Printable View
Used to using the ribbon style GUI like MS has made popular with the different tabs and all the features within. Not a fan of tool bars all over the screen. Any chance Web Designer might have this in the future? And yes the full screen hot key is a help, still. Being able to change the color would also be a bonus. Other than gray or white.
Regards
Try this press ALT,CTRL,Shift,S all at once.
As far as a more MS UI, I don't think I am going out on a limb to say, probably never going to happen. I have been using Xara in one form or another since the mid 90s and some here even longer. We are used to how the product works and would not be happy campers were it to change.
+1 Gary
Ciao
Roly
+1
That is completely understandable.
+ 1/3 :(
a ribbon style GUI may be fine for web design [I wouldn't know] but for drawing there are great advantages in floating palettes; true it would be even better if the document windows could be floated outside of the GUI just like almost every other modern graphics program I can think of, and I would rather see this; no way can I see there being one GUI for web and one for graphics...
so that puts me with Gary too on this one...
It's not necessary to have lots of tool bars open to use the program productively. The tools offer context sensitive controls in the infobar, the right-click menus offer context sensitive commands, there are keyboard shortcuts and you can make your own custom bars contain just the controls you need.
Phil
Hi Phil
much as I love keystrokes, I grew up with them, having a mouse, a keyboard, a cintiq, and reference sketches all on the same desk is not practical - the keyboard is the first to go when drawing with said cintiq [you can program some in up to a point, but only so many - on screen palettes/toolbars are easier for me in this regard]
I agree about custom toolbars [though we need separate sets for normal and full screen modes]
whilst you are here any chance of floating document windows? - just to make it easier for those of us perverse enough to use three monitors [the cintiq being one of course]
Do you mean like the Cascading Windows option?Quote:
whilst you are here any chance of floating document windows?
no I mean taking the document window out of the UI - you can do this with palettes, but not with documents
You can stretch the UI, but only so far across an extended desktop, and if you have two monitors side by side and one [ie cintiq] 'beneath' then it is a little 'okard' [tiresome]
as in [limited to one monitor for the purpose of example]:
Attachment 116577
I just pointed out that keyboard shortcuts could help avoid having lots of bars open, not saying you have to use them to be productive (I don't).
The button bars layouts are stored separately for normal and full screen modes so you can have different custom bars for each, I think.
Sorry, but it's very unlikely that document windows will be separated from the main "frame" window in the near future.
BTW: Remember that you should be increasingly looking to cloud.ixara.com to answer your questions/wishes and that can, for instance, run documents in separate windows (even though there's still vast amounts of things it can't do yet).
Phil
sure Phil :) - and thanks for the reply re document windows
as for clould.ixara.com [still in beta I believe?] - whilst I know this will be very useful to many, the idea of creating in the cloud does not appeal - I am quite prepared to be called old-fashioned [because in many ways I am]
Re. Creating in the cloud:
Here's an open question to everyone: Imagine that cloud.ixara.com can do everything that Designer can do in the desktop, and maybe more, with a more modern UI. Would you still then prefer to use the desktop version to create and if so why? (Being old-fashioned is an acceptable answer.)
[Sorry, this is a bit off-topic but it flows from the discussion above.]
Phil
I absolutely would not be using an on-line version of XDP.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilM
I absolutely hate even on-line content. But running something like XDP on-line? Hah.
On-line XDP may be OK for some small web site work. But really, Phil, try creating a poster that locally weighs in at 25 megs. And make a lot of changes while talking live with a client, produce a small-weight PDF and email it while still on the phone.
Or ... or ... (I could think of real-world--my world--examples all day.)
There is nothing I create--for print, remember--that would benefit from an on-line version and only very real drawbacks. That aside from the fact that I am not always on-line. One computer I have isn't even connected and likely never will be.
