Look at this vector program Sketchbook Designer

I would love to see fills like these in Designer Pro.

If these features were implemented, I would predict that a ton of industrial designers would start using Xara. But first and foremost, it would need to be more friendly to people who draw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1F9y...yer_detailpage

The thing that I like other than applying a mould to a gradient fill is the idea of saving multi color fills like saving brushes in the line gallery. It would make sense to be able to save fills. Currently, i go back and find old designs and copy and paste attributes to apply a custom fill I made in the past.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqhyY...yer_detailpage

Looking at the way it does transforms and perspective, It makes Xara's mould tool look positively clunky.

Also notice how there is an eraser function.

This symmetry tool blows my mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0hmS...yer_detailpage

Currently, I'm holding off on getting it because 1) it's pricey, and 2) a lot of reviewers have mentioned that it's unstable and crash prone. But if it were solid and reliable, I would probably get it.

That looks cool. Many of the functions seem very similar to Xara's representation.

The symmetry tool, though would be a wonderful addition to Xara. I can imagine a tool where selecting objects and then clicking "Symmetry" allows a symmetry of those selected objects around any point/line/angle...as well as radial symmetry.

All of these can be done manually... but why? ;)

James

Very cool stuff there Sheff...

Is it worth £475? Think how much work you would need to do to get your money back. It's even more expensive than Illy and that is saying something!

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Originally Posted by Albacore

Is it worth �475? Think how much work you would need to do to get your money back. It's even more expensive than Illy and that is saying something!

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I'm in the lucky situation that I can use that Software for free.
This by the way is possible for every Student and University-Teacher, the license is valid for 36 months... So for me it is definedly worth what I spent :).
I believe it's not about money here. Autodesk products are notoriously expensive, the firm wants you to get you into all sorts of other Programs and want to sell subscriptions for their stuff.

This all said: Sketchbook Designer really is a highly interesting program. It lacks all DTP options and can do nothing to Bitmaps apart from displaying them.

That's intentional. Instead the program shines in areas where Xara, Corel and Illustrator have nothing to offer at all. One can blend beautifully between Curves and can interactively smooth them out. This doesn't come along as technical as in CAD-Surface-Modeling, instead it feels very natural. There's awesome reatime Curve-Booleans. So whenever Curves form a closed Domain one can fill it, simple as that.
No Ctrl+1,2,3, Limbo as in Xara, no conversion to Live Paint as in Illustrator. Just fill what's closed. Fills/Gradients btw. automatically get recalculated as soon as Shapes changes.
The Fill widgets are by far the best I have seen in any 2D Graphics Application. And all this is poored into a very slim GUI with working with Graphics Tablets in mind (although I have some issues here).

This all is awesome but I would also have a hard time to pay the full price.
The Xara-Makers imo really should have a close look at SketchBoook Designer. Adobe/Corel are surely too indolent to react in time... I would certainly consider Xara for my Sketching work when the >20 years old fundamental concepts of its drawing tools finally got a significant update. I believe there's quite a bunch of fellow Product Designers who would prefer giving their money to a small british firm instead of feeding the fat and not very friendly Giant.

It looks like the next generation of Xara if Xara took itself to the next generation. Xara was one of the first to feature on screen interactive controls. Canvas had some of this, and then Corel ripped off all of Xara's cool interactive features for version 7.

But this puts everything right at your fingertips. The small color wheel at the control point is really a great idea. Kind of like the difference between the controls on a small Cessna and a F-14.

I cannot imagine that Xara does not have a copy of this and is working to figure out how to extend the capabilities of Designer.

The ability to edit envelopes as well as to envelope a gradient fill would be really useful.

Good to hear that from you. You certainly know some of the Guys in charge and could give them a little Nudge or two.

I started playing with Sketchbook Designer. It's just foreign enough to be annoying. All in all, I'd rather like to see the mould effects on fills be added to Xara. Also, I'd like to be able to save my multicolor gradient fills. But a pencil, a paintbrush and an airbrush would be really awesome basic additions that I'd like to see in Xara.

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Originally Posted by Sheff

Also notice how there is an eraser function.

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Only in bitmap mode!

I've played a bit with it and it's definitely has great innovations.
indeed, Deforms are especially interesting

It's nice to see such improvement happening in the illustration field.

