Xara’s Extrude tool is good for making cut-out shapes and swooping text, but did you know you can also build complex, photorealistic shapes? Like a toy train, or the pages in the billboard above, and even a long lens for an SLR camera. Rik Datta takes you through the precise steps to build a marvelously intricate long camera lens this month, and the techniques you’ll learn can take you to even greater creative heights. Or at least 250mm f1.4.
September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
Remember about three years ago, and I did a video using Video Home Producer version negative 3 from Tiger Direct...and I showed that if you rotate an extruded circle in a particular way, a column shape in 3D is the result?
Rik Datta took this to a whole new level: this tutorial, complete with specific Infobar values set in nice tables (which took the Admin about three hours to cobble and I owe her dinner for that!), shows you how to design an absolutely stunning long lens for a dSLR or SLR camera, like so:
It's always exciting around here for a contributing member to break with the predictability in presentation with the videos I do, and the result of Rik's instructions will floor you.
This is all done using only extrusions.
Get into this one: it's great stuff!
My Best,
Gary
26 September 2014, 05:07 PM
wizard509
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
Great tutorial Rik. I can't wait to do it.
28 September 2014, 05:29 AM
csehz
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Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
Rik thanks for sharing and for the tutorial,
I went without the cheat sheet trying to reproduce the shapes by the steps, however found rather hard as sometimes did not press enter or the clipboard contained the last copied color so at the end came out slightly differently :)
Was being not sure during the process what is the direction of the lights visually, just for those who would like to reproduce it a good tip can be to know that selecting all the shapes and switching on the lights, with grabbing one light all of them together can be moved to produce consequent lighting
28 September 2014, 08:09 AM
Rik
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
That's a very good top, csehz.
I thought it was better to give all he figures for the angles and lighting. That way, you can produce the lens, with the correct lighting.
Then, you can experiment.
I like what you've done. :-bd
You've got two bright light sources.
Why not finish it off with the remaining parts of the lens?
29 September 2014, 06:17 PM
csehz
2 Attachment(s)
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
I know that lens is not for that target :D, but maybe let's extrude a monitor beside with browsing to the XaraXone page and..
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
That's a real cool idea, cshez.
I like it.
The lens parts on the right hand side are really shiny, but the ones on the left side are not.
Though you are the designer, I would have expected the materials to be similar, and therefore the reflections to be similar.
What would you say?!
30 September 2014, 12:40 PM
Gare
2 Attachment(s)
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
Apologies in advance, Rik, for butting into a question not directed at me: is it conceivable that a multi-element long lens would be made of different typesof plastic and metal...some shiny and some dull? I'm sure your point is well taken concerning consistency, though.
You're also presenting what we called in advertising a "beauty shot" of the lens, an idealized illustration that the real product will surely not look as good as, out of the box. Bear with me here: there are few things as visually boring as the front lens on a camera: it's just a convex piece of reflective glass because the back side is dark, therefore it becomes more mirrorlike than transparency.
A zillion years ago when I did print at an ad agency, the photographer I hired would do highly reflective materials inside a white tent and illuminate from the outside to preserve whits in silverware and other mirror-like finishes on products. Then we'd "paint" character and detail into the objects through the use of softboxes (A box with a light inside, with one side covered with heavily diffused material...casting no hard shadows). Finally, we'd hang black or colored strips of paper off camera for the object to pick up.
This is my attempt to add visual data to the lens glass, and the file is attached.
I now we turn you to your regularly-scheduled moderator and host...
My Best,
Gary
30 September 2014, 12:58 PM
csehz
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rik
Though you are the designer, I would have expected the materials to be similar, and therefore the reflections to be similar.
What would you say?!
Thanks for your opinions that it was a good idea, well with the reflections in two things I am surely weak, counting the shape of shadows and also the reflections :D Fortunately the lens was placed enough high to not deal with the shadows, however the monitor should have probably something :)
Relating the lens technically did in this case on the same way as previously mentioned so selecting all extrudes, switching on the lights and grabbing one light which directs also all the others. In my understanding the lights have different colors and that causes the slight differences.
