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And thereby lays the problem Kate, the frustration, the feeling of abandonment, the lack of understanding regarding the update service of loyal users .Quote:
We used to release free patches addressing critical issues, typically soon after a major release – but if it happened that there were bug fixes after the next major version then you could only get them by buying an upgrade.
If there's dissatisfaction just close the thread, problem solved!
Genius...I wish I'd thought of that :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Egg Bramhill
Actually just seen the response to my comment, which was not childish...the word he was looking for was puerile...and seeing as the overbearing and sanctimonious response to me:
(Hi Steward, I've deleted your childish comment and locked this thread. Please remain civil and follow the rules of the forums. That's all.
Kind Regards
Rob)
My further response is that my name is STEWART, no D, and if you are going to give me abuse at least get my name right. I will assume this further comment will be deleted, but you can rest assured the screenshots of this discussion will be sent to Magix and Xara along with details of my loyal support since the nineties, and further detailing how the ugrade I looked at this morning will not be enacted and I won't buy any other Xara or Magix products if that is how we, the people who pay the wages of Xara employees, are spoken to by those.
Might be childish/puerile, but hey ho..there you go
ahem... Kate is a she...
Kate the post before you closed that thread keith asked a question- I would be interested in the answer as I am sure would he
EDit - ok we are at cross puropes here - Stewart your quote is not from the thread Egg was referring to is it ?
I think it is, and I think Egg is making a general observation that might encompass a couple of issues.
I took exception to a high handed attitude and my comment was deleted, an unforgivable insult on a forum unless it is truly abusive, which it was not, and the thread locked. Naughty and high handed especially when you consider I have been a loyal Xara customer and bought EVERY product since 1994. I don't appreciate it and won't accept it; NEVER delete a comment, that is puerile and arrogant in the extreme.
ah but some comments can be pretty bad - since I did not see yours I cannot be anything but neutral on that issue
sure egg is making a general point - my bad for assuming you were quoting from the same thread - his quote was from the thread kate closed - yours from the one rob closed after deleting your post - I should have read this thread a bit more carefully :o
I understand...but I take exception to being called childish and uncivil when I was not, and won't accept I was.
I'll take it further but I think me and Xara have now after a long time parted company, and I don't think I'm the first or will be the last.
I used to get annoyed about such things... but then something happened that made me put everything into perspective, now I don't give a damn - it's not as if you are being called childish by anyone who matters to you personally, is it? And Rob is a very nice and helpful guy.. maybe just needs more air miles as a mod under his wing....
Possibly he does, and of course he, personally as an individual or his opinion, doesn't matter in any way shape or form in the slightest to me, but I'm looking at in the wider perspective of the whole discussion on Xara and it's products, and disappointment and frustration many feel how the software has gone and his attitude seems to me to be synonymous with the general malaise towards customers that seems to have developed.Quote:
Originally Posted by handrawn
2018 is the first year in decades that I can remember that AT LEAST one Xara product hasn't been upgraded by me, and I see no reason to do so now, and that is disappointing and while Rob might be helpful and very nice...I used to pay for that and was happy to do so, not to mention recommendations, but no more.
If Xara/Magix continues to dictate to customers what it says they want instead of actually listening to what they want and need, they'll find themselves dictating to the wind.
Okay, I'll reiterate the question i asked in the earlier thread ... since it was arbitrarily closed without an answer ...
Just to be clear about point fixes ...
The version I bought was 15.0 which I considered needed the squash/stretch issue fixing. This was fixed in 15.1, but additional items were also added in 15.1.
So is 15.1 a "point fix"? or am I only entitled to 15.0?
@All, first off thank you to Egg to rekindling the Thread - can we all ensure that it does remain on topic?Quote:
Originally Posted by ss-kalm
@Keith
I have been (im-)patiently trying to get Xara to see that the Update Service leaves a chasm around bug fixes.
Its answer to your question is you will be able to "keep" v15.1, or v15.2 or v15.3, if such existed, and the bug fixes in these versions. So if you bought v 15.0, and in the year of your cover v15.4 was released, you would be entitled to use the added capabilities, the bug fixes and all downloaded content. You could even stop your version at v15.0, v15.1, v15.2 or v15.3; if you choose to upgrade to v15.4 and revert, some downloaded content and capabilities may not operate.
All is well. Until you are out of cover.
Use Case 1: You decide you want a second program download. All you get is v15.0.
Use case 2: You decide to disable the program on one machine to move to another. All you can get is v15.0.
