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Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
Do you agree with Athman on this?
-"For Xara to have a chance they would have to reinvent the software from the ground up which would mean a larger dev team and a much MUCH bigger development budget, not a chance."
-"Xara doesn't even have proper CYMK support or any greyscale capability."
SEE:
http://xara-users.info/board/viewtop...=4&t=5305&sd=d
Any professionals using Xara Designer Pro for Pro work? Can you share your experiences?
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
If you're going to quote across sites you should take care to keep context by linking to the point in the conversation which led to the comments you have cherry picked..
► http://board.xara-users.info/viewtop...tart=10#p38063
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sledger
I did not mean to cherry pick intensionally. If I offended you in any way, I apologize. That was not my intention.
The reason I pulled particular portions out is because these are the ones I am interested in. I want to see where other sara users stand on these issues. If I am going to make a switch to xara designer pro, I want to make sure that I am headed in the right direction. Its a big decision.
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cgntoonartist
Any professionals using Xara Designer Pro for Pro work? Can you share your experiences?
ive been using xara for pro web work for 14 years, during that time i've completely weaned myself off all adobe products
web design, gui design, template design, not web development, thats another thing entirely
i have used it for some pro print work which isnt my main revenue stream but anybody can see that it has severe limitations
having said that not had too many fussy printers and have sent rgb proofs that have printed out as required by the customer
suppose it all depends on the definition of pro
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
@Steve--I was smart enough to read the context. I think everyone is that even would care to read the linked post.
I think Steve is mainly right in his arguments. While there are creative individuals on the hunt for other products, the big kicker is going to be what governments and, more importantly, teaching institutions do at this point. I did read an article where due to Adobe not thinking this through well (priced smaller design schools out of the equation) enough have alienated a few design schools who are looking elsewhere. But I think in the end, they will pony up unless they all look elsewhere. Even if the teaching institutions change, it then takes design/ad agencies and the general buying public to change their perception of non-Adobe software.
Could it happen over time? Sure. No company is "too big to fail."
The main issue in the arguments I don't buy is the cost. I only use two Adobe applications, ID and AI. The CC cost me far more and leaves me with nothing to open work past 17 June unless I either continue the subscription, or sign back up when I have to. Those two applications as perpetual licenses have cost me about $300 every 18 to 20 months (and I still can load them at no further cost)--and it even cost me less before the recent change in having to upgrade to every major number release. The pricing of CC cannot touch that.
Adobe is already beginning to back-pedal under some of the arguments people have put forth. Further evidence of Adobe not really thinking this through. Adobe may well provide a means of converting one or more CC applications to perpetual licenses after X amount of payments so people would be able to open their files at some point in the future. How they choose to handle this situation is still not clear (nor been made public). The CC was ill thought out and poorly implemented. And there maybe legal ramifications, at least in the EU and UK. The case is being made that people who purchased a perpetual license to CS6 versus signing up to the Cloud were told by Adobe that they would only obtain the features released to Cloud subscribers during the past when CS7 was released. Which isn't going to happen at this point. How this plays out is a great who knows.
Take care, Mike
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
I'm with Frank on this. I have used Xara for at least 15 years for all kinds of professional projects. And no one has ever asked me what product(s) I used.
But is there a lot of room for improvement as sledger points out? Absolutely. But as Donald Rumsfeld so aptly put it, You go to war with the Army you have. And while I don't think think former secretary of defense was referring to Xara (spelled with X), the metaphor still is valid. Xara does about 90-95% of what I need it to do, and the other 10-5% I tap dance. Or I bring in the mercenaries. :)
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
cgntoonartist, if you're going to ask if Xara software is suitable for "Pro" work, you'd better decide what a "Pro" actually is, and that's no easy task.
There community of Xara users is wide - even amongst professional users. Many people on TG and elsewhere are using Xara products for making money professionally. I suspect the person making the most of Xara software in a professional manner is sketch, who is managing to produce websites and supporting graphics galore for his paying customers. Others here are using Xara for things such as Vehicle wraps and signage, illustration, even books and all kinds of bespoke graphics and imagery.
You name it and Xara has been used for it, servicing paying customers with quality artwork, so it is indeed a professional product.
