Why Xara Designer Pro+

I have an email from that compares Xara Designer Pro+ with "Other Xara Desktop".


I can only assume the "Limited" is referencing the Xara Desktop applications that are not Xara Designer Pro.

What is more unsettling is the number of updates a year.
A time back, on joining as CEO, Matt Bolton addressed us with https://www.talkgraphics.com/showthr...EO-Matt-Bolton.
His "We will continue, as we always have, to release new features and performance improvements on a consistent basis." is now two times a year: the first is a major marketing release that Magix insists on. The second is a bug fix release as the first has next to little proper beta testing.

My take:

For those on the Magix Update Service, you ideally need to ensure your renewal date is after the second release to realise any real benefit.
Those a month before have potentially a buggy version for six months and a less buggy version for a further five.
In, accepting the next version, and not renewing the Update Service, you could face a buggy new version and to regress, you fall back to the buggy prior one.

Even as late as https://www.talkgraphics.com/showthr...150#post625150 in June, MB365 (Matt) neglected to advise the four updates a year he previously mentioned was now two.

Acorn

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	Designer Pro+	Other Xara Desktop
Version	20.4	17.0
Features	All Photo, Illustration, Web, DTP	Limited
Updates	10+/year Always current	2/year Wait for update service
Distribution	Xara	Resellers like Magix
Support	Modern, real-time chat with industry leading response times	Standard
Offer	Lock in 50% discount today & future credit for update service	None
Cloud	Free	None

a gradual reduction in service usually means a sidelining of the product...

updates to pro+ 10 in the year
updates to 'other' 2 a year

at that rate it is not going to be too long before pro+ is way ahead in features, and the 'other' versions trailing way behind, so far behind that they will just, well, languish in the shadows...

[ :D https://www.talkgraphics.com/showthr...197#post629197 ]

I do not know for sure if it was always Xara's intention to finesse a subscription model this way, but it is no real surprise is it...

To be honest with the updates that I have seen for the + so far, I am not going to write home about them, so the xara pro with 2 updates a year is enough as if I will use those new updates. I am not loosing sleep over this.

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Originally Posted by Acorn

I have an email from that compares Xara Designer Pro+ with "Other Xara Desktop".

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You forgot (or maybe not) to mention the sender.

Quite a bit of interesting news but also confusing because XDP has the same (albeit not as up-to-date) feature set as XDP+.

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Originally Posted by behzad

To be honest with the updates that I have seen for the + so far, I am not going to write home about them, so the xara pro with 2 updates a year is enough as if I will use those new updates. I am not loosing sleep over this.

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I'll second that thought process. For me personally, the price jump from Web Premium to Pro+ is a larger step than Pro to Pro+ so the extra updates have to be even more special. Also SAAS. Only sellers like that, buyers don't.

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Originally Posted by Boy

You forgot (or maybe not) to mention the sender.
Quite a bit of interesting news but also confusing because XDP has the same (albeit not as up-to-date) feature set as XDP+.

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Boy, i was focusing on the "new normal" comparison of Xara Designer Pro+ with the Magix Update Service version.

The sender was Ana a.k.a. info@mail.xara.com.

Here is a view of the email content. The missing icons are a small rocket:

Attachment 128052

I have not included the original as it has my email.

Acorn

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Originally Posted by Acorn

Boy, i was focusing on the "new normal" comparison of Xara Designer Pro+ with the Magix Update Service version.

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Increased update frequency sounds tempting but I wonder about the quality of these updates. Perhaps tomorrow mgmt. starts to focus on something else again.

I hope we can at least see a November 2020 update for Designer Pro X that incorporates all the improvements that have been added to Designer Pro X+ (sans cloud stuff).

There is also another possibility. We have to wait until Designer Pro X 18 in 2021 for the next update.

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Originally Posted by Promidi

I hope we can at least see a November 2020 update for Designer Pro X that incorporates all the improvements that have been added to Designer Pro X+ (sans cloud stuff).

There is also another possibility. We have to wait until Designer Pro X 18 in 2021 for the next update.

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Yeah me too.

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Originally Posted by Promidi

I hope we can at least see a November 2020 update for Designer Pro X that incorporates all the improvements that have been added to Designer Pro X+ (sans cloud stuff).

