Any compelling reason to keep renewing Pro X annual licence??

My XDPX licence expired recently and I really can't see any reason to bother upgrading any more.

Apart from the fact it now only £20 difference between buying new and renewing, looking at what Xara give you in the couple of updates you get every year there doesn't seem anything compelling. They just seem to tinker around the edges with minor web-oriented tweaks - nothing substantive like you used to get before this '365' model came in.

Am I doing Xara a disservice here?

I'll probably get roasted for this, but I look upon it as a development donation.

We all expect great things like a complete rebuild of the GUI and major changes to just about every aspect of the software. Money is needed for that and although I, like you and many others, don't see the value in much of the updated stuff I feel I never will unless there's a surplus of cash to do so.

I like Xara. It has given me pocket money, taught me a lot about graphics and provided a lot of entertainment through that learning. I think the software is worth supporting, so I do.

I have earned more money than I have paid out to Xara so in my case I reluctantly buy in; I have even gone Pro Xara Cloud!

I believe my subscriptions, my ongoing use of the products and TG contributions entitle me to raise issues with the current set-up.
My full-on hate is the roll back to your purchase version on Update Service expiry and the loss of on-line access. I have offered up alternatives to bypass these irritations; Xara remains in a niggardly mindset over these.

I look on this festive season for some enlightenment.
Xara is suggesting that Version 17 will be a storker. I read into this adaptive websites and the removal of the tired pixel-placement fudge of multiple SPANs for multi-line text. Do note, I have no evidence for this and that is is all from a web perspective so I may be doing Xara a disservice or even building hope on a whisper.

I have held back from jumping across to Nicepage.
I have PineGrow PRO with WordPress and Pinegrow is now offering up Pinegrow Interactions (using the very, very powerful Greensock); something Xara almost does, but badly.
I have the Affinity range.
I hand-code as I need to interact with data.

For most, the answer your two questions - No & No.

Xara is losing the battle.
Until something concrete, Bah Humbug from Xara to All.

Acorn

Quote:

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I think the software is worth supporting, so I do.

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agree, but sadly, that software is no longer XARA in my case, both because of the direction it is crawling in re desktop, and because even donations should go where they are most effective...

Thanks to all who replied. Hope you all had a good Christmas :-)

I'd not used Xara for an extended period this year (I last fired it up around June I think) and when I did get round to running it in October, a message popped up telling me I'd run out of subscription (this expired end of October) and wouldn't be getting any further updates. This includes TWO updates WITHIN the period I'd paid up to (July and October)! I think this is the final nail in the coffin for me.

I can understand your frustration, but it's always a good idea to keep track of programs that have a similar type of expiry date and, in the case of Xara, make sure to have updated and downloaded everything that can be downloaded. Then you can sit it out for a year or two until you either need some new feature or you need to reinstall.

I'm sitting it out, but mainly due to the problem with the interface between Xara and Magix' video programs. The XAR object gets emptied when the video editor project is restarted. Not good. Other than that, there is nothing new that I need, so I'll wait. I've also been trying to get off of the upgrade merry-go-round with other programs; too expensive for little gain.

I've sent a compaint to Magix support. I've paid for all unpdates released to end of October 2019 and to miss out on two out the three issued before that date simply because I didn't check in to the update service is totally unacceptable.

I hope they listen

But it does say in the end user licence agreement that you only have access to the updates whilst your update service is current, so they might not

Quote:

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Originally Posted by browj2

...in the case of Xara, make sure to have updated and downloaded everything that can be downloaded...

---

John, don't you find it petty of Xara not to offer a total local download of assets from the OCC as opposed to vaguely mentioning it in a obscure section of the Support site? I do. The application is then deprived of access to quite basic components when the Update Service expires. Any consequential roll-back to a version that may no long support your published sites is madness. Again, this all comes without very explicit advice.

Those who follow TG may be lucky if they are sufficiently technically savvy. Xara claims it has a very large customer base; there must be a lot of confused and frustrated (ex-)customers out there.