When you compare Xara to the Adobe CC suite (a totally unfair comparison), it's a poor cousin. The Adobe toybox is stuffed with programs and features.
If you work professionally and Xara software fulfills your requirements, then it's perfect.
If you work collaboratively with others who may be working with Adobe products it can be a problem.
Xara software is no substitute for the Adobe CC suite, but that may not matter.
Think of it like this. If I run a delivery business, I can perhaps get by with a van or small truck for the goods that I deliver. It's only if someone wants me to move shipping containers or outsize loads that I run into trouble. I can operate my delivery business with small trucks, professionally.
Xara is my small truck and it does what's needed. The Adobe suite has all manner of haulage gear, but if I'm not shipping wide loads, it's overkill.
So, is Xara professional software? It is, but it's not the ultimate solution that Adobe is providing.
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pauland
Think of it like this. If I run a delivery business, I can perhaps get by with a van or small truck for the goods that I deliver. It's only if someone wants me to move shipping containers or outsize loads that I run into trouble. I can operate my delivery business with small trucks, professionally.
I find that a pretty good comparison and it helps to place the 'Xara vs. Adobe' discussion in a clearer context.
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
If you were going to commit to just one piece of software that is a big step step and one that I would not make as I use a variety of vector tools. As I started doing print artwork for national school examination papers in the mid 90's using Art Works on Acorn's, I then moved to Xara X using PC's, then into a local print shop all just using various versions of Xara without too much problems. I think like a few others here I can make some comments on the pro and cons of using our software.
Pro's
Easy to learn
In most cases fast
Has good universal tools for both web and print
It now has a good text engine
Good colour engine for RGB & HSV
Cons
Being left behind in strokes/brushes development
No CMYK artboard
Too many RGB effect tools for print purposes
I think Xara has helped me get jobs and promotion so long as I remembered its limitations for print but used its strengths for the web work that I have done. It was an excellent teaching tool for pupils learning graphics & illustrations and gained them higher marks because they used this software. It is very affordable for any teaching establishments even at higher levels but it is not accepted because "it's not up to industries standard" which is bull. I have had to learn Illy after I retired from teaching and found the learning curve steeper than that of Xara although it is a now a very fast and competent piece of software with too many tools and actions for this persons skills to take full advantage of. As I stated at the beginning I still use 3 vector drawing programmes in which I feel comfortable using each have their strengths and it would be a pity to uninstall any one of them just to go with one. At the moment, I think its obvious enough to see, that Xara has looked at the market trends to see where they fitted in and chosen the web development to concentrate on and have taken a good slice of the market. I don't think that this market will last as long as the drawing aspect of this programme has but only time will tell.
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Big Frank
ive been using xara for pro web work for 14 years, during that time i've completely weaned myself off all adobe products
web design, gui design, template design, not web development, thats another thing entirely
i have used it for some pro print work which isnt my main revenue stream but anybody can see that it has severe limitations
having said that not had too many fussy printers and have sent rgb proofs that have printed out as required by the customer
suppose it all depends on the definition of pro
You are correct, we need to define what PRO means. Thanks for pointing this out.
To me Professional (PRO) work is being able to supply corporate clients with the final files needed to give to their print shops for production with the proper file format, color configuration (Grayscale, RGB, CMYK, etc), and resolution. The software we use to produce the work, should provide us with all the tools necessary to get the job done and allow us to give customers what they need so that the print work comes out correctly and looks good.
Also, a designer or artist, should not have any doubts about the files produced by the software. We should feel confident that when we give the customer a file, is going turn out good and meet their needs.
For instance, we shouldn't have to open a file that came from Xara Studio Pro, in Adobe Illustration to double check it for errors or to fix it, or resave it in a better format. This may not be the best example of this, but you should get the idea.
A PRO app should stand on its own and the files it produces should be top notch.
This brings us back to the question:
Does Xara Designer Pro meet the PRO work standards?
What are your thoughts on this?
Cheers!
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pauland
cgntoonartist, if you're going to ask if Xara software is suitable for "Pro" work, you'd better decide what a "Pro" actually is, and that's no easy task.
