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Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Hi, all. I was here back in October asking for help with Xara. The only art software I used before I got Xara was Photoshop Elements 4, which is a nice program except there's no vector pen. As for Xara, it's also a nice program except there's no eraser!!!!! :-O (Not to mention no paint bucket, but thanks to some of the nice people here, I'm starting to learn about shapes so I think it'll be okay.)
But about the lack of eraser - there is no way I can avoid overlapping lines when I outline stuff in Xara, so what I've been doing is outlining stuff, flaws and all, and then exporting the image to PSE and cleaning it up there with the eraser.
But that's so TEDIOUS and I'd like to use ALL of Xara's features and create complete drawings and art just in it, so what do I use in Xara that's the equivalent of an eraser? Thanks again guys for your patience and your help!
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
well now...
xara is a vector program - some vector purists would say that you don't need an eraser because you dont erase vector objects you cut bits off, which is easy enough to do and amounts to the same thing
there are artistic arguments for an eraser in xara - but these have been done to death recently - you could do a search if you are interested in that
to 'erase' in xara you need to look on the arrange menu under 'combine shapes' - specifically at 'subtract' and 'intersect'
if you have part of a shape that you want to remove you cover it with another shape select both and then 'subtract' - if you 'intersect' it will keep the bit covered and remove the rest
you can draw a closed shape with mouse or pen to do the covering if you wish
EDIT - intersect is of course a form of 'cropping' - we have a dedicated cropping tool too which is raved about by some of those who decry a dedicated eraser tool - such is life :D
another option is to use the 'slice' to 'cut' ie seperate the bits you don't want and then delete them - you do not need to use a shape for slice, you can just run a line across - but if its not a straight line you may find it does not always do what you might at first expect
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
You might try to set PSE as the Xara image editor. I use Photoshop at times. Just a thought. I have Akvis Smart Mask that I can run as a plugin and erase.
Rich
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Hmmm, that sounds interesting, thanks. How do I set PSE as image editor? And is Akvis Smart Mask a substitute for an eraser (if I'm understanding you correctly?)
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Thanks for the suggestions, handrawn! I appreciate it!
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Smart Mask is a program to separate the foreground from the background. Look at Akvis. Knockout 2 can do something similar. They have different ways of marking the separations.
Utilities, Options, Effects & Plugins. You would need to make a bitmap copy to use.
Rich
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Well you could select a point and break at point then delete the part of the line you don't want. for instance say you have a line with a nasty flaw or spike in it or some such, you could select and delete the offending point and the line will become straight between the points on either side. Sometimes you could add additional points to either side of the flaw and then delete the point in between, that way you will not delete parts you might want to keep.
To set PSE as image editor look in Utilities/options/Photo Editing.
Attachment 86329
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
wizard509
Well you could select a point and break at point then delete the part of the line you don't want. for instance say you have a line with a nasty flaw or spike in it or some such, you could select and delete the offending point and the line will become straight between the points on either side. Sometimes you could add additional points to either side of the flaw and then delete the point in between, that way you will not delete parts you might want to keep.
To set PSE as image editor look in Utilities/options/Photo Editing.
Attachment 86329
Did it. Thanks! So...forgive my ignorance...if I create an image in Xara and then want to erase things using PSE, how do I activate it? I don't see a button or shortcut on my Xara screen.
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
menu: utilities >options > photo editing tab to set up the editor as Larry [wizard509] said
then you double click the bitmap if you are in the enhance photos tool [or double click twice if you are not] and the editor should open - all saves you then make in the editor should be reflected back in xara [instead of to a file]
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
imagine xara is not a canvas, but scissors and construction paper. To erase, you can draw a "piece of construction paper" and use the boolean operations.
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Here's the thing....up until a couple of years go, I was a "traditional" artist - that is, I created my art using chalks, pencils, paints, inks etc. Only recently have I started using art software to create artworks. So I still have a lot to learn.
Which is to say: I have no idea what a "bitmap" is. What I meant to ask was: when I outline something in Xara, and then want to use Photoshop Elements to clean it up, and, as per Molucca's suggestion, I've set up PSE as my Xara image editor...how do I then open the image editor? I can't see how to do that when I open the Xara page.
