Proof????

Can Xara take apart a picture of a scanned image that has some text?

Can that scanned imaged in Quality View show rectangles around the text that is scanned?

After un-clipping the Jpeg rectangles of text are visible?

This is an image i'm talking about, scanned to the computer, this image has text in it.

Can someone look into the PDF that the Whitehouse posted?


****://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf

I downloaded the pdf when they first posted, they may have changed it to a pdf of a jpeg by now, but for sure it looks questionable, or it's just me not understanding Xara??


Thanks, i don't have a working scanner/printer to check it out atm.

(:|(:|(:|

spam

Member was registered in 2004 and has 75 posts, none of them spam... :rolleyes:

fair point - ok if someone wants to remove the ban fair enough

but I fail completely to see what the USA president's birth certificate and xara have in common other than an excuse to make a political point

To answer mljk:
Xara is only displaying what is contained within the .pdf file. Many scanners incorporate OCR functions and will (when possible) create text where it can. What you are seeing simply indicates OCR was used when scanning the Birth Certificate.

The attached .xar file is a portion of a photocopy of my son's birth certificate that I scanned and saved as a pdf file then imported the pdf into Designer Pro 6. I removed the portions that would identify my son. The photocopy is not very good quality but that is to be expected of the equipment available over 40 years ago.

In my opinion it is ridiculous that anyone would think that anyone could or would be elected president of the United States that was not born in the US. Just goes to show that even someone without much knowledge of how things actually take place can become a multimillionaire and have a so called 'Reality' tv show. :(

Understood,

however, your pdf is broken down and includes text files etc, while on the other hand, the one i'm talking about has no text in it, only rectangles and a single JPEG.

My pdf only contains text that my scanners pdf filter extracted from the scan.

Unless the the exact same scanner ( a cheap product bundled with my computer) was used to create the pdf posted by the White House, you cannot assume anything by the presence of text within my pdf.

If course anyone wanting to believe in a conspiracy will always find flaws within any "proof" given by anyone. This is one of the reasons the President any I consider this episode is total silliness. Regardless of any proof there will always be those who will not believe and will continue to sow mistrust.

Remember the Dan Rather witch-hunt?

I don't want to take this into a spin, even though this is the off-topic section, but i also downloaded the other pdfs on the said page and got completely different results, assuming they were actually from the hospital in question. (i don't want to go into the the politics of this, just answers)

Look closely at the .xar again.

By the way, Thanks John!
I understand Steve J your actions, i've been seeing a lot of spam lately.
No hard feelings!

I remember mccarthyism from back in the 1950s.

To put the birth certificate nonsense in perspective, don't you think the Republican party would have jumped on any hint that there was anything suspicious about where Obama was born?

That is unless you believe that the Republicans put McCain and Palin together so that any Democrate would be elected?? ;)

It's was the Hillary camp that started this, you don't need to go back to the 50s.
Spending over 2mil to hide something and all of sudden after pressure from a Billionaire, and lying about 2 weeks ago in essence saying that back then the top news is about his birth certificate should, i repeat should raise eyebrows.

I really don't want to get into this politics Bill, respectfully man. I think the ocr you're talking about turns images into text, so then why no text was found in the pdf?

That's what i want to know.

I made a decision to use ocr with my scanner, the default is image. Perhaps who ever made the scan for the White House simply elected to use the default, or more than likely did not know about using ocr.

When I worked in Washington DC not many people in politics were knowledgable about anything, I don't think it has changed much in the past 20 years. :D

LOL i figured you were into politics..

umm then why weren't the pdf have even more rectangles?

The .xar file below has 3 layers of interest...

pdf in tact / pdf un-clipped / certificate of correspondence, both as-is and un-clipped
all optimized for viewing.


hope this helps

Depending on the scanner the entire image could have been one large rectangle.

The hardware and software in the scanner will detect slight difference in background or ink in the text or light reflection and normalize it into a rectangular shape, even a blank piece of paper will exhibit the same thing. To our eyes a new sheet of paper will look all the same tint of white, but it is not.

