Feeling disappointed and deceived

Yesterday I posted a request to talkgraphics members for advice concerning Xara Photo & Graphics Designer. This is a follow-up.

Magix is currently advertising a special offer for new purchase of $49.99 (Regularly $99.94). Below additional text, it is specified that there is a $10 discount that is valid until March 25, 2020. I’m posting a screenshot.

Attachment 126615

When I saw this promotion yesterday morning, I immediately downloaded the free trial and began experimenting, reading the old Xara Outsider tutorials, and basically dedicating my entire day to deciding whether or not the app would meet my needs.

This morning (25 March), I went on line to make the purchase. I confirmed that the promotion was the same and went through the process. Unfortunately, I neglected to confirm the prices in the process.

Result: I was charged the special offer price without the $10 discount that is offered.

I sent a message immediately to Magix explaining the issue and requesting reimbursement for the discount.

I have already received their response: The discount is already included in the price. It is not deducted extra.

I am admittedly a bit perturbed. This feels to me like a blatantly misleading promise. The price and the discount are not exhibited as the same thing on their page. There is no asterisk indicating that the discount is included in the promotional price. And the fact that the difference between the regular and promotional price is $49.95, not $10, leads one not to assume that they are the same thing.

I recognize that $10 is not a big deal, but I feel very misled. It is the principal more than anything.

So, this post is 1) to warn everyone to be careful in dealing with Magix now, as they seem to be implementing dishonest practices, 2) to ask if anyone else has had a similar experience, 3) to ask opinions of my recourse. (I can apparently cancel the subscription up to 14 days after purchase. Would you cancel on principal? By the way, there are other photo editing options available, so I wouldn’t be cutting off my nose to spite my face.)

Thanks for any input.

is that version 16 you bought ? - version 17 will be out any day now... a good reason to cancel if you bought 16

looking at your screen shot - Magix would say:

it is 49.99 regular price 99.94- as stated

we are including panorama studio worth 39.95

49.99 + 39.95 = 89.94 which is 10.00 less than the 99.94, so there is you discount - it is all shown

but of course, untill you get your head around the way Magix do this it is not clear

and I would question how real the 99.94 and 39.95 figures actually actually are....

Quite sad that no one in MagiXara is seeming to care.

We do!

If you have not Registered yet, hold off until v17.0 is released. That way, you guarantee an equitable "fall back" to v17.0 and not v16.n.
If you have Registered, you could wait until v17.0 is out. Then check the version date. If it is before your Registration get the assurance from Magix that your "fall back" version will be to v17.0.

Best of all, fight for a full refund. When v17.1 is out, buy in then.
The current download is 04 November 2019, which is appalling.

When you have your money back, buy Affinity Photo and set up your XWDP to link image editing to Affinity Photo.
Work down the list of differences with XWDP and XP&GD in https://www.xara.com/uk/designer-pro/compare/.
You will be spending $30 at most. I use Inkscape in PortableApps format for free, which is even cheaper.

Acorn

Thanks, handdrawn,

You may be right, but it is definitely deceptive. And you’re definitely right about the regular prices they display ($99.94 and $39.95). I’ve never seen them without some kind of discount in effect… but that’s not so bad as that is a fairly common practice. It’s not getting the software at the price they lead you to expect that bothers me.

It’s version 16. 17 is still not available, I believe. They are probably offering the discount precisely for that reason.

In the past, when I renewed WDP, the “included in the offer” items were “gifts”. They displayed the price so that you knew the apparent value of the gift, but they did not figure in any way into the charge. Assuming that Panorama Studio is the same in this instance, the effect on the cost, real or hidden, should be $0.

For me, the numbers don’t stack up in any direction.

The “full value” of P&GD $99.94 and Pan Studio $39.95 would be $139.89. $10 off either would give $129.89. $10 off Pan Studio with the P&GD discount price would be $79.94 ($49.99 + $39.95 - $10). Your calculation of $89.94 leaves me perplexed. It is beyond creative… it is Magic(x). ;) And there’s no reference to such a number anywhere.

