Getting Xara into Illustrator (the agony of it all)

Okay, I've avoided buying illustrator for quite sometime now, but I've broken down and gotten because of a client....

Now the problem is, how do I export from Xara, text, bitmaps, and shapes filled with bitmaps into illustrator without converting everything to curves?

I have Freehand 10, Corel 10 and Illustrator 9. The final file has to be illustrator 9. Illustrator 9 cannot parse illustrator files from Xara.

I despise illustrator. But if someone can tell me a sequence like Xara EPS > Corel 10 > Illustrator, I would be most appreciative.

Sheff
sheff@sheff.com
www.sheff.com

Okay, I've avoided buying illustrator for quite sometime now, but I've broken down and gotten because of a client....

Now the problem is, how do I export from Xara, text, bitmaps, and shapes filled with bitmaps into illustrator without converting everything to curves?

I have Freehand 10, Corel 10 and Illustrator 9. The final file has to be illustrator 9. Illustrator 9 cannot parse illustrator files from Xara.

I despise illustrator. But if someone can tell me a sequence like Xara EPS > Corel 10 > Illustrator, I would be most appreciative.

Sheff
sheff@sheff.com
www.sheff.com

Sheffield,

I don't own I9 (though I'd love to get it one of these days - maybe buy your copy a discount? ;-)), but I've had considerable luck with getting AI/EPS files from XaraX into Expression 2, and from that out to AI/EPS and into Photoshop 6.

Bloody circumlocutionary, yes - but maybe it's a tip which could help you somewhat?


K

Cool! I'll try that. I forgot that I had
Expression 2.

I'll let you know how it turns out.

Did you export as Xara eps, illustrator eps, or illustrator.ai?

Sheff
sheff@sheff.com
www.sheff.com

What are your settings? Expression seems to choke on anything Xara specific.

Sheff
sheff@sheff.com
www.sheff.com

There aren't any "special settings" for the AI export, really. But this only works well with basic vector shapes like logos, etc. - if you add transparency and other complex tricks, the AI format can't handle that. XX's EPS export (bitmapped stuff) is now fairly good, as PS 6 and InDesign will open even very complex EPS files from XX - but E2 can't handle that kind of complexity.


K

Shef

You have to understand the limitations of Illustrator, which compared to Xara are numerous.

Most of Xara's best moves are not supported by Illustrator. Bitmaps are, bitmaps with anything other than flat transparency probably are not.

Illustrator can mask objects, but not in the same method used by Xara. Text is always best to convert to editable shapes first.

I would suggest exporting the elements in a fairly basic configuration, for example the bitmap and the clipping path as separate objects. The reassemble the objects in Illustrator.

Illustrator 9 has made a giant leap from version 8, but it still has a long way to go before it is up to Xara's capabilities.

I have had pretty good luck bringing Xara EPS files into Photoshop 5.5. Maybe you could try that for your clipped bitmaps and then place them in Illustrator.

Gary

Gary Priester

Moderator Person

<a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~garypriester">
me hoe ebb rivulets</a>

Funny title, Gary! :-)

I agree with you re I9 & procedures.


K

Good luck Sheffield Abella. I tried to create an .ai file and import it into Photoshop with no luck. I got the same parser errors. If your image has to be in Illustrator it may have to be created there in the first place.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I tried to create an .ai file and import it into Photoshop with no luck. I got the same parser errors. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which is why I export as a Xara EPS and then parse the file in Photoshop. Works fine for me.

If the image is not going to be opened or placed in Illustrator, I should think you would not export it as an Illustrator file.

Gary

Gary Priester

Moderator Person

<a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~garypriester">
me hoe ebb rivulets</a>

Gary,

If the option to export to .ai exists, then it should work.

If Xara is creating complicated graphics that will not work when exported to Illustrator .ai files, then the program should either:

1.) Tell you how to make your drawing export correctly.
2.) Export your drawing correctly.
3.) Not allow the export to .ai option.

We shouldn't have to use .eps files.

I've avoided buying illustrator for almost 8 years now. And it's for reasons just like this.

I'm not happy at all. Yes I agree that the illustrator option SHOULD work, but it is not the fault of Xara that it doesn't. Freehand doesn't support illustrator above version 7 either.

Begin Rant

In my opinion, Xara is the betamax of vector programs, superior, but not popular. I think that the Xara plugin was far superior to the early flash plugin, but that was when corel was sitting on them, so now the Xara plugin is dead. Gee, thanks Corel.

Unfortunately, illustrator has a strangle hold on many designers either because it's the first program they learned or it's all they know.

For the web, nothing beats Xara. But as many of us here can attest, we deal with these printing hassles all the time. How many times must we be told that the service bureau can ONLY accept Illustrator files created on a Macintosh on a Mac formatted disc?

