-
Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
I need some help to create a seamless bitmap fill. I have no problem creating a repeatable tile in Xara Extreme Pro 5, but when I create a bitmap copy and use that as a fill I always end up with a very fine white line around two edges of my bitmap. I have my main rectangle shape line thickness set at NONE, so I don't really understand why this is happening. I have my colour depth set to TRUE, and have tried various DPI settings from 96 to 300, and tried both anti-aliasing settings, but always end up with a similar result.
Any assistance greatly appreciated
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
some suggestions:
make sure your bitmap size is in whole [even number] pixels
make sure your bitmap tiles are positioned so the xy coordinates on the page are in whole pixels
change your view setting to 'full colour' - in high/very_high quality settings xara will screen anti-alias, which is probably what you are seeing
if you still get a white line try zooming in and out - if at some zooms the line disappears, it may be your monitor anti-aliasing that is causing it to show [ie it may not actually be there when you print, or on another screen]
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
Welcome to TalkGraphics bluesplayer43
When working on website graphics, in Page Options set your Units to Pixels, (I also set my Color Units to RGB), and set your Grid and Ruler settings to Major Spacing = 100pix and Number of Sub Divisions to 10.
To display screen rulers (if they are not already displayed) press Ctrl L.
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
Actually, I've encountered this problem myself, now and again - as I often need to create seamless textures. When it happens. I crop the image slightly. The white space is some actual remaining space in the artwork, that seemed seamless to you in creation, but is still there. Crop it, that usually fixes the problem.
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
If you crop it, make sure the cropping square/rectangle is in whole pixels.
Personally, I use the Photo type of document for tiles. I may well do the art on a regular page, but even if I do I copy the elements into a photo document and do the final sizing there.
Gary's seamless pattern tut:
http://www.xaraxone.com/tutorials/cr...rns-with-xara/
The discussion thread:
http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthre...Designer-Pro-X
Mike
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
The dimensions of the tile image have to be even # in size I believe.
Jim
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
Right, Scotty.
1.) You can't have a seamless tile that is a fractional amount: 512.2 pixels by 512 pixels for example, because what Xara does when it makes a bitmap copy is it anti-aliased the edge of the fractional dimension with the background to quantize, to achieve a non-floating point value that can be saved to file.
Try this: once you have your design, copy it and then choose New>Blank Photo, drop it into this void of a space, and then export it. for some reason, this preset type rounds off fractional amounts and the result I bewlieve, will not have that nasty anti-aliased line in it.
Anti-aliasing in Xara is terrific 90% of the time, but it can be a deal-breaker when you want to export a seamless tile.
-g
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bluesplayer43
I need some help to create a seamless bitmap fill. I have no problem creating a repeatable tile in Xara Extreme Pro 5, but when I create a bitmap copy and use that as a fill I always end up with a very fine white line around two edges of my bitmap. I have my main rectangle shape line thickness set at NONE, so I don't really understand why this is happening. I have my colour depth set to TRUE, and have tried various DPI settings from 96 to 300, and tried both anti-aliasing settings, but always end up with a similar result.
Any assistance greatly appreciated
Guys,
Thanks for the fast responses and assistance. I spent a while yesterday playing around with the suggestions and various settings and seem to have found a work-around.
I had been working within an ordinary A4-sized document, so switched to a 640 pix webpage. The trick is to use just the 96-dpi setting, all others produce too much noticeable anti-aliasing which seems to be the culprit for the borders on two sides.
Your pattern doesn't have to be square, ion fact the pattern I was creating a rectangle was more suitable anyway. I started with 60 x 40 pix dimensions and that worked fine. My pattern contains lines (I'm creating lithology pattern fills for a technical document), which I found don't produce well if a smaller rectangle is used. Half this size 30 x 20 pix worked OK too, but a 15 x 10 grid the antialiasing started giving noticeable borders again.
Perhaps another option of "No Antialiasing" is needed in Xara.
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
Quote:
Perhaps another option of "No Antialiasing" is needed in Xara.
that is what switching to 'full colour' setting does ;)
-
1 Attachment(s)
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
I always have minimise anti-aliasing selected when creating bitmaps.
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
as i read the first post, both those options were tried... but what does that option do Egg? presumably it applies locally just to those bitmaps so created, is that right?