I can’t get past my interpretation of the numbers as they are displayed. So, you may be right, but it is definitely deceptive.

In view of Acorn’s subsequent post, I’m considering my options.

I genuinely appreciate you input.

Thanks, Acorn.

As always, I really appreciate your response.

I downloaded the P&GD software yesterday, as a free trial. I registered the copy with the trial serial number. I haven’t registered the serial number associated with the paid subscription yet… too busy smoldering in my disappointment, I suppose. So I’m really glad I read your response before doing so. The confirmation email lists only “MAGIX Photo & Graphic Designer” as the product… without a version number specified. Nevertheless, the link included shows a url directed to version 16. I’m not sure how it will work if I wait to register until I have downloaded v17, so I will perhaps get in touch with Magix, as you suggest, to find out what they will consider my fall-back version.

I installed the Affinity Photo 90-day trial version last week when someone on talkgraphics mentioned the 50% promotion they have until 20 April. I followed a number of the tutorials, and it looks quite good. The disadvantages are 1) that P&GD includes graphics, which is a separate module in Affinity that is purchased independently, and 2) I have so much experience with Xara WDP that learning the interface is zero work… in fact, a subset of the photo and graphics options are already familiar to me as part of WDP.

I actually installed Inkscape (desktop) and GIMP several years ago when I started developing our website. I played around a little with them, but was concentrating more on learning website development. I think it may be time to revisited both.

It seems that I have a bit of thinking to do in the coming days to decide which course of action to take.

Again, many thanks.
Greg

ok

magix approach to selling is 'bucket shop' in my opinion, not a compliment

it would put me off buying this software were i looking at it afresh today

What I see:

Current discount price 50$
Discount 10$
Pan Studio 40$
------------------
Total 100$

It says Regularly 100$.

Without the 10$ discount, the price will be 60$, not 50$.

another way of looking at the same thing ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by browj2

What I see:

Current discount price 50$
Discount 10$
Pan Studio 40$
------------------
Total 100$

It says Regularly 100$.

Without the 10$ discount, the price will be 60$, not 50$.

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Thanks for another perspective. If that's the case, I'd prefer them to leave Pan Studio off and let me keep the $40! ;)

But I can state definitively that when I renewed WDP in September, the "included" items were: Photo Manager Deluxe, PanoramaStudio, Pack Website M, and Hello Engines!. The listed price was around $50 total (the same as P&DG), and there was no mention of a discount, as there is now... only the main promotion. My assumption is that the stated price of $50 was the promotional price exclusively for the renewal of WDP, and that the other items were $0 cost.

So if what you say is true, they have changed the way that they publicize the sale.

Just to mention: the versions of the "included" items that they offer you are not current. It appears that their tactic is to give you a taste of the product in hopes that you will upgrade for the newer paid version. Nothing wrong with that. It's a sales technique. But one doesn't expect that it would be charged, particularly if it's not what the customer is interested in buying.

Thanks again.

Addendum to precious post responding to browj2:

Pursuant to your suggestion, I checked the invoice that Magix sent for my purchase. Indeed, the only charge listed is for the P&GD. PanStudio shows as $0. So, effectively the only charge is for the main software.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gcellison

Addendum to precious post responding to browj2:

Pursuant to your suggestion, I checked the invoice that Magix sent for my purchase. Indeed, the only charge listed is for the P&GD. PanStudio shows as $0. So, effectively the only charge is for the main software.

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That is correct. I was going to say, no problem, without Pan Studio, the price is Regularly 60$, 50$ after the 10$ discount. As you found, Pan Studio, in theory, is 0$ either way. BTW, it is a good program.

The offers for new and update change often. Take a look at the offerings for Movie Edit Pro Plus and Premium, New and Update and you'll see significant differences. For New, Plus has third party plugins (HitFilm) and a discount, Premium has none, although it has other stuff. Upgrade in both cases has a discount and third party plugins.

Sometimes, the price of Premium Upgrade with plugins is the same as that for Plus, so it pays to shop and save, shop and compare. Watch for special deals.