I am old fashioned and prefer to work on a desktop. That said I can see the benefit of making changes when you are not at your desk on an iPhone or tablet or giving a client the ability to change/update parts of a site. But I am not doing that much professional work these days. But I really like a large screen (24" I know that is not considered large these days).
Note: Working online does not mean working away from the desktop or using less powerful devices (although those things would be possible).
It simply means that instead of the software running directly in Windows, it now runs inside a browser window and partly on a remote server - but still on the exact same hardware as the desktop version, with mouse, drawing tablet, multiple high-res screens, etc. etc... Whatever you've got now.
Phil
Yes, I fully understand that, Phil.
And no, I still will not ever use an on-line version of XDP.
Mike, Are you assuming that an online version of the program would be difficult to use for very large files (large in terms of storage/communication byte size)?
The idea is that the local browser-based program and the server would cooperate to deliver a very responsive UI no matter how complex the file.
If that design goal can be achieved then there's an obvious benefit to your scenario above: Your client can be looking at the full-fat file while you are editing it and talking to him about it. No need for small PDFs or email and very much quicker response to client feedback.
Phil
All good premises, Phil (re viewing in real-time at both ends).
Communication response times only matter if I am always connected. No Internet outages. No hiccups on Xara's part (how stable is the content catalog, the JavaScript, etc.,?). No sunspots...The reality is there are browser-based drawing tools right now. And I will not use them other than to play with, to see what the fuss is about for certain work.
There's several places for charting via a browser. And, I'll pay the money for Visio or whatever. There is a site that has great drawing concepts--like connecting nodes anywhere along a path and as many path connecting anywhere along a shape. And it doesn't help my design work one iota. And while they may not be using a scalable server, I cannot imagine the server traffic is that high yet and the desktop version of AD (which is not as fast as XDP) blows its response time out of the water.
I do not trust tools that depend on a connection. Whether it is problems on your end or mine, or the lack of being able to be connected, response times are simply not going to be on par with a desktop. As well, what happens when browser code goes gunny bag because of an update? Or an MS update?
I know that right now, or two seconds, 10 minutes or 5 hours or days from now, I will be able to start XDP and run it just fine. Can you say the same to Xara's up-time? That no matter when I wish to draw, Xara's servers will be working? That my Internet connection remains viable? Of course you cannot. Xara's had many hiccups for the on-line content since v.12 was introduced. Heck, I don't even know how many people gave up. But you do or at least can look through the support logs.
I am not and will not always be connected. I will be sitting at a cafe between meetings where Internet via slow Wi-Fi happens now.
XDP is highly over-priced. Especially considering the alternatives that make up for XDProfessional's lack of up to date features and capabilities. And they are cross-platform which I suppose is one of the business problems Xara is trying to solve. But the proper way isn't some on-line XDP. It's to actually code anew again. This all reminds me of the saying, Everyone wants to go to heaven, no one wants to die. While Xara may think this is the only option--and it may be for the short term--it is not the way forward.
It is perfectly fine for Xara to invest in this as a means to go forward. It is after all not my business. But I do not know of one business decision that could help Serif more than this one.
Mike
What Mike says.
@Phill:Where is the possibility to save the workspace?Quote:
It's not necessary to have lots of tool bars open to use the program productively. The tools offer context sensitive controls in the infobar, the right-click menus offer context sensitive commands, there are keyboard shortcuts and you can make your own custom bars contain just the controls you need.
I 've my own workspace and every time Xara crash (this is two or more times in a hour when I work on big projects for professional offsetprinting) I'd to reorder my workspace. The reg-hack to save the MormalBar.reg works not perfect. Ever I recontruct it, are the toolbars on an other place or other thinks are in it. This is frustrating and steels my productivity time.
In the last time I use more and more Affinity Designer and Photo and I see that I can do almost the thinks I do in XDP without the frustration of crashing and then reorder my workspace again. The only I miss is the web think.
If Xara will go the way in the cloud and not the local (desktop) program install, so without me. In this case I will quit with Xara and spend my money elswhere.
