First try at a portrait in XaraX...
---As The Crow Flies!---
Maya
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First try at a portrait in XaraX...
---As The Crow Flies!---
Maya
First try at a portrait in XaraX...
---As The Crow Flies!---
Maya
Hi Maya,
Very nice portrait! The hair is excellent and the skins tones are great. The only thing that seems a little off is the shading along the jaw. It seems to be a little too sharp edged. Great Work! Anyone would recognize Sandra.
Soquili
My poor eyes were worn out--but you were right, and I replaced the pic with the revision to soften the area...just right!!! Thanks [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] !!!
---As The Crow Flies!---
Maya
... beautiful, in real life and in your portrait! I agree with Soquili - stunning work on her hair!
Maya, you create some amazing images! However, the jaw section towards the back of her head seems a little bit too narrow (or pronounced) to me. She still think she looks great, though! I love the way you made the vectors seem to soft.
I think she is recognizable from the eyes alone!
You truly are an artist, Maya!
Risto
risto@ristoklint.com
Visit my web site!
I added a bit of darkening to the area and revised the pic. Thanks for your kind compliments!!! I'm just a painter [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] --nothing more!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Xara is fun to learn! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Thanks again!!!
---As The Crow Flies!---
Maya
You're awesome Maya! Great job, I recognized her the second I saw her, great subject. I've been to scared to ever attempt a portraite, but you've inspired me and I'll start studying it! awesome
Steve Newport
thank you so much!!! I know you can do just as well at portraits, probably better in fact--just get to work on it now!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Thanks for your kind compliments!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
---As The Crow Flies!---
Maya
I recognized her immediately myself. I've painted portraits, and find them to be the most difficult of all subjects, because anything that is off just a tiny bit, can ruin the likeness.
Great job!
Dale
Why, I’m afraid I can’t explain myself, sir, because I’m not myself, you know...
- Lewis Carroll
Yes, you're so right about it being tricky!!! Sometimes the best thing is to just stop working on it and resume on another day when the eyes have had a rest and then it can be easier to figure out what to do. I'm happy if I can get a likeness! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] I worked on this today and part of yesterday--whew!!! I'll have to work on someone else soon...you learn something from every attempt.
Thanks Dale!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
---As The Crow Flies!---
Maya
Great revision Maya!! For being "just a painter" you have great artistic skills ;-)
May I ask what is your basic technique for a portrait? I tend to get a basic shape for the head, then draw the eyes in detail. Then I will work outward from the eyes adding details as I go.
Beautiful portrait of a beautiful young lady.
Soquili
It sounds like we approach drawing portraits about the same! I first outline the shape of the face--pretty close to what it really needs to be, I then start on eye placement and do a general shaped outline. I add a nose shape and lips basic shapes. I outline the shape of where the hair will be and general color---each shape is given a medium to light color of what it will eventually become. I then go back to work on the eyes---if these don't come out right I would start over, they are pretty critical. Placement and size and shapes of nose and lips are probably equally critical...each one of these can ruin the outcome if you don't get a close likeness. After that the rest is smooth sailing. Shading, for me is easy because I am a painter and have been practically all my life--brushes and airbrush work--so that part is last and the least taxing. The shapes of the features is the tricky part and no amount of shading will fix major flaws. I know you understand what I mean! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] I have no "tricks" for portraits, I only used 3 blends in her hair--the rest of the portrait was all transparencies and layers.
Thanks again for your reply, Soquili!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
---As The Crow Flies!---
Maya
How the hell did you get her done so fast??? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] Goddess, girlfriend, she looks good enough to lick [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
No really, beautiful work Maya. I'm inspired.
Something about the jaw bothers me, like it is narrowed a bit too much right where the hair is falling over it, but everything else is perfect. Wonderful hair, wonderful eyes, wonderful lips. Just wonderful!!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
You got 5 stars from me honey!!!
RAMWolff [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Maya,
of all people here, your picture means the most to me !!
Just because Sandra ist my all time favourite oh-my-god-I-just-love-her girl.
And one day she will find out about me and we will be happy together from this day forth ... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]
Stunning picture of my love, you are not 'just a painter', you are A painter !!!
Wolfgang
Sandra is mine!!!
Ah, dream on. She's young enough to be my granddaughter.
Nice work Maya. I recognized the likeness immediately.
Gary
Gary Priester
Moderator Person
<a href="http://www.gwpriester.com">
www.gwpriester.com </a>
XaraXone
Gary,
you are right with one thing: she's young enough to be your granddaughter probably [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]. Well, not exactly granddaughter, daughter would do as well.