There community of Xara users is wide - even amongst professional users. Many people on TG and elsewhere are using Xara products for making money professionally. I suspect the person making the most of Xara software in a professional manner is sketch, who is managing to produce websites and supporting graphics galore for his paying customers. Others here are using Xara for things such as Vehicle wraps and signage, illustration, even books and all kinds of bespoke graphics and imagery.
You name it and Xara has been used for it, servicing paying customers with quality artwork, so it is indeed a professional product.
When you compare Xara to the Adobe CC suite (a totally unfair comparison), it's a poor cousin. The Adobe toybox is stuffed with programs and features.
If you work professionally and Xara software fulfills your requirements, then it's perfect.
If you work collaboratively with others who may be working with Adobe products it can be a problem.
Xara software is no substitute for the Adobe CC suite, but that may not matter.
Think of it like this. If I run a delivery business, I can perhaps get by with a van or small truck for the goods that I deliver. It's only if someone wants me to move shipping containers or outsize loads that I run into trouble. I can operate my delivery business with small trucks, professionally.
Xara is my small truck and it does what's needed. The Adobe suite has all manner of haulage gear, but if I'm not shipping wide loads, it's overkill.
So, is Xara professional software? It is, but it's not the ultimate solution that Adobe is providing.
Well said Paul. Thanks for the comments.
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boy
I find that a pretty good comparison and it helps to place the 'Xara vs. Adobe' discussion in a clearer context.
I agree.
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Albacore
Cons
Being left behind in strokes/brushes development
No CMYK artboard
Too many RGB effect tools for print purposes
This worries me.
Would most people here agree that Xara Designer Pro is more fitted for Web work?
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
You can't have absolutes here. Plenty of people are using Xara professionally for illustration.
Plenty of people are using it for web design.
If you use it for illustration, you're hardly going to say it's better suited for web work.
Quite honestly, if it does the job you require of it and you like working with it, it's perfect.
It all depends on what job you need to be done.
If you want the most versatility go with Adobe.
The bottom line is that Xara software is versatile and at a comparatively cheap price point. You can use it professionally for a lot of things, but the more particular and demanding you get, then you'll find features missing that exist in it's larger, more expensive, competitor.
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
@William, I think Xara is trying to accomodate both web and print, with the emphasis tilted towards the web. I think that for XDP, it should be the other way around. I also think instead of actual web-work, they should be building in fixed-layout ePub into XDP.
In general to the question...
I think Xara should remain a mix bag of color space. At least if I am understanding Albacore's point about a "CMYK artboard." This makes it more like ID than AI in that ID doesn't have a document color space like AI or PS. It should have a working color space, though. Ability to be color managed by the working space profile.
However, as with some here, I begain working in print design using amber monitors and later paper white monitors. There was no ability to see color in a design. One had to know, and trust, that the color would be correct. In that sense, I know the color values of what I am using and know they will translate to PDFX-1a as designed. And for the most part, I have had zero surprises when checking in Acrobat. That doesn't mean the print side of Xara doesn't need work, it does, aside from print-centric additions.
Mike
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pauland
You can't have absolutes here. Plenty of people are using Xara professionally for illustration.
Plenty of people are using it for web design.
If you use it for illustration, you're hardly going to say it's better suited for web work.
Quite honestly, if it does the job you require of it and you like working with it, it's perfect.
It all depends on what job you need to be done.
If you want the most versatility go with Adobe.
The bottom line is that Xara software is versatile and at a comparatively cheap price point. You can use it professionally for a lot of things, but the more particular and demanding you get, then you'll find features missing that exist in it's larger, more expensive, competitor.
Most of the work I do involve illustration and photo manipulation. I do like the Xara Designer Pro vector tools much better than Adobe illustrator. I also do some web work. I do happen to like Xara Designer Pro a lot. I think it's faster and more intuitive than Adobe products. It just makes sense to me.
I don't see the Adobe versatility as a major problem. My main concern has to do more with the type and quality of files exported from the Xara software when it comes to grayscale and CMYK work for print jobs, like some people have pointed out, and the RGB effect tools for print purposes.
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mwenz
@William, I think Xara is trying to accomodate both web and print, with the emphasis tilted towards the web. I think that for XDP, it should be the other way around. I also think instead of actual web-work, they should be building in fixed-layout ePub into XDP.
In general to the question...