I find it very dishearting that my most productive tool of choice is the red headed step child of vector programs. It's funny how back in the 80's Ridley Scott made that commercial of the girl throwing the hammer at Big Brother on the screen during the SuperBowl only for us to come to this and Apple and Adobe are now Big Brother(this analogy is intended to pertain only to design issues, not MicroSoft, but that's another topic).

My fellow Xara users, our eyes are open to the possibilites. Xara needs to include multipage PDF export, which will render this whole "how do I get it into illustrator" nightmare moot. I don't know what that entails but it will free me from this hellish nightmare that I hate every time it comes up. Fortunately, it's only a couple times a year. Either that or release a patch that does a more current export version of illustrator, or create a plugin for illustrator that reads native Xara files. Personally, I bet the latter would be easier, but then again, I've never written a plugin. I don't think Xara can continue to sit comfortable with it's position of strictly being a web graphic producing program. At some point all of us designers need to do print jobs. I can't convince the service bureaus I use to switch to a PC and buy Xara.

Until then, I will continue to be a proponent of Xara. But personally, I would like to know what Xara intends to do with future versions. I would like to know if I am being forced to become an expert at Illustrator, a program that I hate to use, or will Xara come to my rescue someday with PDF's and animated Flash.

End Rant

You know what is the best? Turning a client on to Xara. I've done that with one of my clients and they love Xara, but they're all about creating the best software, not following along with the unenlightened masses. BTW, this client that accepts my Xara files is also a software manufacturer that produces some fantastic software packages that get stuff done with quality and speed at a fair price. Check them out Impulse, Inc.

I now deliver them native Xara files. Now if only I can do that with all my clients.....

Sheffield Abella
sheff@sheff.com
www.sheff.com

Hi Sheff,
Perhaps I don't get it? If you want PDF files, just use the PDF writer or, if you like twiddling lots of things, use distiller. I've been doing this for years because it seems to be the only way the service bureaus won't give you grief.

Another possibility is to print to file using a postscript driver. Then you have pure postscript.

Either way you can get your work PRINTED, which "should be" the desired result. Getting into ai format so some jackass can look at it before "printing" to PDF is a waste of everyone's time.

I dig your rant. This crap drove me crazy until I gave up and started using PDF. I don't even LIKE PDF, I just got tired of fighting.

Regards,,,,, Tad.

Buying a copy of Xara for our printing company. They did have a PC which they used CorelDraw on but sending CMX files lost too much.

Christine

Sheffield Abella, it is Xara's fault. If the option is in there it should work.

I can understand everyone's enthusiasm for Xara, but remember this, software doesn't get better if you give the developer a pass (see MICROSOFT).

[QUOTE] We shouldn't have to use .eps files. /QUOTE]

To which I ask, why not?

If a PS file, as Tad wisely suggested, will get the job done, or an EPS file, which is the common format for placing a vector and/or vector and bitmap image into Quark, InDesign, PageMaker, etc., for professional output, why rely on the limitations of Illustrator?

I agree, it would be terrific if every application could share files and include their every native details with one another. But the likelihood of that happening is twofold: slim and none.

Shef pointed out correctly, that Illustrator's popularity is based not upon it's killer features, but on the fact that most professional illustrators, designers, and art directors learned on it. An unlike us more enlightened Xara users, who are attracted to features and ease-of-use vs. the safe industry standard, design professionals rarely read the manuals, participate in on-line forums, or read software trade magazines. Illustrator is a tool and they use it to get their job done. If Illustrator cannot do what they need, they don't need it. Or they hire a wrist to do it for them. The thing that scares them the most is having to invest the time and energy to learn a new software application.

A PS printer file is probably the most bulletproof way to get a job professionally output, because it is not dependent upon Quark, InDesign, Illustrator, or any other piece of software to interpret what is in the file. It is an effecient and intelligent way of printing directrly from Xara (or any other vector application) to the output device.

Gary

Gary Priester

Moderator Person

<a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~garypriester">
me hoe ebb rivulets</a>

The option to export to Illustrator .ai files is there.

It should work.

Xara should either rip it out or fix it, so us unenlightened folks can share our files with other programs.

Gary - Am I correct in thinking that most digital printers will give you (or allow you to download) the drivers to their printers? Around here they do, along with tip sheets to help you output a printerfile that hopefully gets you the quality output you want.

Regards, Ross

<a href=http://www.designstop.com/>DesignStop.Com</a>

rgremill - I think you are missing the point of how export filters work. The .ai export works so long as you don't expect it to bring to ai capabilities not supported in ai. The .ai export in Xara puts out only what ai is capable of using from the Xara original. It cannot make ai any more capable than it is.

Your agrument seems to be akin to saying Word's save as .txt shouldn't loose all the formating that was in the original Word document when you open the .txt in Notepad.