Use Case 3: You update MS Windows. For Reasons, Xara does not handshake with your machine properly and you need to re-activate. All you get is v15.0.
Use Case 4: Your machine breaks. All you get is V15.0.
If Xara has created a point release for v15.0 then all you could download thereafter would be v15.0pr; you would at least have the bug fixes for v15.0 available.
There would not seem to be a way for a point release for a v15.1, v15.2, v15.3 or v15.4 to be rolled back into a cumulative release, accessible to all as there would then be code for bug fixes in the point release that might not apply as the capability is not there.
Look at it this way, if you use the newest capabilities in your web design then go out of cover and revert to an earlier version then aspects of your site will not be editable or even function.
It get worse if you look at the Online Content Catalogue as it is being updated behind the scenes on a frequent basis. Some updates include Smart Shapes that will only work with the version Named in the Shape. So if you download a Smart Shape at V15.2, Xara can "update" or even delete it for v15.3, v15.4, v16.0 or whatever and you get another mess to fight through.
In summary, you should get access to all bug fixes delivered by v15.4. If you can hold onto that version, all is well. If you need to re-install, you only get v15.0pr at best and lose all other bug fixes, and new capability.
Acorn
as long as point releases are available, even on a new computer, then on the graphics side, leaving out the online stuff, it's no different to to the old model as Kate said - if point releases are not available on a new computer then it is regression and the big question is WHY ?
the situation as outlined by acorn is just ridiculous - as I see it that means you have no security at all in the medium to long term for ongoing maintenance - who thinks this is a good idea, the same person[s] who don't understand why you might want to distort a bitmap ? - just who is the target user ?
you know, a sensible and prudent person might just come to the conclusion that it would better to use a different program; it may all make sense in the context of Xara Cloud, I don't use it so I don't know, but as far as the desktop is concerned XaraMagix appear never to have heard of the wisdom of Keeping It Simple
This time I've just got to ask you to ignore Acorn's answers on the bug fixes. It's just not as complicated in reality as it is in Acorn's mind! The answer is in the Update Service document @ http://shared.xara.com/diNpZUgi2O/
"If I re-download the version I purchased after my Update Service has expired, how will I get any bug fixes you release? If there are bug fixes we consider critical we release a point update. For example Designer Pro 12.6.0 was followed by 12.6.1 and 12.6.2 which had bug fixes but no new features. If you are entitled to 12.6.0 and download it, it will automatically update to 12.6.2, even if 12.6.2 was released after your Update Service expired."
It doesn't matter what computer you (re) install it on, it doesn't matter if your Update Service has expired, it doesn't matter if you have to update windows - if for example you purchased 12.8 and reinstall it for whatever reason you will automatically get updated to 12.8.1. Not all versions will have bug fix releases like 12.6 (12.6.2) and 12.8 (12.8.1), we will decide if there are critical bug fixes that require it. As I also mentioned in the other thread, in effect this isn't significantly different to our policy on bug fixes prior to the Update Service.
ss-kalm, apologies, I should have answered your question before closing. Since no v15s have expired yet (and therefore no-one can be falling back to 15 on re-installation) we haven't really considered it carefully to be honest. In other words I don't know yet!
Kate Moir
Acorn, I'm trying to work out what is behind your confusion on this particular issue of the bug fixes. And I think it might be this: 15.1 was not a bug fix for 15.0. It was an update with new features such as text inside shapes and tables - as described in our Release Notes @ http://releasenotes.xara.hosting/designer-pro/ (May 2018). *If* there were to be a bug fix release for 15.1 it would be 15.1.1 - it would have no new features, it might not even be public, but an installed or re-installed 15.1 would automatically update to 15.1.1.
Does that help?!
Kate Moir
Kate, thank you for your patience and I am happy for you to advise others to leave my concerns into the TL;DR category.Quote:
Originally Posted by webmaster
Let's say there is a Squishy/Squashy bug fix at v15.1 and a PDF bug fixed at v15.2. Had I bought in at v15.0, what happens when I am out of cover and have to re-install? I would only be able to access v15.0.1. No Squishy/Squahy fix, no PDF fix.
Acorn
This was ss-kalm's question, more or less. The (lack of) answer is that we haven't come to any decision yet on v15 patches - no v15s expire before the end of November.Quote:
Originally Posted by Acorn
Kate Moir
Risking your wrath, I'm going to close this thread too, because I think we're basically re-iterating The right thing to do pt 1. But I am happy to receive PMs from anyone who still has questions on this issue, or suggestions for making the Update Service document clearer about the bug fixes.
Kate Moir