I think Xara should remain a mix bag of color space. At least if I am understanding Albacore's point about a "CMYK artboard." This makes it more like ID than AI in that ID doesn't have a document color space like AI or PS. It should have a working color space, though. Ability to be color managed by the working space profile.
However, as with some here, I begain working in print design using amber monitors and later paper white monitors. There was no ability to see color in a design. One had to know, and trust, that the color would be correct. In that sense, I know the color values of what I am using and know they will translate to PDFX-1a as designed. And for the most part, I have had zero surprises when checking in Acrobat. That doesn't mean the print side of Xara doesn't need work, it does, aside from print-centric additions.
Mike
Thanks for the input Mike. Your comments do help.
When chatting with Zeb from Zebtoonz, he told me that he does all of his illustrations in XDP, but still has to open the files in Adobe illustrator to make sure they are correct when a client or a printshop need an AI file for their use. It would be nice we we did not have to worry about things like that, and have confidence that the exported file from Xara is good to go.
I am sure the folks at Xara will keep making improvements in the future to handle these concerns. I am crossing my fingers. I do like the software better than Adobe.
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
Certain effects Zeb uses do need taken into an the way they are made. I have had no need to take stuff into air with two exceptions. 1 is when a client expects an air file in return or 2 when there are air specific functions/effects I desire to use an for.
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
I've been using Xara software for around 15 years and I use it for just about every piece of design work that I do. Including web design too, where I used to write the HTML raw previously, I have found that in most instances the web additions allow me more freedom and get me to the finished product faster than I was previously able to do.
I don't really do illustration and I've never used illustrator so I can't comment about that.
Where Xara is lacking is in print preparation. It doesn't do CMYK terribly well, and though I am able to get most stuff ready for a printshop it usually involves exporting a 300dpi bitmap of the finished artwork then opening it in Photoshop (CS2) and converting it to CMYK then saving as a PDF. It's a small workaround for me and the results are fine but I know that most agencies want the bare bones and that can't happen.
On the other hand there are things that I do in Xara that I wouldn't have the first idea of how to achieve in Photoshop/CS/CC.
I also have a friend who's a big Adobe user. He wouldn't switch (he's Mac anyway). He thought the Designer feathering ability was pretty amazing though.
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
@Jimi King
Thanks for the post Jimi.
Yes, exporting a 300dpi bitmap of the artwork, opening it in Photoshop, and then converting it to CMYK to save as a PDF, is a good workaround for bitmap work. Unfortunately, when an agency or printer ask for a vector .ai or .eps file, that's when things get challenging if the vector file from XDP is not good.
I did some testing today and exported some vector art from XDP as a .AI file, but when I opened it in Adobe Illustrator CS6, there were some problems with the gradients. They were not smooth the way they were in XSP. There must be a workaround for this.
Can anyone tell me what is the best way to prepare vector artwork in XSP so that when it gets exported as a .AI file, all the gradients look good in Adobe Illustrator?
Cheers!
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
Xara has been my tool of choice for all my illustration work within a large corporation for the last 5 years. But I bring things into Adobe CS programs all the time: it's basically a requirement in certain situations and for sharing work. So if you're asking if you could survive with just Xara to replace Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign in most professional environments with multiple designers, then no. Most of us are still slaves to the machine. ;)
But Xara is hands down the most productive vector program I've ever used, and it's raster tools have improved to the point that I find I'm using Photoshop less and less for quick fixes. If you're doing contract work, and are just delivering end product, then Xara is a fantastic all-in-one tool for a great price. (Though as others have stated, certain cmyk print situations can get tricky. Don't have much experience there myself: all my print stuff eventually ends up in InDesign or the like.)
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
I think biggest problem is that almost all basic tools that we have never been improved.
Just because of this we have fast, easy to use but useless bitmap tracer.
We have mould tool that cannot mould photos.
We have calligraphic tool without presets and stabilization.
Anyone can continue this list.
Still i have faith in Xara, after 5 years of whining we have band new alignment buttons.
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
huorn
I think biggest problem is that almost all basic tools that we have never been improved.
Just because of this we have fast, easy to use but useless bitmap tracer.
We have mould tool that cannot mould photos.
We have calligraphic tool without presets and stabilization.
Anyone can continue this list.
Still i have faith in Xara, after 5 years of whining we have band new alignment buttons.