There is also another possibility. We have to wait until Designer Pro X 18 in 2021 for the next update.

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As regards to enhancing Designer Pro X, it may not be in Xara's commercial interests to promote a true competitive product / (alternative pricing model) though its Magix reseller channel. Pro will get upgraded at some time, but maybe not with all the new goodies (whatever they might be).

It is sadly crass marketing on behalf of Xara and naïve at best to assume the majority of its historic customer base (handed-over to Magix) are going to roll-over and sign-up to a new Xara Pro+ @ circa £100 per annum (after the 50% discount).

Personally, I see no merit in maintaining a Magix Upgrade Service at £99 per annum either, when there is no visibility/roadmap/ timescale for any upgrade.

My current ongoing Xara cost is zero – when Pro v18 (or whatever it is called) appears, maybe in March 2021, it will be worth a look. Meantime and with many thanks to TG support, I'm staying put with Pro v17.

@acorn. Features > Limited. What the heck does that mean?

For the sites I do there’s no way a non profit can afford $$ per month. Apparently there is some kind of break for non profits but I’ve been unable to find it.
-Bill

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Originally Posted by bwood

@acorn. Features > Limited. What the heck does that mean?

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I don't know but my guess above was it referred to the crippled sub-products in https://www.xara.com/uk/designer-pro/compare/.

Acorn

To all! I’m thinking at the moment to shift all my sites to Pro+. The non profit price is quite attractive.
Question. Will my current sites open on the Cloud based version of Xara? Will everything work as constructed in the DP versions?

Many Thanks,
Bill

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Originally Posted by bwood

To all! I’m thinking at the moment to shift all my sites to Pro+. The non profit price is quite attractive.
Question. Will my current sites open on the Cloud based version of Xara? Will everything work as constructed in the DP versions?

Many Thanks,
Bill

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Bill, everything will work as if you were using XDPX on the Desktop with Xara Designer Pro+.

The Cloud only gets involved if you enable a Cloud server to store your design files.
I use Dropbox anyhow and occasionally I open the design file in Xara Cloud+.
The things you can see, you can edit and if you have XDP+ open, the changes in either are quickly reflected in the other when you perform a Save. Do note Xara Cloud(+) is not yet fully featured to take over as a replacement for your Desktop application.

What I use Xara Cloud+ for is to present my website using Share > Share to web. This is a SSL-secure link so I am happier to present my designs with clients during development.
The Share > Download options are also useful.

Xara Cloud+ is effectively a rendering engine of Xara Designer Pro+ on a server rather than on your machine.
Unless someone corrects me, there is no direct path to publishing your design from Xara Cloud into your server Provider's environment.

I am quite happy with the service, although the earlier 2-hour response is now set at 3-hours.
I also like the immediacy of changes.
I am less bothered with it being a subscription as if it stops, I still have XDPXv17.0 to use and I could switch to a monthly subscription if I had a clutch of work.
I do find I design down so my sites will still edit in the earlier versions so I am well-covered.

Acorn

Thanks @acorn. Appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Acorn

Bill, everything will work as if you were using XDPX on the Desktop with Xara Designer Pro+.

The Cloud only gets involved if you enable a Cloud server to store your design files.
I use Dropbox anyhow and occasionally I open the design file in Xara Cloud+.
The things you can see, you can edit and if you have XDP+ open, the changes in either are quickly reflected in the other when you perform a Save. Do note Xara Cloud(+) is not yet fully featured to take over as a replacement for your Desktop application.

What I use Xara Cloud+ for is to present my website using Share > Share to web. This is a SSL-secure link so I am happier to present my designs with clients during development.
The Share > Download options are also useful.

Xara Cloud+ is effectively a rendering engine of Xara Designer Pro+ on a server rather than on your machine.
Unless someone corrects me, there is no direct path to publishing your design from Xara Cloud into your server Provider's environment.

I am quite happy with the service, although the earlier 2-hour response is now set at 3-hours.
I also like the immediacy of changes.
I am less bothered with it being a subscription as if it stops, I still have XDPXv17.0 to use and I could switch to a monthly subscription if I had a clutch of work.
I do find I design down so my sites will still edit in the earlier versions so I am well-covered.