The value of the other programs aside... you don't find it misleading that Magix doesn't make clear the regular prices per item and the true amount they are discounting? The publicity shows a promotional price of $49.99 (regular price $99.94). In big red letters below that, it states that until 25 March, there is a $10 discount. $10 does not occur anywhere else... in the difference of regular vs. promotional prices... in the supposed value of the apps, etc.

For me, the two offers are represented as independent... in addition to the promotional price, you get an additional $10 off if you buy before 25 March.

Whatever Magix's intention, and however it might be argued that one can tilt one's head to the left and squint while holding one's breath to understand the meaning, the fact remains that many others will interpret it the same way as I did. Most perhaps will not notice that the charge amount does not match the amount they understood. But the deception is the same.

I burn no bridges... but I am seriously considering my relationship with Magix. Unfortunate. I have enjoyed their products, paid a lot for them, and think that all-in-all they are a great value. But if the company is now into deceptive tactics, it may be time to look elsewhere.

Value is one thing, the real issue about this purchase is clarity.

If you are unhappy and haven't registered the software you should be able to get a refund if your country has distance selling regulations.

Most companies doing this kind of promotion use a coupon mechanism that the purchaser types in on checkout - this makes it clear what's going on

I have seen some companies sell discounted goods and put "Price includes discount" to make it crystal clear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gcellison

The value of the other programs aside... you don't find it misleading that Magix doesn't make clear the regular prices per item and the true amount they are discounting? The publicity shows a promotional price of $49.99 (regular price $99.94). In big red letters below that, it states that until 25 March, there is a $10 discount. $10 does not occur anywhere else... in the difference of regular vs. promotional prices... in the supposed value of the apps, etc.

For me, the two offers are represented as independent... in addition to the promotional price, you get an additional $10 off if you buy before 25 March.

Whatever Magix's intention, and however it might be argued that one can tilt one's head to the left and squint while holding one's breath to understand the meaning, the fact remains that many others will interpret it the same way as I did. Most perhaps will not notice that the charge amount does not match the amount they understood. But the deception is the same.

I burn no bridges... but I am seriously considering my relationship with Magix. Unfortunate. I have enjoyed their products, paid a lot for them, and think that all-in-all they are a great value. But if the company is now into deceptive tactics, it may be time to look elsewhere.

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The same "scam" caught me with P&GD9 a few years ago. I'm wise to it now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pauland

Value is one thing, the real issue about this purchase is clarity.

If you are unhappy and haven't registered the software you should be able to get a refund if your country has distance selling regulations.

Most companies doing this kind of promotion use a coupon mechanism that the purchaser types in on checkout - this makes it clear what's going on

I have seen some companies sell discounted goods and put "Price includes discount" to make it crystal clear.

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Thanks, pauland.

Exactly what I was thinking.

I spent quite a bit of time watching the tutorials for P&GD and learning the functionality (admittedly, very quickly). I really like the program. On the other hand, it must be said that the proper tutorials ended back in 2017, when the Xara mentality was still prevalent. Magix seems to be squandering a very loyal user base by not developing and fostering the Xara desktop line. And now with questionable sales tactics...

On the advice I've received here, I have decided to request a reimbursement for the software. This is definitely not because of the $10. (I would have probably paid more if the price was made clear). It is more the lack of confidence I am feeling right now in the company. Besides, the new version 17 will be out soon, and the debugged version 17 a bit afterwards. At that point, I will reconsider the purchase. Perhaps my frame of mind will improve.

Thanks again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ss-kalm

The same "scam" caught me with P&GD9 a few years ago. I'm wise to it now.

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Thanks ss.

Me too, now. I guess we live and learn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gcellison

The value of the other programs aside... you don't find it misleading that Magix doesn't make clear the regular prices per item and the true amount they are discounting? The publicity shows a promotional price of $49.99 (regular price $99.94). In big red letters below that, it states that until 25 March, there is a $10 discount. $10 does not occur anywhere else... in the difference of regular vs. promotional prices... in the supposed value of the apps, etc.

