Gutter.
• Repeat on all pages.
• Set to Repel text under.
• When changing the gutter, ensure the Lock Aspect Ratio is off and use pica multiples.
• You can use Shift+Drag on the Gutter or Text Panels to keep everything balanced, accepting All Pages.
• You can add additional Repel shapes to tweak any individual page.
• You can stop Repeating or any Gutter copy; I would normally avoid doing this.
• When happy, change the Gutter Fill to reflect the page background.

Attachment 131389

Acorn

I'll try to get to this in the morning.

This Thread is a spin-off from questions asked in another sister Thread... https://www.talkgraphics.com/showthr...Line-Numbering

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In passing, I mentioned a JavaScript solution.

It is of the form:

Code:

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<script>
var lmargin = "0.5in";
var panels = document.getElementsByClassName('xr_txt');
var count = panels.length;
for (var i = 0; i < count; i += 2) {
  panels[i].style.left = lmargin;
  panels[i].style.backgroundColor ="yellow";
}
</script>

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You offset all text area to the right; the code brings back the odd pages only.
The "yellow" was just to check things clicked.

Where it falls down is the tweaking needed if additional Text Areas are added to a page (e.g., page numbering) - the ClassName, xr_txt, is rather endemic so you end up needing to add individual different ClassNames to the wanted text areas.

It is not something that strikes me a bullet-proof.
The final nail is exporting to PDF loses all the adjustments.

Acorn

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It is not something that strikes me a bullet-proof.
The final nail is exporting to PDF loses all the adjustments.

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But how hard would it be for Xara to as I suggested above add an option when one moves a paragraph left page, right page, or both.

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Originally Posted by gwpriester

But how hard would it be for Xara to as I suggested above add an option when one moves a paragraph left page, right page, or both.

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Gary, not very.

I hope you are not conflating the JavaScript code approach with my earlier offered Xara - Guttering.xar, which I think is a solid solution?
I found it rather elegant.

Acorn

The point is, if it's not that hard then why don't they implement it. Designer Pro+ among other things is supposed to be a desktop publishing tool, but is it only a tool for people who can add JavaScript code to their documents? I have said this a dozen times before, if Xara would just concentrate on all the features that have been added then abandoned it would be the best software product on the planet.

I don't want to have to add code to a project. My brain does not work that way.

Flowing text into a document is the easy part. Then I go though basically line for line and adjust the tracking to try to achieve even coloring throughout the document. So If I adjust the gutter margins using your method, then I have to go through the entire document from top to bottom and readjust every line of text. So that may be an elegant solution but not one that is going to same me any time. I would be better off as I have done in the past shifting each paragraph on the opposite page manually.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gwpriester

The point is, if it's not that hard then why don't they implement it. Designer Pro+ among other things is supposed to be a desktop publishing tool, but is it only a tool for people who can add JavaScript code to their documents? I have said this a dozen times before, if Xara would just concentrate on all the features that have been added then abandoned it would be the best software product on the planet.

I don't want to have to add code to a project. My brain does not work that way.

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Gary, ignore the code. The offer on the table is using existing Xara functionality: Repel text. Why does this not work for you? It's just a custom template.

Acorn

Because basically it sets me back to ground zero. I have to go back and rework the entire text tracking, coloring etc.

Of course, you know the solution to your problem. You just don't like that solution...

It is possible to continue to live in hope Xara will heed your prayers and add Master pages, which, if done with any notion of how document layout works, should solve this issue. However, even if so, there's more to be done to make XDP into a layout application for serious layout work. Would Xara also do these things? I doubt it.

Maybe Master pages (or just some semblance thereof) would suffice for you. But would that ability alone be enough to draw people to XDP for layout work? Does it have applicability to their main emphasis (web-work)? I think so (Serif WebPlus had them...the first YouTube video I found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfrKVai32fY).

More to the point re a layout application, Serif PagePlus made great use of Master pages--as does any/every actual layout application.

Anyway, enough blathering. Master pages or the like would be a good addition to XDP.

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Of course, you know the solution to your problem. You just don't like that solution...

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I know, I know.

The woman who publishes our local newspaper used QuarkXpress to do the blue prints for a house she had built.

Call me stubborn. I just know Xara and I know how to make it do what I need it to do. InDesign would be world's better, I know, and I even have a copy on my computer. It's just that I do maybe one to two books a year and in the time in between books I'd totally forget what I did the last time.

Interesting read and I see your points Gary. I do a 4 page newsletter for a couple of organizations and use Xara, let alone a book. I’ve used Xara for a number of years, but you bring to the fore one aspect that Xara should be working on. InDesign is your answer and you have it. I wanted something economical and picked up Affinity Publisher for $50, a steal during the covid lock down and it also answer your needs. Heck open source dtp would answer your needs.
I hope Xara improves in this area for you. I haven’t found any cloud based temps in Xara Pro. Since Xara seems intent on promoting the cloud version, perhaps a shout in that direction may help.