Wow, it sounds like its time for a major upgrade.
How often does the software get updated or upgraded? Yearly?
Do the people at Xara ever go on this forum to talk about future improvements to the software?
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tovokas
Xara has been my tool of choice for all my illustration work within a large corporation for the last 5 years. But I bring things into Adobe CS programs all the time: it's basically a requirement in certain situations and for sharing work. So if you're asking if you could survive with just Xara to replace Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign in most professional environments with multiple designers, then no. Most of us are still slaves to the machine. ;)
But Xara is hands down the most productive vector program I've ever used, and it's raster tools have improved to the point that I find I'm using Photoshop less and less for quick fixes. If you're doing contract work, and are just delivering end product, then Xara is a fantastic all-in-one tool for a great price. (Though as others have stated, certain cmyk print situations can get tricky. Don't have much experience there myself: all my print stuff eventually ends up in InDesign or the like.)
Hi tovokas, thanks for the notes.
I am surprise on how many people so far don't work with CMYK jobs.
I did some testing yesterday and exported some vector art from XDP as a .AI file, but when I opened it in Adobe Illustrator CS6, there were some problems with the gradients. They were not smooth the way they were in XDP. There must be a workaround for this. Have you had this problem?
Can you or anyone here tell me what is the best way to prepare vector artwork in XDP so that when it gets exported as a .AI file, all the gradients look good in Adobe Illustrator?
Thanks.
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2 Attachment(s)
Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WilliamHere
when I opened it in Adobe Illustrator CS6, there were some problems with the gradients. They were not smooth the way they were in XDP. There must be a workaround for this.
Try exporting from DPX as PDF.
See attached (a PDF/x-1a)
Attachment 96530
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sledger
Thanks sledged, I will try this.
Cheers!
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
I've been using XDP for many years (ever since back when it was called Xara X), and like most here, it does about 90%+ of what I need. For most bitmap graphic work, I use Paint Shop Pro (since about v5), because I hate Photoshop with a passion. My only major complaint with XDP is that once you get past a certain page count, it slows to a crawl. When putting Spookybeans together for print, I had to split the book up across about 7 files, no more than 15-20 pages each, export each one as PDF, and combine them into one PDF using Acrobat Pro (granted, Spookybeans was extremely vector art heavy. I don't anticipate these kind of problems with the next project). But as far as the export itself, it always did fine, the PDF/X-3 files passed Acrobat Pro's preflight checks with no problems.
-- Ben
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
The discussion about what is missing from Xara in the professional arena seems to have a common theme of CMYK support, amongst the other topics.
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pauland
The discussion about what is missing from Xara in the professional arena seems to have a common theme of CMYK support, amongst the other topics.
Hi Paul,
Welcome to the XDP conversation!
Do you have any experiences with XDP and CMYK jobs? What can you share with us?
What do you use XDP for?
Cheers!
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ad1066
I've been using XDP for many years (ever since back when it was called Xara X), and like most here, it does about 90%+ of what I need. For most bitmap graphic work, I use Paint Shop Pro (since about v5), because I hate Photoshop with a passion. My only major complaint with XDP is that once you get past a certain page count, it slows to a crawl. When putting Spookybeans together for print, I had to split the book up across about 7 files, no more than 15-20 pages each, export each one as PDF, and combine them into one PDF using Acrobat Pro (granted, Spookybeans was extremely vector art heavy. I don't anticipate these kind of problems with the next project). But as far as the export itself, it always did fine, the PDF/X-3 files passed Acrobat Pro's preflight checks with no problems.
-- Ben
Hi Ben, thanks for the info! It looks like the AI/EPS export from XDP is not too good and PDF export is the way to go. I will be trying this later today.
I have heard a lot of good things about Paint Shop Pro.
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
I am just an onlooker on this subject. I'm no print specialist and because all my work involves collaboration with third parties that inevitably use Adobe software and expect me to do the same, I no longer use Xara as I used to.
CMYK support seems to be THE consensual issue amongst Pro users. Print seems to be the thing for many professionals.
I would guess that second to that and across the Xara community would be better support for mobile/responsive websites.
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
Personally I would like to see some design stuff that (A) was designed as a CMYK document that (B) didn't output correctly as checked in Acrobat.