The edit curves tools are quite cool, with adjustable sliders and manipulators.
I like really like the combine curves tool, as seen in this video at 1:10
http://www.youtube.com/user/SketchBo.../0/AVr9wBFf3OY

A lot of very good ideas but not all are well implemented.


Plusses

-Innovative transformation tools
-Great curve edit and connection tools
-Gradient deformation
-Variable width strokes
-Skeletal strokes
-One click deletion of crossing segments
-Free Canvas rotation


Minusses

-Cannot select the object as whole, only as segments.
-NO transparencies.
-Variable width controls doesn't work very well (Although the idea is excellent)
-No "outline" vector export of variable width lines
-Quite heavy, and rendered strokes are a bit slow to tweak even on simple projects
-Absolutely no keyboard shortcuts
-Oversimplified controls at times, there is neither bezier or bspline type direct point curve controls.


Similar creative tools combined with Xara's flexibility, speed, lightness and stability would be quite something.

Marc

Sketchbook Designer Pro is very cool and has some of the most unique implementations of the standard pen tool I have ever seen.

A warning tho, it is absolutely PLAGUED with glitches. Expect a lot of crashing, and, if you are not using a high ebd Wacom brand tablet expect compatibility issues.

In fairness , the version I used was one of the trials at rollout time, but, honestly it was to unstable to bother with. Its probably been updated since then.

I am not a big fan of Autodesk, thier prices seem high and Macrovision has made me want to puke since C-Dilla slithered it's way into my hard drive back in the Discreet days and hogged all my memory. Lol

I actually quite like the variable width feature - could always be better of course

The interface I like not at all

I sketch very fast, and the 'puck' that pops up with every stroke for adjusting the stroke just made kept getting in the way - pita - maybe it can be disabled

and it is not worth the asking price - agreed

Hi Coco,
I agree with many of your points. Some comments:

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Minusses

-Cannot select the object as whole, only as segments.

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That's not correct. Check the (fantastic) Transform Controls on the Right.

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-NO transparencies.

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There's Layer Transparency as well as Blend Modes. Indeed there's no by Object Transparency.

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-Absolutely no keyboard shortcuts

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Well, there's some, but definedly to few. This is really a pain.

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-Oversimplified controls at times, there is neither bezier or bspline type direct point curve controls.

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Well, there's quite comprehensive Curve Controls - much more suitable ones than inside Xara for Product Design work at least - but there's in fact no Bezier handles.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by handrawn

I sketch very fast, and the 'puck' that pops up with every stroke for adjusting the stroke just made kept getting in the way - pita - maybe it can be disabled

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It can be set to be triggered with Ctrl+Shift in Preferences.

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Originally Posted by Blackthorne

Sketchbook Designer Pro is very cool and has some of the most unique implementations of the standard pen tool I have ever seen.

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Yeah, I find courageous that they created such a consequently Tablet Input geared GUI which many Users coming from a Mouse Centric Application will not like...

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A warning tho, it is absolutely PLAGUED with glitches. Expect a lot of crashing, and, if you are not using a high ebd Wacom brand tablet expect compatibility issues.

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I have a Cintiq and still have problems. Oddly that program only seems to work fine when the Cintiq is set to primary Monitor (which I can't do for several reasons).

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Originally Posted by polyxo

Yeah, I find courageous that they created such a consequently Tablet Input geared GUI which many Users coming from a Mouse Centric Application will not like...

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well yes that's true - and I guess I would get used to it.. it's not as if I am mouse-centric, certainly don't sketch with one..:D

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It can be set to be triggered with Ctrl+Shift in Preferences.

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and that would certainly help thanks..


but the price remains a deal-breaker for me

I draw. A lot. And I am trying to use Xara more for this, but a lot of the drawing process in Xara isn't tablet friendly. That is my biggest personal frustration with it. That said, I use Xara more than any other program to earn my living.

The price isn't a factor for me because as a student, I got a free license for it. The learning curve for me is trying to use an radically different application after using Xara for 18 years.

I'd much rather see Xara add significant improvements than switch programs.

If I could paint with vectors, in Xara I would. But again, I wish i had the ability to create more custom painterly brushtrokes and have the ability to draw/paint with shapes.

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Originally Posted by Sheff

The price isn't a factor for me because as a student, I got a free license for it. The learning curve for me is trying to use an radically different application after using Xara for 18 years.