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
Hi Handrawn,
The help file explains it thus:
Anti-aliasing
Anti-aliasing improves the appearance of graphics by smoothing jagged edges:
- Maintain Screen Anti-aliasing: The exported bitmap uses the exact same positioning as shown on screen, and so has identical anti-aliasing. This can result in the edges of objects being slightly blurred because they do not fall exactly on pixel boundaries.
- Minimize Visible Anti-aliasing: This will slightly reposition the objects by fractions of a pixel to minimize the anti-aliasing around the edge of the exported bitmap. If in doubt which option to use, select this.
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
... that implies that the setting only takes effect when exporting a bitmap [what I would have expected] - so what happens if you then reimport it?.... hummm.... :)
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
Don't understand your question Handrawn.
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Egg from help
the exported bitmap
exported from where.. from the xara program presumbly - if you were to make a bitmap copy within xara would that bitmap copy have minimised anti-aliasing whilst it remained in xara, or only once it had been exported?
if you were to export a bitmap with the minimised anti aliasing and you reimported it would the global settings of the xara UI over-ride ?
in other words - how helpful is this when working within xara?
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
Generally when I am creating seamless textures, the intent is that I export the file, then import right back as I'd be using the seamless texture in Xara itself. I only ever use image editors to tweak colors, brightness, contrast, etc. I generally don't use image editors to do actual work, only for tweaking existing work. Even with those seamless textures I create in Xara and sometimes needing to crop the image to get rid of the anti-aliased straight edge, I'm not intending to use the seamless texture anywhere other than in Xara.
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
why export it and then reimport it? - does this give an advantage over making an internal bitmap copy?
what do you use to crop to get rid of the anti-aliased edge? - can you do that in xara?
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
The reduce anti-aliasing works on both "export" (jpg, gif etc), to create a external copy & "create bitmap copy" for an internal copy. I very rarely have issues with edges. If I do one thing I tendto do is create a clone of the original shapes you want to export, put to back and give it a single 0.5pix external contour. Then export the original shapes, not the contoured version behind. This just ensures the export has a similar background. However this should never really be necessary.
Perhaps Blues player could post his xar file that's displaying this problem?
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
yes good idea - that's a variant on what we used to [still have to] do with gif's when exporting because of the limited colour palette
I don't make seamless tiles, I never have any issues with anti-aliasing 24/32 bit colour depth images normally, just trying to get a handle on it in context - thanks
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
handrawn
why export it and then reimport it? - does this give an advantage over making an internal bitmap copy?
what do you use to crop to get rid of the anti-aliased edge? - can you do that in xara?
Because some of my maps are intended for print at 24" x 36" at 300 ppi, I require 300 ppi seamless textures, not 96 ppi. There probably is no advantage, rather its just how I do it. Of course, I may also want to use the seamless texture at some future date, so I want to save it to my textures directory for that purpose.
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
you can make a bitmap copy at 300dpi - you can set the internal bitmap copy dpi to 300 dpi permanently [not just session as with export] but you need to change registry key to do it
save the texture out, yes of course...
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
Is there any time anybody would want a white pixel added to the edge of an exported image.
Why would Xara not simply round down to the closest number of full pixels when exporting?
Would be a good fix as fractional pixels happen all the time when working in other units and as a user I don't want to have to think on this, I just what nice clean exported images
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
if you round down to the nearest pixel, what happens if your pixels are oblong rectangles or dots [usually the case] - you get gaps - even square pixels will cause gaps on a curve - those gaps are usually filled with part transparent pixels to avoid a stepped/jagged edge [a process known as anti-aliasing]
just so happens that in this case it is causing an unwanted clash and become visible - no system covers every eventuality
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
As long as those gaps aren't on the edges it might not be a problem. I often create seamless textures that are also partly transparent saved as a PNG file with Alpha channel.
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
could be
as anyone who has had to contend with moiré patterns or who has seen how a colour can appear to change simply by being placed next to a different colour will know, what we see is often rather subjective
in this instance I think it is the overlapping of the fading out of the transparent pixels that is causing the problem because they are both exactly the same tile, so rather like moiré in a way - but I could of course be completely wrong... :D
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peteroz1
Is there any time anybody would want a white pixel added to the edge of an exported image.
Why would Xara not simply round down to the closest number of full pixels when exporting?
Would be a good fix as fractional pixels happen all the time when working in other units and as a user I don't want to have to think on this, I just what nice clean exported images
As has been said in this thread and before, copy your art to a new Photo document (File, New, Photo document) and export from there. The application will make slight adjustment and round partial pixels to a whole number.