I no longer ensure over any Xara releases.
Acorn

its petty

but it helps their cash flow

go figure

Quote:

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Originally Posted by handrawn

its petty
but it helps their cash flow
go figure

---

I try to. My "ensure" was a typo for "enthuse". Chasing new customers and no looking towards retention is folly.

Acorn

i think i understood that

i am lucky i have no golden handcuffs

I have bought a new license every year so far.
In Xara's belief, one day we will really revolutionize the way we create new drawing tools.
So far unfortunately only warm wind.

The other way round, I see it this way, since using Xara and seriously using it for my graphic work, I have always recovered the cost of renewal several times.

Xara Designer has become a tool that I use every day. It is flexible and performs tasks quickly and reliably. Perfect for me.
Whether it's images, web or complex vector graphics - with Xara I can do it all.

Everything positive so far, but what happened in the last 2 years is not good for me either. I will continue to pursue Xara and support it if necessary.
But all just to the point where the competition has caught up and Xara brings nothing new to distinguish herself from the competition.

All a happy new year!

Tech support came back. The answer is 'no' - I must have an ongoing support arrangement to get updates I'VE ALREADY PAID FOR. Well that's my the last of my money Magix will be getting.

if you want the legal position: you pay for the right to use only, not to own

this has always been the case even before the subscription model, what you got then was the right to use the program without a time limt, but you never got to own the program/updates themselves [ie the code]

same now, except that with the subscription model some parts of the access are time limited

this is all stated in the 'terms and conditions' [EULA] - it catches out a lot of people who don't read and understand them

this is not to defend Xara/magix, personally I think it is a rip off, it's just to say that cavet emptor applies and everyone shouild read them and understand what it is they are actually buying

Quote:

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Originally Posted by handrawn

if you want the legal position: you pay for the right to use only, not to own
this has always been the case even before the subscription model, what you got then was the right to use the program without a time limt, but you never got to own the program/updates themselves [ie the code]
same now, except that with the subscription model some parts of the access are time limited
this is all stated in the 'terms and conditions' [EULA] - it catches out a lot of people who don't read and understand them
this is not to defend Xara/magix, personally I think it is a rip off, it's just to say that cavet emptor applies and everyone shouild read them and understand what it is they are actually buying

---

Towards finding the EULA, how many know where it is?

Read https://www.talkgraphics.com/showthr...?82634-Licence #1 & #10 to ge a readble (not necessarily understandable) RTF version working.
Xara has not exactly rushed to fix this defect.

Happy reading.

Acorn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Acorn

John, don't you find it petty of Xara not to offer a total local download of assets from the OCC as opposed to vaguely mentioning it in a obscure section of the Support site? I do. The application is then deprived of access to quite basic components when the Update Service expires. Any consequential roll-back to a version that may no long support your published sites is madness. Again, this all comes without very explicit advice.

Those who follow TG may be lucky if they are sufficiently technically savvy. Xara claims it has a very large customer base; there must be a lot of confused and frustrated (ex-)customers out there.

I no longer ensure over any Xara releases.
Acorn

---

@Acorn

I've been sick for the last week, great start to a new year. Happy New everyone!

I don't know if I would use the word "petty," but Xara/Magix could do a slightly better job of explaining things to people who don't bother to look at the details behind the asterisks.

The Magix.com website under Xara DPX states, "Worth a million: The Online Content Catalog Discover the Online Content Catalog* with over 1 million freely available stock photos, graphics, illustrations and SmartShapes that you can easily access and use at any time." I find this misleading because: 1) you cannot use at any time after the 1 year period unless you renew; 2) you have to look at the reference to see, "1 full year of access to the Online Content Catalog." This could and should be mentioned right up front, not as an asterisk. It's only 10 words!

Update Service is described near the bottom of the page. "Includes the Update Service for one full year. Every day. Today, tomorrow and for the next 365 days, your website will always have the latest look! Our Update Service is included for free and offers you one full year of automatic software updates with brand new features.***" More asterisks. Look slightly below for the fine-print definition, "With the update service you will receive one full year of new features and updates for free, which can be used indefinitely. If you reinstall the program after one year, you will have access to the basic version without Update Service. After the one-year update service has expired you can extend it for a discounted price." Again, this could simply be put with the main text as it is fundamental to understanding the update service. Furthermore, "If you reinstall the program after one year.....access to the basic version without Update Service" is vague, in my opinion. It should be rewritten as "access to the version that was available when you last purchased or paid for the Update Service..."