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As you indicate, the "promotional price of $49.99.." is the price that you pay.

@ss-kalm: What scam is there in stating the price that you will actually pay? It is the "promotional price."

Regardless of all the convoluted math to try and find a $10.00 discount some other way, they specifically state ... $49.99 - Valid until March 25, 2020 - $10.00 discount ... Nowhere in the add does it say regularly $59.99, so it implies that it's $49.99, but until March 25, 2020 there's a $10.00 discount.

It's really not fair to include the value of something that people don't want that's thrown in free to calculate a $10 discount.

The way I read that ad, (have read in the past, and still read - even knowing it's not true) the price should be $39.99 and that's what I would have (and did - except the Canadian equivalent) expected to pay.

Personally, I'd rather they said it's $49.99 but if you don't want this FREE software we're including with it, we'll knock another $10.00 off.

I've had offers where they have included Photo managers and other software that I didn't want and I've never even bothered to install them because they are useless (read that as valueless) to me. If I'd have wanted other software I'd have bought it.

Good marketing instils confidence in the product/company.
Bad marketing leaves a customer feeling deceived and subsequently devalues the product/company.

I haven't used Xara long enough to have any nostalgia or brand loyalty. I use Xara because I like the product.
I don't know, and nor do I care, who creates/maintains the product and who markets the product. However, if I didn't know how to stop the nag screens I would be actively looking for alternatives, and if ever the yearly update becomes too much of a circus I shall also begin the hunt for an alternative.

The above isn't a stab at anyone, or anything, it's just the way I work with regards to any supplier of any product. I have changed email clients, office suites, DAWs and video editors. The average customer has no problem in jumping ship for whatever reason.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ss-kalm

Regardless of all the convoluted math to try and find a $10.00 discount some other way, they specifically state ... $49.99 - Valid until March 25, 2020 - $10.00 discount ... Nowhere in the add does it say regularly $59.99, so it implies that it's $49.99, but until March 25, 2020 there's a $10.00 discount.

It's really not fair to include the value of something that people don't want that's thrown in free to calculate a $10 discount.

The way I read that ad, (have read in the past, and still read - even knowing it's not true) the price should be $39.99 and that's what I would have (and did - except the Canadian equivalent) expected to pay.

Personally, I'd rather they said it's $49.99 but if you don't want this FREE software we're including with it, we'll knock another $10.00 off.

I've had offers where they have included Photo managers and other software that I didn't want and I've never even bothered to install them because they are useless (read that as valueless) to me. If I'd have wanted other software I'd have bought it.

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Hi Keith,

Look at the advert in the first thread. Right beside the price, in bold, of $49.99, it says "Regularly $99.94."
Below that it gives the details - $10 discount, Pan Studio "$39.95 value." Do the math.

As I stated once before, if you don't want Pan Studio, then fine, the promotional price is still $49.99.

I expect to pay the price that is quoted, not to have to do some arithmetic to figure it out. You are falsely expecting a discount on the discounted price with the actual price remaining a mystery until checkout. If Magix was offering a discount at checkout, it would be written differently, probably with a discount code to be used upon checkout and it would be up to you to actually apply it. Magix often does this.

On the Magix site for Xara P&GD, click on Update to see the price. It is $39.99US - after the $20 discount shown. By your thinking, one should be paying $19.99. Not right.

To expand on that a bit, if they said that the promotional price was $50, the regular price $140, less Pan Studio $40, less a $50 discount, would you be expecting to pay nothing?

Since you said that you almost got caught in this "scam" I can only assume that you avoided it by waiting until Magix removed the discount and put the price back to $59.99. Saved from the scam of having to pay less money.

Then, of course, you would probably be upset because you missed the promotion, just like those on the Magix Samplitude forum who saw the price for Samplitude Pro X Suite offered at $149 for months and then complained when it went to $199. But, Magix stated that it was a promotional price with a $50 discount and good until a certain date. Some users complained that the $149 was actually the price and the discount was just a marketing ploy because Magix should have had periods when there was no promotion. Well, surprise, surprise! One day, not long ago when the deadline passed, no more discount. Now the users complained that this wasn't fair, Magix raised the price before they could take advantage of the discount, etc. Seems like not everybody can be pleased.

