Show Printer Colours - what CMYK Profile?

I like to preview my documents in CMYK before sending off for commercial print.

Designer Pro X's Show Printer Colours shows CMYK, but using what ICC Profile?
And how do I change the preview profile to be the same as the commercial printers?

I notice, if I export to TIFF as CMYK, the exported file looks exactly the same as the preview file in Pro X.

However, if I export to PDF as CMYK, using the default CMYK Profile (I'm presuming it's the same as the Show Printer Colours profile), the colours are very different.

My goal here it to preview in a particular CMYK Profile, and when I export, either as PDF or TIFF, to get the intended result.

All input welcome!

Seamus

there is no colour profiling in xara

the tiff just reflects the xara default 'print colours' which are unprofiled

if you export as PDF the PDF can apply a colour profile depending on settings, but you cannot view this in xara as it will print - need another app for that

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(I'm presuming it's the same as the Show Printer Colours profile

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just to clarify - show printer colours is not a profile, xara themselves describe it as 'approximate'

your PDF is applying a profile when you export, but xara has no means of using profiles on import afaik they are just ignored

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Originally Posted by handrawn

just to clarify - show printer colours is not a profile, xara themselves describe it as 'approximate'

your PDF is applying a profile when you export, but xara has no means of using profiles on import afaik they are just ignored

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Thanks handrawn. Yes, I've checked against 'another design program' and the PDFs exported with profiles from Designer Pro X look close enough to 'those other programs'.

This lack of ICC preview profiling is really the only thing keeping me from using Designer Pro X as my main design program for going to print.

What do designers do as a workaround? And why is this important function lacking?

Seamus

the feature is lacking because xara have never given it any love apart from tweaking the PDF for a long time

I use affinity photo/designer/publisher

Okay, thanks handrawn.

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Originally Posted by XByrne

Thanks handrawn. Yes, I've checked against 'another design program' and the PDFs exported with profiles from Designer Pro X look close enough to 'those other programs'.

This lack of ICC preview profiling is really the only thing keeping me from using Designer Pro X as my main design program for going to print.

What do designers do as a workaround? And why is this important function lacking?

Seamus

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Like in Adobe or Affinity I work in my Xara documents all vector and fonts in CMYK. For this I have printed catalogs on the most comming paper types (colour-tables) to see the colour like it is when printed.
For Pictures I use only RGB (no conversion in CMYK). This is a so called neutral cross medeia workflow. The conversion in the right ICC-profile I make at the end when I generate a PDF for the Printshop. Here in Germany we use in many cases ECI 300.icc.
In Xara is an icc-profile named ISO Coated v2 (ECI) (FOGRA39) and ISO Coated v2 300 (ECI) (FOGRA39). The ISO Coated v2 300 (ECI) (FOGRA39) is the same like ECI 300. It means that the maximum ink coverage of all 4 colours can't be over 300%.

For the softproof (visual control) I use Acrobat Pro and a calibrated envirnoment. The print colour preview in Xara is a joke.

All my print-jobs I'ved done in Xara were accurate. But without Acrobat Pro you have no chance to work colour-proof.

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Originally Posted by ernie-f

Like in Adobe or Affinity I work in my Xara documents all vector and fonts in CMYK. For this I have printed catalogs on the most comming paper types (colour-tables) to see the colour like it is when printed.
For Pictures I use only RGB (no conversion in CMYK). This is a so called neutral cross medeia workflow.

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Very interesting. Vectors and fonts in CMYK and pictures in RGB. How do you achieve that? Are you going by the colour numbers?

For fonts and vectors I use the colour editor and switch to CMYK.

Images stay in RGB. I tend to use Adobe RGB for RAW conversion. All others are in sRGB. Remember that CMYK has a smaller Colour gamut as sRGB.

I use only a conversion to CMYK if I do some art books for museums or art exibitions. In this cases the colours must match to a grade of 95% to the original.
Such work I proof be a hardcopy from the printer who do the endproduct.

In many cases I stay at the printingmachine and match the colours with the printoperator.

For these jobs I definitively don't use Xara.

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Originally Posted by ernie-f

For fonts and vectors I use the colour editor and switch to CMYK.

Images stay in RGB. I tend to use Adobe RGB for RAW conversion. All others are in sRGB. Remember that CMYK has a smaller Colour gamut as sRGB.

I use only a conversion to CMYK if I do some art books for museums or art exibitions. In this cases the colours must match to a grade of 95% to the original.
Such work I proof be a hardcopy from the printer who do the endproduct.

In many cases I stay at the printingmachine and match the colours with the printoperator.

For these jobs I definitively don't use Xara.

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My goodness, they're great tips! Many thanks. I've always found printers can be lacking in proper reproduction, even working from a hardcopy proof. Matching the colours with the print operator is a great idea!
Do you tweak your RGB images much to match the CMYK soft-proof, or do you find that modern printers do a good 'brightening' job in conversion to CMYK anyway?

If you know how much the job is paid – Yes.
For the most stationery jobs you don't need it, only if you must hold the CD (Corperate Design) with maybe Pantone Colours.

A brihtening is no good for a print job. If you got a calibrated environment prepare you photos in a photo editor that has a colour managamend. Import in Xara and write a PDF for printing.
Ask your printshop what they need for icc.-profiles. If needed order a hardproof to control it.

Thats it.

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Originally Posted by ernie-f

If you know how much the job is paid – Yes.
For the most stationery jobs you don't need it, only if you must hold the CD (Corperate Design) with maybe Pantone Colours.

A brihtening is no good for a print job. If you got a calibrated environment prepare you photos in a photo editor that has a colour managamend. Import in Xara and write a PDF for printing.
Ask your printshop what they need for icc.-profiles. If needed order a hardproof to control it.

Thats it.

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Thanks very much for your advice. Much appreciated!

You're welcome!