When I need to hit a target explicitly and rounding up/down would interfere with that, it is easy in the photo document to make that sizing.
Please note that making a bitmap copy in at least XDP, even though the dialog box shows whole pixels (i.e. rounding) the bitmap copy is still fractions of a pixel off.
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
that applies to the export too ... ?
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
handrawn...no, exporting out rounds the pixels. I was referring to making a bitmap copy.
BTW, in the Blank Photo document, resizing by the center handles (width, height) will always result in even pixels.
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
even if you make the bitmap copy in a blank photo document...?
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
handrawn
even if you make the bitmap copy in a blank photo document...?
I dunno. Why don't you simply do it and tell us?
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
in photo document the anti-aliasing is turned off - you can see that if you insert the default bitmap and zoom in - in a photo document you can see the steps in the stripes in very high quality and high quality as well as full colour views
in other words the vhq/hq is over-ridden in photo document and it is the equivalent of full colour in an ordinary document
I am not convinced there is any difference between photo document and an ordinary document in full colour view, including bitmap copies - I don't see any when I try this
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
handrawn
in photo document the anti-aliasing is turned off - you can see that if you insert the default bitmap and zoom in - in a photo document you can see the steps in the stripes in very high quality and high quality as well as full colour views
in other words the vhq/hq is over-ridden in photo document and it is the equivalent of full colour in an ordinary document
I am not convinced there is any difference between photo document and an ordinary document in full colour view, including bitmap copies - I don't see any when I try this
Not understanding what you are saying.
There is a difference between the document types as regards the exporting behavior. In a photo document, making a bitmap copy does not round off the pixels.
Viewing inside a photo document is no different here than a print page.
-
1 Attachment(s)
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
[2500% zoom]
Attachment 102189
the point is - the photo document exports in whole pixels because the anti-aliasing is off - doesn't the print document do the same thing in full colour view mode?
ditto bitnmap copy?
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
Still no idea what the point is...sorry for being thick.
Only relevance as regards a bitmap is at 100% of size. And not what it looks like with screen anti-aliasing. Export two bitmap copy versions of the same item, one from a photo document, one from a print document. Now view them in a browser side-by-side at 100%. Or reimport them into either a print or photo document. Zoom in all you want, they are identical.
Mike
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
I have used the approach Egg refers to with consistent success. For whatever reason, the image tends to pick up a bit of the background on the edge upon export.
So I create a clone of the image, enlarge it a bit, put in back of the tile I want to export, re-select the forward-most tile and export it.
Any of the errant edge color will now match the tile perfectly and the image will tile seamlessly.
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
the sshot is to emphasize the difference - this whole thread is about a visual difference caused by screen anti-aliasing - as I said at post #2 line 4 it would be best to turn it off [in what ever way suits you best]
and if you do that it will export in whole pixels as I understand it from print document as well photo document
when you come to view it, what you see will depend on the anti-alias settings of the browser and the background... so you may not see any difference...
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
@Andy - yes it's a good method :)
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
handrawn
the sshot is to emphasize the difference - this whole thread is about a visual difference caused by screen anti-aliasing - as I said at post #2 line 4 it would be best to turn it off [in what ever way suits you best]
and if you do that it will export in whole pixels as I understand it from print document as well photo document
when you come to view it, what you see will depend on the anti-alias settings of the browser and the background... so you may not see any difference...
There's been a lot of advice in this thread of creating seamless tiles that actually abut without artifacts. What I was responding to was the advice of making bitmap copies and using them. Which does not work if the object(s) are in fractional pixels. The bitmap copy will also have fractional pixels regardless of the anti-aliasing setting, regardless of the color setting (which will introduce artifacts anyway).
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
creating seamless tiles is the context of the discussion yes
it is not a colour setting, it is a view setting - the slider on the top bar, or in the window menu under view quality, just so happens to be called full colour but it does not change the colour depth
PS - it is what we used to use before there was such a thing as a 'photo document', and i still do...
-
Re: Problem Creating Seamless Fills - help needed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
handrawn
creating seamless tiles is the context of the discussion yes
it is not a colour setting, it is a view setting - the slider on the top bar, or in the window menu under view quality, just so happens to be called full colour but it does not change the colour depth
PS - it is what we used to use before there was such a thing as a 'photo document', and i still do...
I know which slider and or button to use.
At this point, all I can say is I am happy this process you outline works for you. It doesn't for me.