I really don't want to continue on arguing this. Read what is written in adverts, carefully. Don't make assumptions. If you don't understand something about the pricing or what is being offered or whatever, ask here on the forum or ask Magix, before purchasing.

browj2,

I´m actually glad that someone wants to defend Magix. Many of us clearly see it differently.

In the end, what ChrisM wrote says it all. If a company presents its pricing in a confusing manner and leads the buyer to believe they’re getting a better price than they are, it is bad marketing and bad for the company’s reputation.

Whether Magix is doing so intentionally or not, it is clear that a portion of their clientele misinterprets their pricing. As this happened to ss-kalm in the past, and surely I am not the second one, Magix should rethink the way it presents the numbers. It’s bad for their business.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by browj2

I really don't want to continue on arguing this.

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then don't, it is always your choice ;)

but yes it is good to get more than one point of view

lets replace 'scam' with 'disingenuous' a word that has several usages, for example being 'economic with the truth', or presenting information in a way that, although true in the strict sense, gives a false impression - I don't say the former applies, but the latter does [and we might well extend this to the update service]

one of the reasons that information regarding ingredients in food has to be labelled in a clear manner is to prevent it from being presented disingenuously and misleading people

compared to that, magix is small beer, but rationalise it any way you like, you will never convince me that it is not a tactic used by a company that would otherwise struggle to shift product

Quote:

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Read what is written in adverts, carefully. Don't make assumptions

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good advice, but here it is hindsight, borne of experience in the ways of magix; I would think that is what the OP thought they had done, which is the whole point

This is how to do a discount! :D;)

Attachment 126624

indeed; the company is well named in more ways than just graphices ;)

xara have now stepped up to the plate: https://www.talkgraphics.com/showthr...ra-Cloud-Offer

come on magix.... :p

Sorry, just had to add this as Magix makes my point.

Attachment 126626

According to most of you, Magix should be paying me $151C to get Video Pro X upgrade.

i don't think anyone doubts your point john.. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by browj2

Sorry, just had to add this as Magix makes my point.

Attachment 126626

According to most of you, Magix should be paying me $151C to get Video Pro X upgrade.

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No, Magix are suggesting it bills normally people C$549. If that was the actual sales price over any prior period then all would be rosy.
The noise from adding in products that have a value of C$X and C$Y and then immediately discounting C$(X+Y) is total hokum. Magix is trying to "give away" products it cannot sell in a normal manner to people who rarely need them anyhow.

All this does is stress customers who think the cut-off date is the end of any further offer of a reduction; all Magix then does is dust down another range of freebies.
All one needs to do is focus on is the asking price. If, at the same time, the freebies are actually of use then you are in the money.

For XDPX, over recent aeons, the list price and the offer price has been slowly reducing as proved by the original charge I incurred on first purchase.
All this would do for me is "make do and mend" with my existing version until the proce drops or so new features genuinely were of merit.

Acorn

ok :D maybe some one does...

seriously though... there is a difference between explaining what magix are doing... and justifying it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by browj2

Sorry, just had to add this as Magix makes my point.

Attachment 126626

According to most of you, Magix should be paying me $151C to get Video Pro X upgrade.

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LOL. If the offer I saw had indicated that they would pay me, I would have been suspicious indeed and logically determined that that was not their intention. Unfortunately for me, I looked only at the software I was interested in buying. As it is not unreasonable to believe that a $10 discount off a $50 price tag is possible, I did not draw the same conclusion.

I've already said: If Magix leads even a part of its reasonably intelligent customers to misinterpret their publicity, they need to present it in another way. It's in their own interest. Otherwise, they foster bad feelings and will lose those customers.

All I can suggest is that you advise Magix and tell them how they could better display the price.

The expression 'sharp practice' is probably known to all and I would say that the behaviour of MagixMarketing in this regard, fits like a glove.
It was a bad day's work when Xara made its pact with the devil.