The third problem is with getting the complete definition of the Update Service. There is an "i' beside "Update" that shows a reference to the web page definition of Update Service. However, a new user is likely not going to click on this and won't see the definition. Under the big black box that says Update Service, there should be a "See definition of Update Service" link. Right now, there is nothing.

For new users, the email with the activation code should specifically state that you have one-year update service, one-year access to the OCC, and what happens if you have to reinstall after the update service has expired. The same should be stated on a start up nag screen under a heading - Please read this carefully! I don't know what the email says for new users. Perhaps someone can tell us.

Lastly, we get a nag screen a month before the end of the update service period warning us. This should include the warning that there will be no access to the OCC beyond that date and that you may want to download the content, and that should one have to reinstall after update service period has expired the reinstall will revert to the version available when last paid, and any updates during the update service period will be lost.

That said, one way or another, this information was and is available, but the user has to actually read it. I think that even if Xara/Magix did what I suggest, there would still be complaints. Why? Because there are always users who just don't bother to read what is in front of them. Believe me, I see it all of the time on the Magix.info forum. Example, install Movie Edit Pro Plus/Premium, and you are presented with a screen advising you to download and install the additional free content by clicking on the button. You have to click on the box to not show this screen again. You would be surprised to know that we get users on a regular basis who upgraded, turned off this warning box without even bothering to read it, and then complained on the forum that there was no content that they had before or that they were promised and that they've been defrauded by Magix, etc.

Back to Xara. For the history, prior to the introduction of the Update Service, you purchased the version that was available, there was some free content available, but most of the on-line Content was for purchase. I purchased a few website templates and widget packs. If a new version came out 2 months later, you would have to pay to upgrade. With the Update Service, you suddenly got access to all of the OCC - for FREE! All you had to do was download it and you had a year to do so. You also got an advance on any new features/versions that came out during the Update Service one-year period. You did not pay for these; you paid for what was available at that time. If you used any of the new features/versions that came out after the start of the Update Service period, no problem, unless you let the Update Service period expire and then had to reinstall. If you don't have to reinstall, then no problem; just keep on going, which is my case. I know fully well that if I have to reinstall Xara, it will revert to when I last paid, July 2018, not the end of the Update Service. If that should happen, then I can either accept that or simply pay up for a year.

So, for @pgholman , you did not pay for Updates to the end of October 2019. You paid fully for what was available when you paid the year before. You were allowed to get updates/upgrades during the year, subject to the terms of the Update Service, which you should have read and understood. If you did not bother to get the updates before the end of the Update Service period, that is your problem, not Xara's, not Magix'. Sorry to be rough, but that is the way it is. The program still works, doesn't it? On the other hand, if you ever have to reinstall, it is likely that you will not have used any of the new features, so you won't be "forced" to renew. You can now comfortably continue using the program without having to renew. The only problem is that pesky nag screen at start up advising you that your Update Service period expired.

I was not gonna reply in this thread...

While I more or less agree re. updated capabilities during the "update period" (but in the main, I disagree if compared to other, perpetually licensed software, I completely disagree when it comes to bug fix updates in the event of a reinstall. Xara/Magix are basically saying: You purchased software with known and/or unknown defects. We have fixed X number of these defects during your subscription. If you have need to reinstall, though, you will be back to using the defective version unless you give us more money.

Sucky, but it is what it is.

@mwenz

That is a slightly different problem, one that never seems to have been appropriately addressed. I thought that Xara was working on separating bug fixes from updates/upgrades and that one should be able to get all bug fixes for the version installed, be it 15, or 16. I have never heard what happened.