BUT: She's old enough to be my wife (she's one year younger than me) AND she speaks german. If that ain't fate ...
I'll send you an invitation when the day comes ... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Wolfgang
It's not every day that a beauty makes a gay man pant and if she had to get married, then, well hopefully you are a good looking guy and the both of you together would make a good looking brood of little Wolfgangs and Sandra's [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Aint day dreaming fun?? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Maya, I think you picked the right subject, eh?? Sandra's got more fans than I think she even knows about [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
RAMWolff [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
I would love to see the image you worked from.
I do my portraits pretty much the same as you, though I like to do the basic hair shape before I position the eyes.
Dale
Why, I’m afraid I can’t explain myself, sir, because I’m not myself, you know...
- Lewis Carroll
WOW, she's got fans here alright!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Thanks for all the kind words!!! I worked from several photos so this image is not exactly like any one of them...tried to be careful about that, and didn't want to get something to look exactly like a photo!!! Although, that might have been ok for practice, but then I couldn't have posted it here...so in that respect, it's best it isn't "perfect". This was close enough I felt to be a good likeness. If I had the real "Sandra" to work from it would have been easier. All the photos make her look different in each one--coloring, hair, facial angles, it gets mind-boggling without the actual person to see. I did what I could with what I could scrounge up. This is a first try at portraiture in XaraX and a learning one, but the next will be easier--and with portraits practice really counts, and I'm out of practice with the subject, actually, as I usually don't do portraits of people, the last time I really did one seriously was almost 20 yrs. ago!!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] It's been a while!
Well, I'll let you guys fight it out over Sandra [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] ...I've got tons of things I have to do this weekend, but I'll check back if anyone wants replies. Thanks so much, RAMWolff, [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] for the stars too!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
---As The Crow Flies!---
Maya
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If I had the real "Sandra" to work from it would have been easier. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sigh!
I have to second that, oh how I'd love to have the real Sandra to work from ...
RAMWolff: You are herewith officially invited. Just because you won't try to take her away from me (like Gary would).
And to anybody who is not yet addicted to her: Buy or rent the DVD to 'Miss Congeniality' and listen to the directors/producers comment throughout the movie. The producer is none other than my beloved Sandra and I tell you, this is even funnier than the movie itself ...
Wolfgang
You've captured the eyes perfectly. I don't see the jaw thing others are refering to. Sandra does have strong features.
Wolfgang - In all seriousness, perhaps you should develop a Sandra fan website. You have the skills (and luv) to do it better than anyone else. Make it so good that it will in time come to the attention of Sandra and give you the opportunity to perhaps meet her in the future. (For instance: Once you have a great site perhaps she'd agree to your interviewing her. Once she gets to know you, marriage will be inevitable).
I once read a story about a fan who created a awesome site about the Beastie Boys (white rap group). The band was so impressed with the site they hired the guy to tour with them and chronicle their lives on tour. It is a fans' fairy tale come true.
Wolfgang, channel you Sandra-luv into a nice creative project. It will give you an excuse to think about her all day long as well as your slumber dreams. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Regards, Ross
<a href=http://www.designstop.com/>DesignStop.Com</a>
Thanks so much guys!!! Ross, I couldn't have gotten this far without you, Gary, and the others here. Your helpfulness and teaching is reflected in everything I design with Xara.
Wolfgang, you know, Ross has a mighty fine idea there...just think of the website you could create, and who knows--wouldn't that be wild if she contacted you about it!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] Hey, funnier things have happened and it's truly a "small world" as they say. At the very least, you could enjoy creating the website and be involved with Sandra to your heart's content (almost! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] ). Why not!?! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
---As The Crow Flies!---
Maya
... Maya, excellent portrait! Yep recognised her straight off.
The eyes are beautifully done and the hair looks great. You mention you only used 3 blends, could you perhaps enlarge on the technique, I would be interested in how you did this.
You also mention that you work on something then go back to figure things out, yes I do that too. I find that when getting really involved in a picture, such as one which needs to be 'just right' like a portrait, I can often 'stop seeing it', and so cannot tell what needs to be changed or what is wrong. I look at it and think this or that is not quite right but I'm not sure exactly what to change.
One technique I used to use when doing 'hard copy' artwork was to look at the drawing in a mirror. For some reason, I suppose because the drawing is reversed, the brain can then often discern better anything that is not quite right; because it is so used to seeing the image that a new 'angle' or view seems to click the right buttons.
Actually with computer graphics I suppose it would be easier as an image could just be reversed, to see what it looks like. Although I haven't actually tried this as I have only just thought of it ... hmmm.