Servus Ernie
Ernie,
I was talking about the program maintaining different workspaces for normal and full-screen modes. They are both saved when the program quits cleanly. If the program crashes or if it is prevented from writing to the registry because your user account permissions aren't set correctly then it will not save any changes to the workspace that you made.
Try to set up your workspace how you want and quit the program before you do anything else. Then it should be restored to that state whenever the program starts, even after a crash.
I hope you have reported your crashes to support.xara.com. If you we will try to fix them and make the program as stable as we can.
Phil
Hi Phil,Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilM
thanks for quick responding.
That what You are writing is corrctly the way I do. I made several times backups of the registry entry, but it doesn't work.
My crashes at xara.com I'd reported must fill now few cabinets.
It will be fine when Xara give a feedback what happens with all the crashreports I'd send in the last four years. My problems aren't solved until now.
Again thanks Phil for the try to help me.
Servus Ernie
I am creating a flyer for a journey. Thre are a few fotos and text. Nothing else, no effects or other things.
This happen after a hour and half and many pics I paste, but the last one did the error …
https://s27.postimg.org/8m3mtwc67/Screenshot_37.png
… and again I rebuild my settings for the workspace. I hate it. Pls fix this boring thing.
There is an other post where a member is the meaning XDP64 is not 64-bit. I think also that Xara don't run in native 64-bit. This will be the think why it crash with a few big fotos. If it's not 64-bit it can't handle more than 3 GB ram. My Workstation has 32 GB ram and I haven't any problems with other 64-bit aplications (Adobe, Corel, Serifs old Win-Stuff, Affinity, Inkscape, Artrage, SketchUp, Resolve etc., etc.). Maybe somebody from Xara can bring clarity to this.
Servus Ernie
Hi Ernie,
The program really is 64bit, I can assure you, but you may have encountered a bug that accidentally corrupts a memory address when it gets bigger than 32bit. I'm looking into it.
There's no reason that a serious error should cause the program to lose settings that it has previously written to the registry so that's a separate issue that may indicate a configuration problem on your computer.
Phil
Again thanks for reply.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilM
After all crashes I got and restart, XDP set the workspace to the default settings. Xara don't remember the settings in the NormalBar.reg. This behaviour I got on four workstations I chnaged in the last four years. It began on Windows Vista with XDP 7 end is still there on Windows 10 Pro with XDP 365. I don't think its a PC or OS problem because I got the same on an older laptop with XDP11 32-bit too.
I thought it's maybe an anti virus problem but without (I uninstalled them) it is the same scenario.
Hi Phil,Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilM
I understand that there's some interesting aspects in offering software exclusively running in a Browser.
Probably the most outstanding one is cross-platform availability. Suddenly it no more makes a difference
whether a user prefers win, mac or any flavour of Linux.
But there's outstanding disadvantages too and I can say that with testing experience in various fields of work, including
fullblown, very feature rich CAD applications, running in the cloud. What turns me off mostly is listed below.
Extremely poor support for custom keyboard shortcuts (> the ability to set own shortcuts is probably the main reason why
I use Designer and not one of your lesser packages). Further poor support for context sensitive RMB menus. One in my
experience mainly dependent on using visual elements to drive the app. Large mouse /pen movements and having visible
toolbars all over is nothing I'm interested in.
There's afaik still no support whatsoever for pressure sensitive input in any Browser.
Xara already today has only extremely basic support for pen based editing. By moving to the Browser you afaik would lose
this capability altogether.
Latency. One can have the most awesome Computer and Internet connection:
Editing online still doesn't feel remotely as snappy as dealing with Desktop applications.
Upload/download times. They again impact snappiness. There's good reasons why Adobe only calls things "Cloud" but
still delivers Desktop applications. 500mb Photoshop files open swiftly on my system – I sure would not want to wait – and
I don't want to cause totally needless internet traffic. All the unjustified traffic (also by Music and Film and other streaming
services impact nature a lot more than printing a few sheets of paper every day).