Many of us have the same beef with Magix about their programs, both those with and without the update service. For those without, a new version comes out with new features, new and old bugs, and the previous version is left with some known unfixed bugs. Most annoying. For those programs with the Update Service, we can never get a version without bugs (or at least most bugs fixed), it seems. Even more annoying. I expect, at the very least, that bugs raised by the user community always be fixed asap. We are not beta testers.

When my Update service expired and I was forced to reinstall V15.0 with the STRETCHY/SQUASHY "Bug", I complained to Magix that Kate Moir had stated on the forum that Bug Fixes would be included in the version that was paid for ... so in my mind a bug fix for the stretchy/squashy issue should have been provided (even though Xara thought - wrongly - that this was a new feature). Magix support was very understanding of that issue, and they extended my Update service for 6 months to allow me access to the latest version, so that I wasn't stuck on V15.0. which I considered to be unusable.

Once again, I would like to thank Magix support for that kindness, even though I understood that under the terms of the agreement, I was only entitled to V15.0.

Having said that, it would be nice if Xara provided BUG FIX UPDATES and FEATURE UPDATES, then you know what you get to keep and what you are giving up when your update service expires.

Hi John,

It is a subset of the overall issue.

Yep, Xara was going to look into separation of bug fixes and feature updates. But it hasn't happened. I use little on-line content and when I do the majority of time it is to look at something Acorn points out.

But bug fixes are important to me. As I don't do any webby stuff in an Xara application. I'm just glad that much of XDP as regards drawing content has been rolled into XP&GD. So I chose to "downgrade" and have thus far stayed up to date, simply because it's cheaper to do so compared to XDP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by browj2

I've been sick for the last week, great start to a new year. Happy New everyone!

---

John, I am glad you are back, hale and hearty. HNY!

I too bought into the Widget Packs and Website Templates.
I also have XWDP11.2.5 with perpetual free access to its Online Content Catalogue (OCC).
My time-expired XWDP12/15 versions have a Smart Rectangle, a Text Panel, a Speech Bubble and Photo text panel. Gosh & Golly also for the nags everywhere!

It is this disparity that rankles. Imagine having no access to any roll-over buttons for a Web Designer tool! You cannot create a Stretch Button in XWD(P), you need XDPX.
Throw in an unexpected roll-back to the version you bought and you migh just find your crafted site is no longer editable. How is the ordinary punter to know that enhancement X is an advance view of a feature? The release notes are wholly inadequate. SmartShapes, not.

I buy in because I provide ongoing customer support and would be professionally embarrassed if I had to advise their site was now unsupportable.

Whatever way you dress it, it is a land grab; I have the maps to prove it.

In passing, the over 1m photos statement is total waffle; just sign up to Pixabay directly.
I had a utility that effectively imports the chosen image onto the design page (and at a higher resolution, if wanted) without losing it after a year but its loss was a minor inconvenience (Pixabay now block its pages in a IFRAME).

Acorn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by browj2

@mwenz

That is a slightly different problem, one that never seems to have been appropriately addressed. I thought that Xara was working on separating bug fixes from updates/upgrades and that one should be able to get all bug fixes for the version installed, be it 15, or 16. I have never heard what happened.

Many of us have the same beef with Magix about their programs, both those with and without the update service. For those without, a new version comes out with new features, new and old bugs, and the previous version is left with some known unfixed bugs. Most annoying. For those programs with the Update Service, we can never get a version without bugs (or at least most bugs fixed), it seems. Even more annoying. I expect, at the very least, that bugs raised by the user community always be fixed asap. We are not beta testers.

---

I believe Xara has only made one point release since v11. It seems it would only happen immediately after a major version release. In the current set-up we are gaining a rump of new bugs and barely losing the tail. A situation that forces subscription renewal just on the hope.

Not a satisfactory long-term business model at all.
No amount of complaining will achieve much when Xara has diverted most of its developer effort into the Xara Cloud.