I made (or, rather, am still working on) an XDP document that has CMYK color swatches in 10% increments that is dead accurate in the PDFX-1a output. The intent of the document is with the advent of POD and the use of Xerox Docucenter printers available at many/most quick print shops, is one can have the PDF printed in order to see where *their* color shifts occur.
It isn't that CMYK support cannot be updated/improved, it can. I iterated how earlier in this thread. Add to that support for PDFX-4, which simply resolves many issues of mixed RGB/CMYK and transparency issues.
Take care, Mike
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
I agree with you Mike here there has been a load of silliness being spouted in this thread:
1. I cant remember who stated the fact about the lack of grayscale which is true but how many here have used Illy to prepare for a newspaper print:- you have to jump through hoops there as well!
2. You would never use Illy to check files for print that is the job of Acro Pro:- What do you do before sending a job for print in Illy? You rasterize areas of your drawing and that is what the Export filter does in Xara automatically so areas of your file produced in Xara are rendered as a bitmap. So there are no real value in taking it into Illy far far better to check the file in Acro Pro where you will see the problems. Acro is a big tool and is a must for any person who sends files to printers not just digital print shops and it is the only tool that Adobe produced that when I was working I couldn't do without.
3. I think it was Jimi K that gave his way of preparing files for print using PS from Xara:- Well I would say why not let Xara produce the PDF and let the RIP do the work for you. If you do it your way you are going to have a lot of out of gamut colours coming from Xara in RGB to CMYK in PS
4. Now we come to Gradients and I can remember huge arguments about a few years back about quality:- The only way to get excellent gradients is to use a raster programme, like PS, it all about maths in a vector programme. You can't take a file that has been produced in one vector programme into another and expect it to be the same! You try taking a AI doc into Corel or Freehand and expect it look right or be able to edit it that makes no sense as each of them has a different way of rendering them. You can even try that in Illy take a doc. from CS 4 and try and open it in CS 3 when your'e using gradients.
5. Someone mentioned the Bitmap Tracer was poor! well I think it is fine you just have to know the settings and the right size to scan at. If you are wanting to trace a photo forget it but who needs to trace a photo any more when your phones have res. up to 16 Mp and we can blow up that res to any paper size used.
Now I wasn't trying to pick on anyone here I was just trying to blow away a few misconceptions. Sending a file to print is easy as if it was hard you wouldn't have people doing it every day but you must learn the rules first. Look on the net as that is the way I learned. In the first page of this thread I gave a bit of my own history just to show that I had a bit of experience working with vector files and bugger me why do I still use Xara to send to print there must be a reason. The pain fact it is faster, for certain types of work, yes even with an RGB screen display. with no CMYK artboard! Is it the one that I would use to draw cartoons with? no. That is why I stated that I used three vector programmes, Xara, Illustrator and Freehand all with different pros & cons. I could have listed the pros & cons for Illy underneath the ones that I did for Xara but the thread asked " was Pro an App. for Work" and I answered. I think the Pro version is a great app for web and print and for simple jobs there is none better in a lot of areas. Would I use it all of the time no for the same reason as Mike uses both Illy and InDesign no there is no one programme that will do all. I hope no one will take offence with what I have said here as it wasn't what was meant. If you take anything from what I have said here I hope it will be if you are sending docs. for printing have a copy of Acro Pro on your h/drive. Mind you you better be quick as Adobe have their "head in the clouds" with the new subscription service but that is another thread here on TG.
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
I have tried letting Xara produce the PDF (Native CMYK, etc, etc). The end results have always been a disappointment. It usually looks OK on screen after export but the printed article is usually dull and lifeless. I have found over many years that the best results come from going the RGB export of a bitmap and then convert to CMYK externally. I used to use Corel Draw for the purpose, but I no longer have a copy that will work with Windows 7. So now it's Photoshop. I would love it if XDP could do the job, but that hard facts are that it doesn't. At least not for me.
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Albacore
2. You would never use Illy to check files for print that is the job of Acro Pro:- What do you do before sending a job for print in Illy? You rasterize areas of your drawing and that is what the Export filter does in Xara automatically so areas of your file produced in Xara are rendered as a bitmap. So there are no real value in taking it into Illy far far better to check the file in Acro Pro where you will see the problems. Acro is a big tool and is a must for any person who sends files to printers not just digital print shops and it is the only tool that Adobe produced that when I was working I couldn't do without.