Brilliant work Maya.
Regards
Su
Thanks for your kind words!!! Yes, I know about the "mirror trick" too--actually my husband uses it when working on wood sculpture a lot. I haven't resorted to it yet, but I know it gives another aspect on shapes which can be helpful in figuring out where to change things. For me, though, if it looks poorly the right way it looks just as poor the wrong way [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] . The best thing for me is to just to leave it for a while and come back later after the eyes have had a rest--usually then the "problem" is glaringly apparent...then the situation is if it can really be fixed or if the whole thing is way off and needs a major overhaul. Different days make a difference too--some days it just all comes together perfectly, other days nothing seems right and that's the time to step back for a day.
I don't have any "tricks" for this--pretty much just the standard approach and very similar to the way Newton's tut shows it. Layers of diffused transparencies and feathering--close colors for getting the blended effect. Using "blends" isn't as accurate for me, so I just mixed blends a few times in the hair was all. The transparency layers, for me, is the fastest and most controlled--true, you can ungroup blends and select individual ones to change, but this also seems to create more shapes than is necessary at times to go through. I edit down through lots of transparencies and don't want any more than necessary to work through. This works well for me--on another portrait perhaps more blends would be used...just depends.
Vladimyr's style, on the most recent "Xena", is a much more blended effect--but this can be accomplished the same way, just use less detail and overall softening of the features for an oil-paint effect, as is Newton's--everything you need really is in Newton's tut, and I would recommend everyone study it who wants to do portraits in a similar syle [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img].
Thanks again Su!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
---As The Crow Flies!---
Maya
I would love to see your technique on this piece. Perhaps, if you could manage the time, show us how you you did it step by step.
As you know I still do most of my "human" stuff in photoPaint and would love any excuse to try it in XaraX. I just looked at Vladimyr's stuff and the amount of little tiny pieces would boggle my mind. Like you and Su were discussing, you spend to much time staring at the project and you loose your perspective. I know that I would in such a case. I would have to walk away from it quite a bit and I am not one to do that. I read that you used minimal layers of color to get her done, I want to learn that trick.
So how about it??? Pretty Please [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Thank you Maya
RAMWolff [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
I have to add my congrats to the rest.
Lovely work.
Brian.
I really appreciate your kind comments!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
RAMWolff--a "step-by-step" would still be a huge endeavor, and would be far too big a "tut" for the forum probably. There are a lot of pieces in this one, I can't say if there are fewer than in Vladimyr's. Possibly there are because of the facial angle on mine and with simpler lighting and background...if I were to try to duplicate Vladimyr's it could be I'd end up with about the same as he has---I don't know how many layers he used without the .xar file. I can tell you, though, that being very close with your colors will result in fewer layers...what I mean by this is, like when I begin a face, I start with a medium color for the skintone (that which is closest to most of the face's coloration). The next areas, after the eyes, which will be shaded are the nose and lips (eyes, I always do first and work on quite a bit right at the start) and these are of course a bit darker in color than the surrounding medium skin tone. Tip #1--overlay "elliptical" shaped transparencies of lighter tone or darker to shade and blend. I use elliptical most of the time--circular on places that are really round, such irises, but elliptical works better in most of the shaping. Just draw a rough shape of the area you want to cover with a transp. layer, choose no line color, elliptical, feather a bit, adjust the transparency--you can also use the profile to further adjust the way the transparency shades, play with the color, clone the layer if it needs to be just a bit more opaque, take a chance and duplicate the object which moves it down and to the right---often this just adds more blending fortuituously where you may need it next...One shape can be used many times with just resizing the last one you used, rotating it, etc.
Tip#2---don't forget to shade with lines too--there I used tapered ends on most lines, even for hair tips as it gives a better look. If you have trouble making small roundish highlights with the circle shape, try a short bit of line and give it a fat line width, shorten some more and it can work out fine too. Use transparencies on your lines, and also the bitmap fill for a very broken diffuse fine line. Don't forget the "airbrush" brush line--it can help delicate shading in places, but be warned that use of too many "fancy" brush strokes can lead to the DREADED OFFSET deletion of your work.
Tip#3---I'm sure you know this, but for anyone else, BE SURE TO SAVE YOUR WORK VERY FREQUENTLY, AND AT VARIOUS STAGES SAVE YOUR WORK UNDER ANOTHER NAME ("SAVE AS")so if something like that offset crud should happen you still have something to go back to. I did this several times on "Sandra". The more shapes you add the more chance there may be a crash.