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Sheff, you have some fantastic artwork on your site, so I'm a bit surprised to see you as a Student! What are you studying?

Paul

Animation, specifically visual development. I was urged to get a masters by my job as a teacher, but I was let go earlier this year. Since I'm at about halfway, I might as well finish.

Sounds like a good plan. I'm sure you'll do well at it.

I used to tech computer programming at evening classes back when I was twenty five and I remember what fun it was. If I could do it again, I would.

The program rocks, once you learn it. And its a joy to learn and to use.

However its probably based on Nurbs curves instead of splines which comes from 3d technology.

You have everything at your fingertips and everything is very easy to use. No tiny points you have to click.

Its very fast since everything is right there and very precise.

It still lacks a few basic things, such as a basic rounded corner box no object transparencies and the price.

But if Xara can be inspired and move in this direction I would prefere Xara.

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Originally Posted by spline

But if Xara can be inspired and move in this direction I would prefere Xara.

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I agree. Xara will attract industrial designers/painters/illustrators if they added similar tools. Comic book illustrators, storyboard artists will also benefit.

have a long way to go to compete with Manga Studio for comic books, but I can certainly see it being useful for storyboarding and hi-end colouring work

If I were to create a comic, I wouldn't use it to create the art. Xara is much too tedious for that. However, it is good for arranging panels and adding text to imported artwork.

Xara is very good for 'layout' yes.

when it comes to panels... http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthre...it-inside-tabs

hmm, I just had checked out manga studio because I was interested in it's illustration capabilities. I was very unimpressed, when compared to xara. Not really sure why you'd say it's "tedious" for cartooning work. I'd like to know. Thanks!

Manga Studio is not an illustration program Ron ;)

okay.... what?
is xara an illustration program?

*greatly confused*

a tractor has four wheels [or more] and an engine and qualifies as a motor vehicle - you could hop on it and drive 600 miles down the freeway [law permitting] to visit your cousin Lucy, but you probably wouldn't

likely you would use the tractor for what its good at, and choose something more appropriate to do the visit in

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Originally Posted by handrawn

a tractor has four wheels [or more] and an engine and qualifies as a motor vehicle - you could hop on it and drive 600 miles down the freeway [law permitting] to visit your cousin Lucy, but you probably wouldn't

likely you would use the tractor for what its good at, and choose something more appropriate to do the visit in

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There's always one (sorry Steve)..

http://www.amazon.com/Straight-Story...8066805&sr=1-1

I think handrawn is making the point that Xara is a great illustration program but there are workflows involved with cartooning that are better served by some more focussed applications. It's not a question of not being able to use Xara, but a more focussed app for cartoons can prove easier to use.

Well ,if indeed this is the case, what programs are then recommended

I think it comes down to the individual. Handrawn has suggested Manga Studio, many people like to use Xara for cartoons. Part of the decision comes down to whether you use a mouse or tablet and whther you like manipulating vector shapes or a more fluid interaction with pixels.

Rather than take someone else's advice, download some trials and see how you get on. You may well prefer Xara, or you may even adopt a hybrid approach using Xara with another program.

There is no "super" program that does everything well.

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Originally Posted by pauland

There's always one (sorry Steve)..

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:D hence my saying 'likely you would...' :D

apologies to Sheff for derailing the thread, and to Xara too [this being the Dear Xara forum :o]

Ron - open a new thread to ask the question - I'd be happy to elaborate:)

Apologies if I've not understood something but cost being prohibitive has been mentioned in this thread.

Sketchbook Pro 2011 is about $50/£50

Am I looking at the wrong thing?
Are Sketchbook Pro and Sketchbook Designer very different things?

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Originally Posted by Rik

Apologies if I've not understood something but cost being prohibitive has been mentioned in this thread.

Sketchbook Pro 2011 is about $50/£50

Am I looking at the wrong thing?
Are Sketchbook Pro and Sketchbook Designer very different things?

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Yes indeed. These are different programs.
Sketchbook Pro is a Pixel based Sketching Program while Sketchbook Designer also contains advanced Vector tools geared towards Consumer-Good Design.
They among others allow fine grained control rework of Pixel Sketches for Transfer to CAD-Packages. I think everybody searching Cartoon-Drawing application could get cheaper and more suitable options.

For Mac users there's a FREE edition of Sketchbook - Sketchbook Copic - just go to the Mac Appstore and get it.