Acorn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by browj2

@Acorn
So, for @pgholman , you did not pay for Updates to the end of October 2019. You paid fully for what was available when you paid the year before. You were allowed to get updates/upgrades during the year, subject to the terms of the Update Service, which you should have read and understood. If you did not bother to get the updates before the end of the Update Service period, that is your problem, not Xara's, not Magix'. Sorry to be rough, but that is the way it is. The program still works, doesn't it? On the other hand, if you ever have to reinstall, it is likely that you will not have used any of the new features, so you won't be "forced" to renew. You can now comfortably continue using the program without having to renew. The only problem is that pesky nag screen at start up advising you that your Update Service period expired.

---

Hi John

Happy New Year to you too.

So imagine this scenario:

I pay for another year in Jan 2019.
Xara issued 3 updates through 2019: May, July and October.
My update agreement expires in November 2019. I decide not to renew.
I have some sort of issue with my PC and have to reinstall in December 2019.

What version of XDPX am I entitled to if:

a) My XDPX had the October update at the point of crash?

or

b) My XDPX had the May update at the point of crash?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gpholman

Hi John

Happy New Year to you too.

So imagine this scenario:

I pay for another year in Jan 2019.
Xara issued 3 updates through 2019: May, July and October.
My update agreement expires in November 2019. I decide not to renew.
I have some sort of issue with my PC and have to reinstall in December 2019.

What version of XDPX am I entitled to if:

a) My XDPX had the October update at the point of crash?

or

b) My XDPX had the May update at the point of crash?

---

Grant, if you are out of cover in November, you revert all the way back to your bought version, which will not even be the one in May.

Xara works from an on-line registration through Magix. It will check you are pre-May and unregistered.

Acorn

Simply put,
You upgrade in Jan>you update in May/Okt/Nov and you re install in Dec>you'll be reverted to the Jan version and lose all updates

Caveat Emptor.

ibid - post #15 last paragraph ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gpholman

Hi John

Happy New Year to you too.

So imagine this scenario:

I pay for another year in Jan 2019.
Xara issued 3 updates through 2019: May, July and October.
My update agreement expires in November 2019. I decide not to renew.
I have some sort of issue with my PC and have to reinstall in December 2019.

What version of XDPX am I entitled to if:

a) My XDPX had the October update at the point of crash?

or

b) My XDPX had the May update at the point of crash?

---

Grant,

I don't quite follow your logic. You say that you pay for another year in Jan 2019, but that the Update Service (not update agreement) expires in Nov. 2019. How can this be?

The Update Service is for 1 year from the date that you last paid, which you state is January something. Exact dates count.

Second point. Why are you reinstalling? I have had to reinstall Xara twice over many years, if I recall correctly. Once when my main HD was failing and I replaced it and reinstalled Windows, the second possibly when I went from W7 to W10. I often see people reinstalling software for no valid reason, because of a crash, because something didn't work the way they thought it should, because of a bug. Reinstallation most likely does not resolve these issues.

I run Xara in a virtual machine. I keep it backed up to a NAS. System gets corrupted or drive fails, copy it back. I keep all my work on the host and the NAS. No worries.

--
Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today.
Teach a man to use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks, or even months unless you give him your email address.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Quote:

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Originally Posted by browj2

Grant,

I don't quite follow your logic. You say that you pay for another year in Jan 2019, but that the Update Service (not update agreement) expires in Nov. 2019. How can this be?

The Update Service is for 1 year from the date that you last paid, which you state is January something. Exact dates count.

Second point. Why are you reinstalling? I have had to reinstall Xara twice over many years, if I recall correctly. Once when my main HD was failing and I replaced it and reinstalled Windows, the second possibly when I went from W7 to W10. I often see people reinstalling software for no valid reason, because of a crash, because something didn't work the way they thought it should, because of a bug. Reinstallation most likely does not resolve these issues.

---

Hi John

This was a hypothetical scenario.

Regards
Grant

I preferred the old model where you upgraded each year when a major version was released. Ever since Xara switched to the subscription model I have become disillusioned with XDP Pro. We were promised regular updates of features rather than having to wait until the annual update. In my view, this hasn't happened. Updates have been few and far between, and IMHO fairly mediocre. There certainly hasn't been the regular release of new features I was expecting.

I have been using Xara products for many, many years. I'm still happy with the XDP Pro that I have, and I use it quite regularly, but for the first time I have decided not to renew my update subscription.