Acorn

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Publishing. If you are using Xara Desktop to publish a site and the .xar/.web file has the required settings, then you can open, edit and republish the site with Xara Cloud. There are scheduled improvements in this area of Xara Cloud, including better feedback and collaboration workflow between designer and client (or document creator and other team members). Hope this helps highlight a few more capabilities of Xara.

Attachment 128071Attachment 128072

Yet I did my decision and swamped into Xara Pro+.
For my daily graphic work I need Xara DPX.

To get in future more and better tools I decided to support Xara by subscribing. After all, I also earn money using the software.

Xara DPX by Magix is for me a dead horse.

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Originally Posted by ernie-f

Yet I did my decision and swamped into Xara Pro+.
For my daily graphic work I need Xara DPX.

To get in future more and better tools I decided to support Xara by subscribing. After all, I also earn money using the software.

Xara DPX by Magix is for me a dead horse.

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Thank you for your support.

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Originally Posted by MB365

Publishing. If you are using Xara Desktop to publish a site and the .xar/.web file has the required settings, then you can open, edit and republish the site with Xara Cloud. There are scheduled improvements in this area of Xara Cloud, including better feedback and collaboration workflow between designer and client (or document creator and other team members). Hope this helps highlight a few more capabilities of Xara.

Attachment 128071Attachment 128072

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Matt, what I was getting at is there is not a Publish option directly from Xara Cloud; it has to be publish through Xara Designer Pro+ first to then see the "re-publish" option.

Acorn

@mb365. Hi Matt.

I’m probably going to Pro+ per annum at 50% off. I expressed to your staff that I was working for a number of non profits, and they indicated I’d get 50% off lifetime. I’m a little surprised I didn’t have to prove in any way that I’m working for a non profit. No charitable numbers for taxes etc, no credentials from the non profit.
As well you indicate that there’s special rates for non profits, but it seems that anyone can get 50% off initially. In addition I’m a senior on a very limited income. The non profits do not pay me.

What is the Xara deal for non profits, and why is there no proof that a builder is working for a non profit.
Thanks in advance for the clarification Matt.

-Bill

Vaguely, somewhere, when you purchase add LIFETIME50 or LIFETIME (sorry I can't remember which it is) to the voucher box and anyone can get it.

It is a speciality of Magix and Xara to never communicate these offers and most other things in a sane and appropriate fashion, making it hit or miss for punters who end up getting very disappointed or cross.
c.f., https://www.talkgraphics.com/showthr...224#post629224.

Acorn

@mb365. Took the plunge Matt and subscribed to Pro+. Considering I do 4 non profit websites, and 2 newsletters I figure it’s a pretty good deal. Xara has given me a great deal of pleasure over the years and they deserve support
I like what you’ve done with Pro+. The switch was very seemless and Pro kept my passwords and log ins with no problem at all. Also impressed with the support from a fellow named Dimitri.

The downloads triggered all the MS defender stuff. It took several times to get the download right.

I’m a little confused over the difference of Pro+ and Cloud+ but I’ll figure it out eventually.

Glad to be around for the ride

-Bill

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I’m a little confused over the difference of Pro+ and Cloud+ but I’ll figure it out eventually.

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Basically ther is no difference Bill.

Hi,
I just got (another?) email from Xara - the one as above, from Ana... it's most confusing, even despite having a text-chat with Xara several weeks ago...

They offered me the 50% life-time discount. When I pointed out that I had only just renewed the annual update-service (just for WebDesigner) with Magix, Xara offered me 16 weeks extension for free. OK, not bad, but they'd based their math on the full cost, thus halving the free extension period! (It's not a huge amount of money, but the principal is core to building trust). I asked about the Magix/Xara relationship, the future plans, bug reporting, fixing etc, etc. - none of that was answered.

The only thing that I was tempted by, was that support (for Pro+, inc WebDesigner) was with Xara directly, seemed to be better, and has a UK office (I think, if I recall correctly??). Just the improved support alone is tempting. I have spent many, many hours collecting screenshots, reporting bugs, fathoming a work-around etc, for Magix support (by email). Quite often a response comes many days later (in the middle of a project - not good), and often with an initial response of either 'its supposed to do that' or 'please send more information' (to which I usually respond with "see my 3rd email already sent" or similar!! Grrh). Not that I blame the support staff!