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
ah right - well you can only do it like that for a bitmap in otherwords an image [a 'photo' as xara calls it ] - you cannot do it with a xara drawing , you would have to turn it into a bitmap image, either by exporting it as an image or by making a bitmap copy first and then you loose [most of] the editability in xara
photoshop is like a traditional painting - what you draw is like paint on a canvas
xara is not like that at all - xara is like a collage - lots of seperate pieces [objects] that sit on [technically above] the page and each other - Ron's bit about scissors is a good analogy... if you send these pieces out to photoshop you merge them all onto one canvas as an 'image' and you can no longer manipulate them as objects, only as 'paint'
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Hmmm...okay. So once again - to clean up lines in Xara, what do I do, since it has no eraser? I realize that the answer has probably already been given to me, but because of my newbie understanding of art programs in general, I don't understand it. Can you give me a step by step example, please? Thanks!
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
You might be better off providing an example of the kind of cleanup that you wish to do.
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
If you want to know more about the difference between bitmaps and vectors, search "difference between bitmap and vector" (without the quotation marks) in Google. It will list quite some interesting articles.
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
There's no technical reason why there shouldn't be a vector eraser, so the request for a vector eraser is perfectly legitimate, regardless of the legacy differrences found between vector and bitmap software.
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Can you give an example of the type of art work you art wanting to do?
People or carts or the like with subtle gradation like a photo or more stylized graphic type of work such as a logo or design?
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Good news.
I'm trialling the Eraser Tool at the moment.
If things work out fine, then an Easter release is scheduled.
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Okay, here's a Xara file of the Toonicorn that I outlined. (Hope this works). As you can see, it has overlapped lines and other lines that I'd like to remove. How do I do that without an eraser? Thanks!
Attachment 86373
(I have to add that I'm having a beast of a time with Xara. It feels so unnatural to draw a line and have it wiggle all over the place before you finish drawing it. And some of the lines look REALLY awful. I don't know if I'll ever get used to this program. :P )
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Toonicorn
Hmmm...okay. So once again - to clean up lines in Xara, what do I do, since it has no eraser? I realize that the answer has probably already been given to me, but because of my newbie understanding of art programs in general, I don't understand it. Can you give me a step by step example, please? Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pauland
You might be better off providing an example of the kind of cleanup that you wish to do.
Okay, I've done so in the post above. :)
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rik
Good news.
I'm trialling the Eraser Tool at the moment.
If things work out fine, then an Easter release is scheduled.
That's awesome, thanks!
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Toonicorn, on the other side of the coin, I've been using Xara products for 3 years, or so, and haven't thought once about using or needing an eraser tool. Other tools, yes! An eraser, no. Vector programs are about lines, curves, shapes and their manipulation using the nodes/points that comprise them with the Shape Tool (F4). Other tools are also handy when combined with Add, Subtract, Intersect and Slice shape operations, and the overlapping of shapes/objects.
You may want to take a breather and try one of Gary Priester's excellent XaraXone Tutorials. I HIGHLY recommended them. I'm thinking that the recent Rubber Ducky Tutorial would be a great place to start. I guarantee you'll learn at least one new technique in addition to node manipulation.
Give it a try!,
HayTay
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Hi Toonicorn,
You will need to connect your individual lines to form closed shapes. I have made some minor edits to your file and to form three closed shapes to demonstrate how a vector application can be used to create the toonicorn.
I would recommend not using a photo template for your drawings.
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2 Attachment(s)
Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
This one uses the colours from your avatar.
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Soquili
Hi Toonicorn,
You will need to connect your individual lines to form closed shapes. I have made some minor edits to your file and to form three closed shapes to demonstrate how a vector application can be used to create the toonicorn.
I would recommend not using a photo template for your drawings.
Thanks, Soquili. I know about closed lines - I just did the sketch in a hurry, hoping I might get some advice about how to eliminate overlapping lines since Xara has no eraser.
I didn't know I was using a photo template. ??? I think maybe that happened because I was trying to crop the original image and nothing else I found in the toolbars would let me do that.
The lines in that drawing are pretty bad. One thing that kept happening is that I would choose a pen stroke, but it would then default to another one (the same one every time) after I drew a line. Frustrating!
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Hi Toonicorn,
To remove the bits you don't want you need to use the Shape Tool.
Briefly: Select the line you want to edit, go into the Shape Tool, move the pointer to the place where you want the line to end and the pointer shape will change to a white arrowhead. Click to create a new point in the line, then select all the other points on the line beyond your new point (using marquee selection) and delete them.