30 September 2014, 01:53 PM
Gare
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
Csehz—
If you begin with unaltered light colours and several extrudes, the lights are all the default colors—which are an interesting choice but I always change them because blue and green don't suit the object I'm lighting 99% of the time! Also, if you make a light white, against a white background, the icon for the light on the page becomes invisible and going to Wireframe WILL NOT make it visible. You need to either put a piece of black to the back of the page, or choose the light from the Colour Editor and make it 30% black or something to restore the visibility of the light, pose it, and then change it back to white.
-g
30 September 2014, 03:44 PM
csehz
1 Attachment(s)
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
Thanks for the advices, anyway the extrude tool bevel types and possible 'materials' should fit also for other technical illustrations like tablets, monitors etc.
Recently I did a test shooting our tablet to see which perspective value would be 'real' in Extrude tool. I was surprised a bit that 64 or maybe even a little bit more would be needed for this angle (64 is the max)
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
See something else that happens? Reflections are not continuous when the camera is at an oblique angle. Many artists perfectly mirror an object within an reflective surface, however perspective is maintained in a reflection when the camera's position is directed the the front of the item being reflected.
Does this make any sense?
-g
30 September 2014, 07:38 PM
wizard509
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gare
See something else that happens? Reflections are not continuous when the camera is at an oblique angle. Many artists perfectly mirror an object within an reflective surface, however perspective is maintained in a reflection when the camera's position is directed the the front of the item being reflected.
Does this make any sense?
-g
I don't know. If an object is perfectly reflected why wouldn't the vanishing point also be reflected. Not that you would see it anyway, but, wouldn't the reflected object still reflect to the reflected vanishing point and not the original VP? You make a good point but still I wonder.
30 September 2014, 07:42 PM
Gare
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
In a few hours, Larry, I will post a video on YouTube and link it here, to show what photometrically happens when you angle stuff in a mirror and the camera is the artist, okay? Words are getting in the way here! :)
-g
30 September 2014, 07:46 PM
wizard509
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
OK Gare, I'll look for it, thanks.
30 September 2014, 09:43 PM
Gare
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
I needed to set it up just now and I'm rendering it. Should take two hours and then up to YouTube. I think you'll be surprised what you and an audience will see from different perspectives when a cylindrical object reflects into a mirror-like surface.
It surprised me!
-g
01 October 2014, 02:27 AM
wizard509
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
OK, will you post when it is ready?
02 October 2014, 11:04 PM
Gare
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
This is post 1 of two. This short video shows the reflection of a tube—like Rik's wonderful long lens—when views change in a mirror-like object.
The next video (probably tomorrow is quite different but shows reflections, too. What if you put an object directly on as mirror-like surface, such as a frozen mirror-like lake, and viewed it from a height of 5 or 6 feet? How do the reflections look? Hint: reflections of an object on a mirror are contiguous with perspective, they do not simply flip...the reflection continues to recede into the background.
Easier shown than said, though, stay tuned.
Larry, I hope this helps.
-Gary
04 October 2014, 12:56 PM
csehz
2 Attachment(s)
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
I have just watched the video now, it is really interesting experiment how a modeling program shows that.
Around a month ago had similiar idea in Xara but finally did not post in this format, wanted to place the extruded laptop in front of the mirror, then place a Xara screen inside on its screen, on which inside there is another and so on in the depth :)
But finally booked it as a not successful attempt and the 'project' stopped :D Did not like the table and neither was sure whether the mirror really works like that. Anyway 'Only Extrudes' everything in the file
05 October 2014, 02:33 PM
Gare
1 Attachment(s)
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
In real life, csehz, to accomplish what you want here, two things must take place:
1. The monitor must be perfectly, flatly alined with the lens of the computer, or eventually, the multiple reflections will gradually move out of frame.
2. There can be no atmosphere. Even the slightest amount of haze or particle contamination will dull the reflection, plus the glass or reflective surface itself will eventually run out of ambient light to illuminate the scene.
Go to a fun house mirror attraction sometime, and if it's well-kept and kids haven't smeared chocolate ice cream all over the Plexiglas, you'll notice that the brightness of your reflection diminishes.