File handling. With Desktop applications, especially on Windows one has countless options available to organize, tag, group and
access files. While a few online software products support basic drag and drop actions one would be depending on more or less
on what the Browser supports.
Flexible Viewport handling, such as the capability to duplicate document views and being able to move these to another screen.
Xara in contrast to pretty much any 2D graphics app doesn't offer this powerful feature. You should really work on this –moving to
the Browser will not cure the problem. You might be able to completely clone document windows but having two wired Windows,
displaying the same document view but not the same arrangement of toolbars and pallets is nothing I have seen yet
(let alone being able to store this config across sessions).
Licensing. At least here in Europe we effectively own our software and can usually run the software for as long as we can provide
matching hardware. With Browser based apps the service may simply end for whatever reason and the user couldn't do anything about it.
Even if the software maker wanted to supply a perpetual option (say before going out of business) he probably could do so.
These are just a few of my concerns. Online apps just suck across the board, imo.
Phil
I think MIke and Hoja have said a lot of what I would say, I would simply add - if your given deadlines are hours away, not days or weeks or months, are you going to take the risk?
not me
Mike also made good points about the code - if you can somehow make the online program as good as the offline one in every respect, if not better, then I see it as a good thing - but I still could not take the risk for the work in question; another reason why I am moving away from xara, bit by bit.... because I do not want to rely on a program that is moving towards the cloud rather than recoding the existing app
Phil, re your open question in post #14
Apart from email I don't currently use any online apps at the moment so can't really comment on how that might work, but I can definitely say I would not like to rely solely on an online version. Where I live we have an unreliable internet service, despite being a superfast, fibre optic broadband enabled area. Also poor connection speeds and reliability are not just local to me here in the UK. What about users in other countries with even less developed networks?
As mentioned by somebody else, the best long term solution, I believe, even if it takes a few years, is to dismantle and separate everything, clear out the old junk and rewrite the bits you need to from the ground up incorporating and utilising the latest tools and modern techniques.
btw I wouldn't describe myself as particularly old-fashioned but probably more 'old school'. :)
I wouldn't use an online version.
I mainly work with Xara because of the productivity, speed, simplicity, cleverness and customization for creating vector graphics.
I have carefully weighted other options and it still wins on these fronts.
I would greatly appreciate some effort a redesign of the UI instead, to make scalable and adapt resolutions.
Cross platform would be very much appreciated.
Marc
I think that most people still prefer to use desktop applications for their creative suites. Seeing the Xara community's concern over a subscription based model, I think moving the application completely to the cloud would be a hard sell. I personally use cloud software for most of my daily work outside of actually designing - Google docs, gmail, trello, dropbox, slack, etc. If the issues of speed and connectivity can be overcome, then I would be happy to use a cloud version if it would provide additional functionality or features.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilM
I would not subscribe to a Cloud version. I am an insomniac, but I can get myself sleepy again by doing some work on the 'pooter. Where I live in Australia the internet connection often disappears in the wee small hours or when there's a heavy storm, so I'd be sitting here swearing at a Cloud-based Xara which is not calming at all. Our situation will probably be this way for years to come due to the ultra-lame hybrid fibre+copper system that our politicians have chosen to burden us with. So I'm only interested in software that resides on my hardware and which is not dependent on an internet connection. Another point to note is that our internet access is expensive and relatively slow (I can get 20Mbps down- and 4 Mbps up-load speeds if I'm lucky) and I don't need to have additional ongoing expense just to use something I've already paid for. The assumption by software developers that everyone has high speed up and down and a cheap 24/7 internet connection with unlimited data is seriously flawed.
For various reasons I would not like a cloud based system either.
Email is only internet software I use which can be problematic.
Then there is the issue of those using laptops away from any means of internet connection (even if only for a short time) but still want to use the software. What then?