This becomes very easy and natural the more you do it. One of the the excellent community helpers here might be able to explain it better.
Phil
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Hi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Toonicorn
It feels so unnatural to draw a line and have it wiggle all over the place before you finish drawing it. :P )
welcome to vector
vector lines are not 'natural' lines like paint, which Photoshop and other bitmap[aka raster, pixel] programs mimic - they are mathematically calculated line paths that exist 'off the page' and they have to be calculated as you draw - the more lines you draw, and the faster you draw, the more you will notice the process as it happens
xara's tools, such as the shape tool are very quick to use relative to other vector programs, but its a different approach
to work effectively in vector you are going to have to adjust to always doing a certain amount of repositioning and tweaking of lines after you have drawn them - if this is not what you want to do, a vector program may well not be what you need
you can minimise the 'wiggle' by using layers, as the calculations only affect the current layer - you can apply smoothing, but then the line does not end up following the path you actually drew - what I don't think you can get away from is the fact that vector is best suited for careful construction of a drawing from descrete parts, rather than drawing tightly controlled freehand lineart - I've never got it to work well for this, I tried for quite a while, but went back to using a dedicated [japanese] cartoon lineart bitmap program
if you are used to drawing a line to go where you want it as you draw it then personally I cannot recommend any vector program because form experience I don't think its the right tool for that job - colouring, lettering, paste-up yes, I do these often in xara, but not that sort of lineart
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
As someone who uses the Shape Tool probably more than all other tools combined, and is used to manipulating things on a node level all the time, I personally don't have a need for an eraser. However, I'm glad one's finally on its way, because the debate can finally be put to rest. Those who want it will use it, those who don't will ignore it or remove it from their toolbar. Case closed.
-- Ben
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ad1066
I'm glad one's finally on its way, because the debate can finally be put to rest. Those who want it will use it, those who don't will ignore it or remove it from their toolbar. Case closed.
-- Ben
Sadly, Rik was pulling our leg.
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pauland
Sadly, Rik was pulling our leg.
It's not even April 1st yet. :)
-- Ben
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Looks like I made a big mistake buying Xara - an expensive mistake. Let the buyer beware, I guess.
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Toonicorn
Looks like I made a big mistake buying Xara - an expensive mistake. Let the buyer beware, I guess.
That's a remark I really don't understand. Even though I think there should be an eraser, I know, like other Xara users, it's not a must-have tool.
There are a number of Xara users producing work of a similar style to yours, for several years now, so the lack of an eraser is an inconvenience but not a barrier. As you may have realised many Xara users prefer the vector graphics method of working because of it's precision.
It's really not at all a case of buyer beware, it's more a case of spending time to become familiar with the toolset rather than assume a particular tool is essential.
Try and spend some more time with the software, rather than just baling out. Others have already shown you that the work you are doing is perfectly possible with Xara.
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Toonicorn
Looks like I made a big mistake buying Xara - an expensive mistake. Let the buyer beware, I guess.
Say what? Let the buyer beware of what, exactly? All Xara products come with a fully functional 30 day trial and a full 30 day money back guarantee. Almost 60 full days to discover if you like Xara's product(s) and their features/functions. That's more than enough time to discover that there isn't any eraser, which several people have indicated that you really don't need, anyway.
Have you taken a whack at the tutorial that I provided a link for back in Post #22? If you don't like the Rubber Ducky, there are years of excellent tutorials on The XaraXone. Pick one and give it a go. If you spend a little time learning the tools available in the application, instead of spending time lamenting about an eraser that isn't available, the payoff will be huge. Why erase when you can directly manipulate and position the lines & objects? There are thousands of fantastic images made with Xara products posted on TG and, unless they were pre- or post-processed using another application, not one of them has needed an eraser tool to be completed.
That said, not every software application is for everyone. I must admit that CorelDraw frustrates me to no end.
Don't give up,
Harry
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
there's an excellent example (several really) on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQKIbTIEAwQ that shows one of the Xara members who does sketches completely in Xara. It may offer some insight for you.
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Toonicorn, you haven't wasted a penny. Listen to these guys. They know what's up.
I make a fulltime living using xara at work. Learn Xara's workflow.
If you're looking for natural media simulation, get artrage.