Dust in the tracking mechanism for the light source in the scanner can cause variance of movement which will result in some added rectangles.

see post # 14

Yes what your .xar displays is exactly what I was talking about in post #15.

Two of the rectangles are where a rubber stamp was used to input the date the Registrar accepted the registration of the birth. The shape of the text and it's difference in value make it a prime candidate for it's own rectangle. The single rectangle at the very top of the form is where the machine that makes the blank form distorted the pattern. See attached png of a magnified image of that particular rectangle.

The word "none" within the birthcertificate has different levels due to the ribbon on the type writer that created the word moving into a portion that has been slightly less used.

The rectangle below the green pattern will naturally be there because the way a scanner works. The areas of text differ greatly from the white background.

i'm working on a short video of it..

elaborate on the stamp issue if you please? what i see and you see are 2 different things.
explaine why some text was lifted, and the heavy lines weren't?

To what end?

Nothing I say will prove anything.

you stated earlier that you worked in washington, so you may have an agenda.

you also showed an image that can be misleading.

you claim that the single rectangle at the very top is where the machine that makes a blank form distorted the pattern, you even attached a pattern of it.

stated that the rectangle below the green pattern will naturally be there because the way the scanner works.

also the areas of text differ greatly from the white background.



where to start...


explain why the signature of the local registrar has a completely lifted (L) and under it shows a faint line starting from the bottom.

also why the date accepted of AUG - 8 196 is lifted and greyer than the number 1?

look at the signatures and other areas including the left side of the document that looks like a book was folded and then place in a scanner.

do you honestly can say that not one single line could have been lifted also?


the video below is very short, i was going to make better quality and in parts, but the .xar file is enough and a true.

You have an agenda don't you. :D

Regardless of what you think, you have not proved anything except you are confused by what you found within a file and want to believe there is some consiracy involved.

Please continue your life with peace. I will not participate any further in this conversation.

The only commodity anyone truely possesses is the time between their birth and their death. There are many that want to steal that commodity and once they think they have stolen some from you they continue by saying, just one more this or one more that; hoping to get more of your time.

not really, i don't have an agenda,

however i was one of the first person to download the pdf that the world is hearing about now, and with my basic knowledge of Xara designer pro i quickly saw what surely looks questionable.

it's sad to see that you misunderstood me, all i want is to be 100% sure that what was posted on the official wh website was not like the Dan Rather false document over Bush, and i didn't want to rely on any blogger or other software user to conclude anything that couldn't be concluded in XDP6 which is a rocking software.

please if you didn't start with the whole politics thing perhaps you would be like me and still want to be 100% right on an issue that took Donald to make a bigger impact on a president's political fate and perhaps ending some questions for some.

don't end here Bill i respect you, just step back like i'm doing and see what can be uncovered or finalize here without looking at the internet for answers.

take care
i'll go watch the playoffs now, Heat moves on, hopefully the Spurs can hang in there.

There is nothing that either of us can do to prove or disprove the authenticity of the document. Making assumptions about what an object within a pdf file can be or not be is not something we can do. To be effective we would need the original document and the devices used to create the pdf (scanner, computer, software, etc.) even then everything is subject to interpretation.

Best to either believe it is really a copy of the birth certificate or otherwise.

Perhaps you misunderstood my reference to mccarthyism which is basically accusations without any proof. Trump has no proof that Obama was not born in the US but continues to make accusations. Nothing political on my part about that. I believe all politicians, corporate CEOs, and lawyers are guilty until proven innocent. ;)

EDIT: BTW when I worked in DC I was a technical advisor to several government agencies.

Trump was taken out of context, blamed for being asked a question that was originally questioned by a Democrat in Philly,

then after he looked into it found out the Pres was hiding documents of his past and even spent millions to block any effort many are trying to make when it comes to his eligibility, to the point now that anyone that has any questions are labeled dumb or racist,

then lied about 2 weeks ago saying the top news was his b. c., which in fact it was was really about Ryan's Plan,

releases these pdfs today because it's silly to continue this.