I am more than happy (addicted?) to collecting info to help solve a bug that leads to a fix. But when it mostly seems to fall on deaf ears...

The Pro+ web/collaborative aspects could also be great - to smooth working on web pages with remote clients, but that needed me to assess by use of trial software... and I've put that on the back-burner for now...

Overall, the key factors (for users and their clients) is the long-term strategy for the software, support and training/learning options (I've found the help to be somewhat 'all over the place', but perhaps I am expecting too much!?) :(

The Magix-supplied WebDesigner is still powerful software, but the 'querks' made it a horrid experience on occassions, especially when they're so obvious and probably relatively simple to fix in code. Let's hope Xara find their way.

Cheers

I never experienced such confusion with other software companies. Good luck. I personally after finishing my magix 1 year, will keep using what I got.

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Originally Posted by Sheridan

Hi,
I just got (another?) email from Xara - the one as above, from Ana... it's most confusing, even despite having a text-chat with Xara several weeks ago...

They offered me the 50% life-time discount. When I pointed out that I had only just renewed the annual update-service (just for WebDesigner) with Magix, Xara offered me 16 weeks extension for free. OK, not bad, but they'd based their math on the full cost, thus halving the free extension period! (It's not a huge amount of money, but the principal is core to building trust). I asked about the Magix/Xara relationship, the future plans, bug reporting, fixing etc, etc. - none of that was answered.

The only thing that I was tempted by, was that support (for Pro+, inc WebDesigner) was with Xara directly, seemed to be better, and has a UK office (I think, if I recall correctly??). Just the improved support alone is tempting. I have spent many, many hours collecting screenshots, reporting bugs, fathoming a work-around etc, for Magix support (by email). Quite often a response comes many days later (in the middle of a project - not good), and often with an initial response of either 'its supposed to do that' or 'please send more information' (to which I usually respond with "see my 3rd email already sent" or similar!! Grrh). Not that I blame the support staff!

I am more than happy (addicted?) to collecting info to help solve a bug that leads to a fix. But when it mostly seems to fall on deaf ears...

The Pro+ web/collaborative aspects could also be great - to smooth working on web pages with remote clients, but that needed me to assess by use of trial software... and I've put that on the back-burner for now...

Overall, the key factors (for users and their clients) is the long-term strategy for the software, support and training/learning options (I've found the help to be somewhat 'all over the place', but perhaps I am expecting too much!?) :(

The Magix-supplied WebDesigner is still powerful software, but the 'querks' made it a horrid experience on occassions, especially when they're so obvious and probably relatively simple to fix in code. Let's hope Xara find their way.

Cheers

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Hi Sheridan,
We want to answer your questions and would welcome another opportunity. If you have time, please reach us via the chat inside Xara Cloud or at www.xara.com.
Talk soon,
Matt

Why not answer them here? We all have the same questions as Sheridan. Building trust.

@Sheridan

If you have XWDP then a Xara offer to move to XPro+/Cloud+ will factor in the cheaper cost of XWDP vs XDPX. The fact Xara is offering an extension at all is actually generous. 16 weeks is 40% of your remaining Magix Update Service period (I am guessing 40 weeks).

For the Magix/Xara relationship, you have t delve into company listings to get to the bottom of it all.
Treat Magix as a reseller. Xara then bought into Magix's Support and Distribution, probably thinking global sale even at a far smaller financial gain per unit sold would be good business.
You then end up with an artificially fragmented, promotion-driven, suite of applications that are simply subsets of the main XDPX. Delivery Hell.

Magix, again probably, would not want to handle Patch releases, bug fixes and frequent updates.
Matt originally promised 3 to 4 releases a year. Magix insists on a Major Version release each year. In the end, we appear to get just two.
version 17.0 was nothing of consequence so customers are actually getting a yearly update; this is what Xara delivered pre-Magix.
Throw in the disastrous roll-back to purchase version (losing patches) and that is where you are with XWDP/XDPX...

The new Pro+ is one product. Cloud+ is the same product but on a server.
Easier to support and update.

Support is not just UK as Xara is GmbH registered and has staff in Germany.
Development is mostly UK for the desktop but the Cloud could be developed from anywhere.
Documentation is a bottleneck as Xara is not bulking up its staff in this area. It relies on on-line tools!