Tip#4---draw the shadows...outline the eyes, but for nose and lips just draw shapes of the shadows' areas. Add detail lines last if needed--and when using lines make them transparent and keep that color-picker at hand to get the color right.
Tip#5---feather, feather, feather--even lines you use for shapes.
Tip#6---don't be afraid to overlay white transparencies to bring forward areas and highlight them...pile them on just like a "glazing" technique in oil painting---lots of very subtle transparent layers sometimes is what is needed. Experiment with the types of transparency also, "mixed" isn't always the best.
Basically, a lot of playing and experimenting goes on with each shape added. There it is just up to you and what you are trying for in coloration. If you want a more 3D look to a face you need more color and/or contrast between the bone structure shapes....this is the trickiest in some ways, since when you get to this stage the shading can reshape areas you don't want reshaped and then you wonder why the features are changing away from what is desired. There's no right or wrong way to do any of this, in fact I think practice at it is the best advice. Just jump in there and expect to work at it a while. Every new project will teach you better and faster ways of your own and it will get easier and easier with the experience. I wish I could show you what goes on in my mind as I work on something like this, what decisions I make at each addition as the picture changes constantly...when I might choose colors to use you wouldn't expect (experiment with underlayers of warmer or cooler colors in shadowed areas on the face, etc...). It would probably be about as exciting to go through this "mind" scan as I worked on something, as to watch grass grow [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] . Perhaps I may do a simpler portrait and try to key in on the main points...I'll think about it, see if I could make it coherent for others. I find myself just "winging it" most of the time I work on anything---I like to see what will happen next when I experiment, this often produces results I really like more than what I had planned! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
For now, please study Newton's tut---his is the only example I had to use, and what I learned from that is what basically I built on for "Sandra"...and it would be very easy to get an even softer look like Vladimyr uses doing the same things, just use more softly faded shapes and line elements.
Tip#7---practice, practice, practice.
Tip#8---Lord's tip: "remember what you see".
Tip#9---give yourself frequent eye breaks, like Gary advises.
Tip#10---patience, patience, patience, don't hurry yourself, don't be hard on yourself, you'll get it right.
Hope there is some help for you in this! I'll do some more portraits soon and perhaps I can work out the steps fully for one... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
---As The Crow Flies!---
Maya
[This message was edited by Crow Haven on April 07, 2002 at 14:58.]
I've been away a few days and so much has taken place here.
This is lovely Maya and nice to read about some of your technique too.
Bob C.
Glad you liked her too!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
---As The Crow Flies!---
Maya
Thanks for posting your tips. I'm at work now (Ya its Sunday night and I have to work as usual) so I don't have time to study them. I look forward to doing so when I get the chance. Thanks.
Regards, Ross
<a href=http://www.designstop.com/>DesignStop.Com</a>
.
to explain things a bit. It's what I thought, LOTS of layers and transparencies [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]
OH well, maybe one of these days when I'm feeling really brave.
Thanks again. The tips are greatly helpful and appreciated [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
RAMWolff [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Thanks Roman for viewing "Sandra", and your kind comment!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
You're most welcome Ross and RAMWolff!!! I hope I can come up with a better way to illustrate what I'm trying to describe...I'll try to break a portrait down into steps and condense it into some sort of tut---it will be a few days, though, as I've got to do my taxes yet! UGH!!! So this week I may not get it all done at once...but you'll see it along with another portrait in the near future. RAMWolff, don't let my long-winded description of the layers of transparencies fool you---it sounds much more complicated than it is, and if I could show you, you would see that it's also a lot faster than you expect once you get the hang of it. It's really not hard at all!!! It just seems an odd way to "paint" when you're used to other methods, but it becomes second nature the more you practice with it, and before long you find yourself in the "Xara-Think Mode" and it doesn't seem to interfere with progress at all, quite the contrary, it lends speed. I wouldn't have done the portrait in a day and a half if it was difficult...and I expect the next ones will be easier and quicker yet as I learn and get handier at it. Please just jump in on some projects with this technique and take your time. If you have any questions or problems you want to ask me about as you go along, please do, you know how to find me [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] , and I'll do all I can to be helpful. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
---As The Crow Flies!---
Maya
X-L-nt Maya.
[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
I really appreciate your compliment!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
---As The Crow Flies!---
Maya
... for the info Maya I will check out Newton's tutorial. The hair really is excellent as is the rest of her.
Also thanks for the time taken to explain your technique, I haven't gone through it all yet but I will do later.
Yeah I haven't used the mirror trick for a long while, mostly if I don't seem to be making any headway with a picture I just leave it and come back later.
Regards
Su