When you're done making a graphic in artrage, import it into xara, and make precise lines with the mouse and pen tool to finalize your sketches.
If you learn how to use xara properly, you will NOT REGRET your purchase.
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HayTay
Why erase when you can directly manipulate and position the lines & objects?
well you could say 'why erase and why directly manipulate either' when you could just draw the line right in the first place, though not of course in xara which is not designed for this - either approach takes its own kind of skill and whichever way you choose to do it, in reality the aim should be not to produce lines that need erasing in the first place
you need a pen too for the freehand approach to get pressure sensitive response
also if you are using stroke shapes and you remove part of the line that may not end up as you would wish
The real issue with eraser is ease and speed - remember speed?, its what xara claims to be good at, why should the shape tool have it all?
Harry makes a good point about learning the program first - actually xara is a damn fine program and excellent value for money, but like all programs it does what it does the way that it does it and you need to understand it to get the most out of it, and there are certain things it just cannot do - almost human eh? :D
and finally Xara is the only, repeat only, major vector editor that does not have an eraser and that should say something to everyone
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Toonicorn
...The only art software I used before I got Xara was Photoshop Elements 4, which is a nice program except there's no vector pen...
Then purchase one of the CS versions of Photoshop. Or PhotoLine. Either will allow integration of vector work and bitmap tools on different layers. Or, learn to use what you already have, XDP. But to learn XDP you will need to divorce yourself from thinking in bitmap terms for drawing.
A definitely workable solution is to do the initial drawing in XDP using shapes, lines and the easier fills in shapes. Then export out a copy as a PNG for manipulation within your Photoshop Elements. Neither application is exclusive to the other, they can be used in conjunction and several of the cartoon artists use them as such--sometimes beginning in one or the other.
Take care, Mike
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
One way to erase without having a dedicated 'Eraser Tool' in Xara Xtreme, Xara Photo & Graphic Designer, and Xara Designer Pro.
OK, maybe it's more constructive to demonstrate why a dedicated 'Eraser Tool' is really not needed in Xara's graphic applications. Literally, an 'eraser' of almost any shape can be quickly manufactured using the standard design tools. You can even color it pink if you'd like. ;) See the attachments for a quick demo.
Other times you can give the illusion of having 'erased' a portion of an object or image by merely drawing the required shape and positioning the shape over the area that you would like to appear missing. Need a 'softer eraser' effect? Just apply a bit of feathering to the overlying shape.
On the other hand, if a majority of Xara's customers, or potential customers, want an 'Eraser Tool', I say, "Give them erasers!" :-bd
Cool Stuff,
Harry
Attachment 86428
Attachment 86429
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
yes Harry - no offence, but acurate though that is in every respect it rather misses the point...
if you are drawing freehand it can break your concentration to have to take time out to do that, compared to say just 'press a modifier key and have your freehand[or shape] tool instantly become a 'remover' rather than a 'drawer' - now I am quite appreciate of the guys that make drawings in the 'tortoise' way, but sometimes I wonder if some of them appreciate what its like to be a 'hare' - I'm not saying toonicorn is one or the other, but xara is not really a program for true 'hares' IMO - not for those who want to draw lines that look like they were drawn with sable brushes anyhow - and yes you can do that in xara too with retrospective modification - if you have the time and nothing else to be getting on with..
anyhow the obvious solution for me is not to use xara for this.... I have several programs I don't use that much but I am truely grateful that, on the odd occasion, when I need them, I got them and kept them on-board.. xara will might slide into that catagory generally for me, already has for lineart, in which case I will cease to bore you all with 'best tool for the specific job first', 'swiss army knife second' stuff ;)
take care
[BTW - since the freehand tool already has a strictly limited 'press a modifier key and have your freehand tool instantly become a 'remover' rather than a 'drawer' function I wonder if it would be that hard to implement for lines already laid down, for that tool at least - but its not firm indication of course, I really don't know]
and in case anyone feels inclined to quote Aesop - that was just propaganda 'tha knowst' >:)
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Re: Back again - just wanted to thank everyone, plus ask about erasers
Think of Xara as an art "finalizer", "scalable art designer", "illustrative", "cardboard cutout" tool. It CAN be used for sketching, but if you want to scribble and erase lines etc, artrage. It's free, and awesome in different ways. Xara is never a waste, if you say it, then you don't understand it yet.