So perhaps in your illustration, the reflections could get duller so by the fifth reflection, the image is totally dark.
I did this in Photoshop, but there's absolutely no reason not to do it in Xara, using masks.
-g
08 October 2014, 05:23 PM
Gare
1 Attachment(s)
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
I hope I can explain this visually here: post #2 shows how a long lens type object looks in a mirror when the viewer is not at the camera's angle, and the object does not rest upon the mirror plane.
You're going to get a very different effect if, for example, you want to draw a sailboat on a mirror-like lake and you, the camera and spectator, are at least 40 feet in the air looking at the sailboat and its reflection.
When you look at an object sitting on a mirror plane from a superior angle, there is continuity between the angle ob the object and its reflection. The reflection does not flip-flop, but instead become and extension of the original object ad in thew reflection, you can see part of the original object that are hidden when the ground plane is not reflective. Here's "Right" and "Wrong" for illustrating landscape reflections:
And here's a short video where the camera moves all over, and regardless of the camera's orientation, as long as an object is sitting on the plane, the perspective of the reflection is contiguous with the object, unlike the example
I hope this clarifies some of the sdtuff we've been doing on this thread!
My Best,
Gary
09 October 2014, 05:40 AM
csehz
1 Attachment(s)
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gare
When you look at an object sitting on a mirror plane from a superior angle, there is continuity between the angle ob the object and its reflection.
Gare these examples are amazing teaching ones, thanks very much. That is really interesting so trying to translate it to the created lens, what is the technique in Xara to have that continuity between the object and reflection? Because the lens is in slight perspective angle, until I am aware of the technique is to create a mirror, give it a linear transparency and do not really know further :D
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
This is where I'd take your experiment, csehz, and you might even discover you have a better way, or a better technique than I used in all of 5 minutes!
1. You're already at Step 1 in this illustration below. Thew angle of rotation on the two objects will cause a slight problem later, but I'll show you how to fix it. See, both sides, left and right, of the lens need to touch the reflection, or you run into a perspective error the way I'm going to do this.
2. select the reflection object, and then press Ctrl+Shift+C to make a bitmap copy, with alpha, click Create. Delete the source vector group of shapes, and then position the bitmap copy where the vector group was. With the Photo Enhance tool, go up to the Infobar and blur the hell out of the bitmap.
3. Create a trapezoid, which suggests this plane is viewed with a vanishing point. Put the bitmap blurred copy on top of the trapezoid. With the Transparency tool, drag straight down so the reflection is reduced at the farthest point light has to travel to display a reflection. Play with the linear transparency values up on the Infobar.
4. Finally, this is going to clip the blurry bitmap, so your solution at the very beginning is to clip the group of objects to a larger rectangle with no outline and no fill so there is some room for this distortion, and the edges og the distorted bitmap will not be clipped, truncated. First, take the original lens and rotate it so its long side is nearly parallel to the bottom of the page.
Select the blurry bitmap, and then click it to put it into skew/rotate mode, and then skew the right side up until it meets the right side of the original illustration Rik did. You might also want to skew the blurry copy from left to a little to the right.
I'm sorry, your time's up! :) Actually, my time is up :(. It might be better to use the freeform perspective Mould tool on the reflection to get it exactly as you want, but this is real close to a believable reflection on a surface.
No any innovation just I like if that trapezoid is also an extrude, because later with the lights feeling more convenient to set the final color of that 'scene'.
11 October 2014, 01:57 PM
Gare
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
@ scehz—
Holy ___ ! That is a piece worthy of your portfolio, with credits to Rik, for the design or the lens!
You're getting to the point where I will invite you to do a Guest Tutorial, man.
It's not so much that this is a BEAUTIFUL piece, but your approach and patience, your determination...all put together, make you a noteworthy artist!
Love it!
Gary
11 October 2014, 07:09 PM
Rik
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
Quote:
Originally Posted by csehz
Gare thanks for the tips, had a chance a bit to play so came out something
No any innovation just I like if that trapezoid is also an extrude, because later with the lights feeling more convenient to set the final color of that 'scene'.