Why release a pdf along with a second pdf from the same hospital and one turns out to be totally image and the other a flimsy work that if it were a scanned image of text, like the communications is the result would be a JPEG only right? unless the artist didn't use Xara Designer Pro 6 to see that both were different!

give me a break here, really look through the file i sent in post #14 has the 2 pdf from the white house.


BTW i must admit i did work for Donald in New york, i was a professional carpet installer, and did donate to Bill back in the day.
I honestly did not see your EDIT, funny how i included mine just as you did yours.

anyway the picture posted here is that of twins born on the 5th of august 2:12 and 2:17 p.m.

Hello

Until Obama produced the Birth Certificate, the burden of proof was on him. Once he has presented it, then the burden of proof shifts. PROVE that it's not authentic.

Reading a grand conspiracy theory out of the details of the layout of some pdf file is creative. There are certainly more than 10 times as many conspiracy theories as there are conspiracies.

Since one can't PROVE that he wasn't born here by dissecting a pdf file, one will have to PROVE that he was born somewhere else. That seems like a real challenge.

Though this pdf "stuff" is INTERESTING, I wouldn't call it REVEALING.

I do find it interesting that you mentioned laying carpet for The Donald and now, witnessing you trying to pull the rug out from under the President. Seems comedic to me.

Peace

James

Bill is right

There is no way anyone can verify the authenticity of any document without actually having said document - all the rest is flak - I've done a fair bit of authenticating myself, unless there is something so clumsy it is obvious, you are boxing with shadows unless you have the original

He's also right about an agenda [sorry about the banning though - that was not in order and my error]

BTW Most US citizens, I am told, are much more concerned about the price of gasoline - even those who think they know what 'natural born citizen' actually means...

It's kind of an ironic issue. A nation composed of people from other nations insists that presidents must be born in the country. It could be argued that by that principle the USA should have presidents from the indigenous people - North American Indians. You can also have senators from Austria and presidents that struggle even to speak (let alone think), but here we are discussing a bit of paper (err.. not even the paper - a PDF) that says where a rather eloquent president was born.

It's a strange world. I'm not sure that some "politicians" belong to it, given what they think is a good looking hairstyle.

Wow, what a thread.

Now, back to Arnie's birth certificate......:D

As a Canadian with no um... political agenda in the States...

I think its cool that people are willing to see if documents of all kinds are genuine and not taken at face value.
I haven't looked at this pdf in depth, but...
Keeping in mind that the WH has scanned and inserted a false backdrop, so it has been "altered" but still can be obviously genuine.
I'd compare "compression" patterned between all of the "pieces" besides the backdrop one, that is if I was looking for anything that would state that the article was a collage of cut/paste. As it looks to be a low rez scan, which doesn't help, but that would be the only thing that would show any tampering.... but you never know if parts were enhanced on purpose to make faded type more vivid. So... either way it would be hard to say fake or real.

Also this is "Certificate of Live Birth"? is that the same as a "Birth Certificate"?? I'm not familiar with US Hospitals and certificates, I have my own German "Birth Certificate" so I'm only familiar with that... (Yeah I got a Canadian version of a "Green-card" as a landed-immigrant with both Canadian born parents, lol)

This is not spam, so much as it opens up an interesting discussion on the mysteries of PDFs, Postscript, etc. I didn't know that PDFs had layers -- I've just made them, used them ... never looked into them. Are there any Postscript experts on this forum?

Re my President -- I am convinced, and perhaps all might agree, that he came as an infant from the planet Krypton, according to an old American legend. Made the attached in Xara to show you skeptics!

There was some document released by the UK government (think it was UK) with a PDF, with some bits redacted for privacy. But they were just objects over the text - so someone just removed them. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AntonyF

There was some document released by the UK government (think it was UK) with a PDF, with some bits redacted for privacy. But they were just objects over the text - so someone just removed them. :D

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Oh... burnz!!! The government sometimes I really wonder... lol.