Thanks for the post Albacore. I don't think anyone should get offended by your pose. I personally welcome it since it leads to good intelligent dialog on this subject.
We all have had different experiences with XDP, and none of them should be ignored, but on the other hand we need to clear out any misconceptions about XDP as well.
One reason I would need to bring a .ai file produced by XDP into Illy, is because a client uses Illy, and wants to be able to open and possibly work with the file further in Illy if needed. So yes, in this case there is a need to check the file in Illy before the client gets it to make sure you don't get a phone call later telling you that the file is bad.
I would like to hear your response to Jimi King's situation with PDF files from XDP, CMYK etc.
Again, thank you for posting. I am learning a lot about XDP from everyone here.
Lets keep talking and sharing our experiences, lets keep it professional, and don't get offended by others comments - these comments can teach us a lot. We can all learn something from each other.
Cheers!
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WilliamHere
One reason I would need to bring a .ai file produced by XDP into Illy, is because a client uses Illy, and wants to be able to open and possibly work with the file further in Illy if needed.
@WilliamThere: In post#25 in direct response to your comment in post#24 I demonstrated that exporting from DPX as PDF/x and not .ai or .eps was the better format to choose.
There was a sound reason for this. Perhaps this might help you understand why I did so?
"Adobe Illustrator, as with other Adobe programs, is built on core PDF technology. In fact, the native Adobe Illustrator file format is PDF, and as such it is one of the best applications supporting direct export to PDF."
See ► http://www.graphics.com/modules.php?...icle&artid=839
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
Part of me thinks that this discussion about CMYK and preparing documents for print is crazy, because it relies upon the experience of every Xara user to accomplish a task that should have a definitive workflow for a product that describes itself as Pro.
I'd venture that it would be far better if Xara actually outlined a definitive process to get accurate CMYK colour and page reproduction in a print environment using Xara products.
That process could include the use of non-Xara tools to help, and include the way to move assets to and from Xara and Adobe software in a CMYK based workflow.
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
No, Paul, the issue/discussion isn't crazy.
The fact is that on every forum I inhabit--Adobe, Serif, Quark, and here--the same questions and misunderstandings abound. First clue...it isn't any of the aforementioned tools (usually) at fault. It is (usually) user error. Which is why these discussions are healthy.
Any work-flow that comprises two or more applications (much less from different vendors) increases the chance for change in color values and increases the amount of complexity in producing consistent art ready for print in the final application.
If I am creating vector art to be placed in ID, Quark or PagePlus, there is zero issue in the CMYK components that comprise that art. Attached is a screen shot from Xara showing the color editor. Another showing the PDF produced in Acrobat and its color panel. Last is the same Xara produced PDF, placed into ID and another PDF produced from ID showing the color output again in Acrobat.
Often times the misunderstanding is as simple as not understanding that CMYK cannot reproduce all of the RGB color gamut. Sometimes people do not understand that printing CMYK is not as simple as picking colors that "look good" on-screen and are disappointed in the results--often using words like "dull, lifeless, not vibrant." Designing in CMYK color ought to be done using a color swatch book, even in a color managed system and application.
Mike
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
forgot to add that for the print work i have done i have almost always sent my files as acrobat and not had any problems with printers who insisted on eps or ai
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Re: Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WilliamHere
...One reason I would need to bring a .ai file produced by XDP into Illy, is because a client uses Illy, and wants to be able to open and possibly work with the file further in Illy if needed. So yes, in this case there is a need to check the file in Illy before the client gets it to make sure you don't get a phone call later telling you that the file is bad...
I have clients using AI and often begin the work in XDP but finish it off in AI. Either it is finished in AI just for file compatibility or for AI's specific attributes and strengths. But it isn't to "color correct" the AI version of the file. Most clients could care less what I use.
The attached is the same design as above, brought into AI using the Xara produced PDF, showing the color panel in AI after opening the Xara PDF.
But for just printing out of Xara? PDF is what the printer gets. I have never, ever sent original files to a service bureau, quick printer or POD service.
Mike