That really is very good, csehz.
I mean, really good. =D>
11 October 2014, 08:07 PM
Gare
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
As a crowning touch, would anyone like to calculate or fake a correct lens reflection or highlight, just so the left of the magnificent object Rik demonstrated, has just a little more photorealistic detail?
I'm am floored (that means "delighted" in American) y the depth of this tutorial and how member reached out and took the time to both learn and prduce something!
I'm buying the next round.
Perrier, of course; this is a Family Site.
;)
Gary
11 October 2014, 09:58 PM
Rik
1 Attachment(s)
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
I'll have a go at that.
If I understood which part you meant?!
11 October 2014, 11:01 PM
Gare
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
Jeez, Rik, I love it. I would not have gone to such lengths to make such a complicated reflection, but then again, I'm not you!
Lucky you! :)
The thing really lives and breaths now!
-g
11 October 2014, 11:11 PM
Gare
1 Attachment(s)
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
This isn't any attempt to do "lifelike", but I was pleased to be able to illustrate 90% of this scene with only extrudes. The rest is either purely hand illustrated, or I used Expressions for the smoke.
No any innovation just I like if that trapezoid is also an extrude, because later with the lights feeling more convenient to set the final color of that 'scene'.
Hi csehz, that's a really a great piece of work. Just starting this tips & tricks but I've been following your progress with it and your to be commended for your perseverence and determination and great finish, of which I hope I can intergrate into my attempt. Learnt a lot from your progress and Gary's guidance. Well done mate =D>
Stygg
12 October 2014, 08:31 AM
Rik
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
Thanks for your comments, Gary.
You asked for a bit of realism, so as the image looks complete.
It took a short while (not too long), but I feel that it was worth the effort.
12 October 2014, 03:33 PM
csehz
2 Attachment(s)
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
Thanks for your very kind words,
seeing Gare's example associated that yes the extrude tool also should quite fit to fast illustrating of children games, as its 'material' is quite easily looks some like plastic
Stygg welcome for joining to the Tips & Tricks, I should also move a bit to the Photo Compositions 2 yet :D
12 October 2014, 06:10 PM
Gare
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
Quote:
Originally Posted by stygg2003
Learnt a lot from your progress and Gary's guidance. Well done mate =D>
Stygg
Oh, count me out on the compliments, stygg. I might make remarks about lighting and other photorealistic elements, but the lens tutorial was entirely Rik's offering for XaraXone. I'm still working on a Xara Academy logo! And Certificates of Excellence.
-g
(BTW, xaracademy and xaraacedmy.com belong to TheBoutons, but they are parked until we can get cracking on it some day).
12 October 2014, 06:12 PM
Gare
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
Quote:
Originally Posted by csehz
Thanks for your very kind words,
seeing Gare's example associated that yes the extrude tool also should quite fit to fast illustrating of children games, as its 'material' is quite easily looks some like plastic
Stygg welcome for joining to the Tips & Tricks, I should also move a bit to the Photo Compositions 2 yet :D
Can I put Mr. Lego guy on the flatbed of my train? :)
EXCELLENTLY DONE, Sir.
13 October 2014, 05:31 AM
csehz
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gare
Can I put Mr. Lego guy on the flatbed of my train? :)
Exactly had the same next thought that nice would be putting the figures to the train but did not have more time, maybe on Thursday can try something (or the Photo compositions 2, or to where Xara leads that never can be known :D)
13 October 2014, 05:46 AM
stygg2003
2 Attachment(s)
Re: September 2014 Guest Tute - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
Gary your post #36, I know it was Rik's tips & tricks and a great one too, I got my wording mixed up which is not un-usual now a days :) I've posted two images, one with reflection and the other with shadow. Hope I've done your t&t justice Rik :rolleyes:
Stygg
13 October 2014, 06:30 AM
stygg2003
1 Attachment(s)
Re: September 2014 Tips and Tricks - Creating illustrations With Only Extrudes
One more with colour change, I just had to try this and I liked it :)