Personally, Pro+ is a far superior and logical approach.
I use it and XDPX for client and in support of TG.
I would be happy to abandon XDPX if I was just a hobbyist.

Acorn

It feels like Xara selling their software directly, with better support and more updates than via Magix, is like a repeat of breaking free from Corel.

I can't imagine many people who have used TalkGraphics over the years wanting to subscribe to LatestProductName+ are doing it for the webbased editor, only for the newer desktop software.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

It feels like Xara selling their software directly, with better support and more updates than via Magix, is like a repeat of breaking free from Corel.
I can't imagine many people who have used TalkGraphics over the years wanting to subscribe to LatestProductName+ are doing it for the webbased editor, only for the newer desktop software.

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Yep, it feels like Corel 2.0.
The Cloud experience is worth persisting with. I do hope Xara fulfils its earliest promises around it.

Acorn

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Originally Posted by Acorn

I do hope Xara fulfils its earliest promises around it.

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Xara Xtreme LX taught me to believe in what happens rather than what's supposed to.

Thanks for the responses...

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Originally Posted by Boy

Why not answer them here? We all have the same questions as Sheridan. Building trust.

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OK, good point. It's kinda good to know I am not alone in my frustration/quest/madness! :)

& @Matt...

I've had a little look-about herein, and I've not said anything new... but the 'building trust' in Xara, the product and its support is key for any user.

These are front-line tools for users and their clients. As such all parties need predictability, reliability, rapid recovery/support, and longevity. The cost of software is mostly our usage - hopefully being productive rather trying to solve problems or 'features'.

When I looked online, I saw little to re-establish my faith in Xara's (Magix?) products (following my experiences so far, overall, with Magix etc). I just ended up more confused really.

Acorn's summary below (above?!) looks like it demonstrates the 'confusion' for users?

@Acorn

Thanks for the detail! It all comes across as a falling out.

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If you have XWDP then a Xara offer to move to XPro+/Cloud+ will factor in the cheaper cost of XWDP vs XDPX. The fact Xara is offering an extension at all is actually generous. 16 weeks is 40% of your remaining Magix Update Service period (I am guessing 40 weeks).

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Yes, it seemed like that. i might have the details incorrect, can't recall... But it didn't totally negate the annual 'subscription' that I'd paid just 2-3 weeks earlier. The offer is better than nothing for sure, but I was still being asked to pay for something twice (XWDP), albeit for part of the year. When I tried to work out how they'd arrived at the period, it seemed to be based on the 50% discounted pricing.

This meant the concerns/gains mentioned would be the only enticement (Xara for support, Cloud features, etc) for me to swap over to Pro+ etc.

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Promotion-driven

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: yes. DOnt get me started on the advert popping up in my paid-for software! (think I disabled it OK).

I think I just need the time to try out Pro+, Cloud+ etc: I'm just not looking forward to a similar pain-barrier.

Thanks again.

So I am about to order the Xara Pro+ subscription to replace my subscription service with Magix. IMPORTANT QUESTION - I work with several other web and graphic designers. We all use Xara Designer Pro. If I move to Pro+ with a version of 20.x and they continue to use the Pro at version 17.x will there be any incompatibility issues? We frequently share the same files in shared cloud storage so we can all open and edit any of the files.

THANKS!

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Originally Posted by onlye

So I am about to order the Xara Pro+ subscription to replace my subscription service with Magix. IMPORTANT QUESTION - I work with several other web and graphic designers. We all use Xara Designer Pro. If I move to Pro+ with a version of 20.x and they continue to use the Pro at version 17.x will there be any incompatibility issues? We frequently share the same files in shared cloud storage so we can all open and edit any of the files.
THANKS!

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I switch between both regularly and they are 99% compatible.
Obviously the latest v20 features (few) will not all function in v17 but you get a Warning. This is not the same as the notice that it was made in a later version.

I take files all the way down to v10 with very few issues.

Acorn

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Originally Posted by Acorn

I switch between both regularly and they are 99% compatible.
Obviously the latest v20 features (few) will not all function in v17 but you get a Warning. This is not the same as the notice that it was made in a later version.

I take files all the way down to v10 with very few issues.

Acorn

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Thanks Acorn