As an aside, another software company did the same thing with the same intention in mind, ie. subscription model with regular updates. Besides a couple of bug fixes, they haven't released any updates in over 2 years.

So it appears Xara aren't the only one not living up to their promise. At least that's the way I perceive it.

= Steve

If there were real updates/upgrades I could live with the model but even that isn't the case and my guess is still that the desktop users of xara products are paying for the development of the saas product.
Like netflix,disney+,spotify,........ it's a cloud/online model but people can only spend so much in a month and rather like to save up for an annual upgrade for software.
I think xara is betting on business owners to step in and put away with the hobby users,this isn't likely to happen as the big mud company has a better grip.
As far as I remember Magix products are toy software and they had no real role in the professional world.
So why xara chose,if it even was a choice?, to go to with magix still beats me.
They better could have gone the Serif way or even have teamed up with the Nottingham clan.

howdy folks

First – I'm getting back into this after a couple years of absence. I'm considering upgrading my Designer Pro X11 to the current version. Currently I have Designer installed on my desktop PC and on my notebook. In upgrading to X16 will I be able to upgrade both installations?

Seccond – Is Designer now an annual subscription animal? I frankly don't even recall how the system worked before.

t h x

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cursor

howdy folks
First – I'm getting back into this after a couple years of absence. I'm considering upgrading my Designer Pro X11 to the current version. Currently I have Designer installed on my desktop PC and on my notebook. In upgrading to X16 will I be able to upgrade both installations?
Seccond – Is Designer now an annual subscription animal? I frankly don't even recall how the system worked before.
t h x

---

Q the First - Yes.
Q the Second - with XDPXv11, you had a rough access to the v11 Online Content Catalogue (OCC). This remainder accessible for free ni XDPXv11 so do not uninstall your current product on either machine. v11 is an ideal fallback.

use https://www.xara.com/us/designer-pro/whats-new/ & https://www.xara.com/uk/designer-pro/whats-new/older/ for a catch-up.

Check through for the features you are likely to use. If there is a must-have item, upgrade; if it seems nice-to-have, perhaps save your money for a bit longer.

Do try the v16.3 trial first off. Download XWDPv16.3 first and get used to what it offers then go for XDPXv16.3 trial for your final decision check-over.
peruse http://downloadsv16.xara.com/web/catalog/index.html to see the types of thing now available - you won't be able to integrate them but you get a flavour.

Sign up for Xara Cloud (free) and look at https://xara.com/templates/new/. Xara Cloud will let you play with a number of the new SmartShapes; these become dumb in v11 but it is a cheap (free), limited way of getting the smarts into your designs.

v11 is still a worthy application.

The key difference in the licensing arrangements is up to v11, updates were annual. Now they are haphazard, spread over the year; Xara promised 3 to 4, luck yo get 2 or 3. You now lose the OCC access after one year.
Costs are dropping.

Acorn

Thanks Acorn. I have upgraded. I'm now anxious to dig in and learn ... then to 'do'.

Nice to see you back Cursor.

I too question the value of paying 100€ for an update when a full version is not that much more. It has me a little confused. Xara, please don't insult my intelligence by throwing in "free" software add-ons for which I have no desire for.

I am no longer using Xara to make a living but I enjoy volunteering myself skills to help when I can.

I am all for paying an update fee. Given the modest improvements being made year to year and the fact that I am now semi-retired, I think an update fee in the vicinity of 50 € is adequate.

I am not expert with the program but I've used it for enough years that I am very comfortable with it. I would be happy to update the software but not for any prince. Sorry.

Phillip

A sorry state of affairs. I am reminded of this...

Yes, as through this world I've wandered
I've seen lots of funny men;
Some will rob you with a six-gun,
And some with a fountain pen.

Woody Guthrie;
from ¨Pretty Boy Floyd¨

Quote:

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Originally Posted by houseofman

I would be happy to update the software but not for any prince. Sorry. Phillip

---

I believe with Xara's past connections with Corel, you might get Prince Harry thrown in for free.

Acorn