Regards, Ross

<a href=http://www.designstop.com/>DesignStop.Com</a>

Ross, you do not get the point.

Xara is creating .ai files that cannot be read into Photoshop without parser errors.

I challenge you to take the attached file and create .ai file that is importable into Photoshop 5.5. (Don't worry about the fonts...)

If you can get this to work you will be my hero!

I tried exporting the jsam logo xar file as a xara EPS and it went right into Photoshop 5 perfectly. Unless I am missing something I think this should work for you OK.

Stan

Sorry, the resulting file must be .ai.

Robert

Why do you need to bring the image into Photoshop?

I'm just curious what you want to do to the image that requires Photoshop, not being my usual cantankerous self :-)

And did you try exporting the image as a TIFF file? Since Photoshop is a bitmap editing application, bringing your logo (it turned out very nice, by the way)why not export it as a bitmap?

I tried fiddling with your image, converting your white outlines to shape, subtracting the shapes from the jury box, and deleting the extra shapes. But I had no luck getting the image into Photoshop 5.5 in either AI or Illustrator EPS formats. I had some trouble with Xara's EPS Automatic setting but it imported OK in PostScript 1 and PostScript 2 options. But for reasons only known to the Xara development team, it came in in black and white on a transparent background.

I was however, able to open it in Illustrator 9.0 without a problem. And as it is an Illustrator export filter, and not a Photoshop PSD export filter, I would say the filter did what it is supposed to do. And of course from Illustrator, I was able to bring the AI file into Photoshop.

Gary

Gary Priester

Moderator Person

<A HREF="http://home.earthlink.net/~garypriester" TARGET=_blank>
burl me to beehives</A>

Photoshop 6 cannot import a .ai clipping path that it itself created. It will import a .ai made by Illustrator. Xarax cannot open a genuine Illustrator.ai

Xarax cannot import this clipping path, but Xara 1.5 did, even though it needed to be given a stroke. I sent some Xarax eps and .ai files to Chris Cox of Adobe. He told me that Xara files were barely legal. Adobe applications seem to accept only the most narrow of interpretations.

Xarax opens something(try tab) and see where this group is
-20.32.-20.32
The most successful import is as Corel.eps and give the object a stroke, but only for the clipping path.

Xarax.eps is the best export. This is still slightly offset when imported /placed in Photoshop. There was another fault in Photoshop 6 which was corrected mysteriously in 6.01.
They never admitted anything.

Anything with transparency is a problem, when imported.

If anyone wants to waste a few hours working out what happens I am posting a zip which contains a true I9 circle and square as well as a Photoshop clipping path.

Good luck

I think rgremill is trying to say why have an ai export at all if Illustrator can't handle Xara's
advanced features. Leave the eps export and get rid of the ai... or even better leave the ai but have a popup that explains Illustrator's limitations when handling Xara's advanced features.

Does anyone use the ai export?

Mickie

Thanks for looking at it Gary. Unfortunately, I do not own Illustrator, so I can't go from Xara to AI to Photoshop.

I do use tiff files as you suggested.

Is probably quite usual in this GFX business. I really think every graphic package should have A LOT MORE DETAILED troubleshooting guide for export/import but it seems the authors of software are embarassed of the fact that this feature is not perfect. By the way, this tragicomical example of false advertising is taken from Illustrator 9 OPEN FILE dialog. (fact is that AI can not open CDR8 files and probably not even cdr7)

I don't have Acrobat. Is it worth getting? Does it play well with Xara? How much do I lose?

Postscript files. How do I create them? Do I just do the Xara X export then chose a postscript level and that's it? I know it works when you export Postscript 1 and bring that into photoshop.

I've tried installing the postscript driver that comes with Illustrator, but I'm running 2000 and it only works with NT.

Still looking for answers...

Sheffield Abella
sheff@sheff.com
www.sheff.com

Sheff,

I have Acrobat 4 and love it - immensely useful! I'll spring for the upgrade to 5 pretty soon.

Creating a PS file means to pick any suitable printer driver for high-res output (Linotronic and other image-setters) and, when printing, just directing it to FILE instead of to LPT. That creates an usually huge PS file, which can then be downloaded to an image setter for separations.

There's more to it, but that's the essence.

K

I may need to eventually buy Acrobat since illustrator has turned out to be such a piece of sh*t.

Check out this last message. I'm trying place a photoshop file in illustrator. I'm so tired of giving Adobe my money.

The hell of it all....

Sheffield Abella
sheff@sheff.com
www.sheff.com

[This message was edited by Sheffield Abella on August 20, 2001 at 19:13.]

Say Klaus,
What new features in Acrobat5 do you consider worth the upgrade? I too am thinking of upgrading, but ver4 seems to be pretty stable.

Sheff,
Having Acrobat is just part of being in the business. Costs $$, we wish it was free, but at least now we can get things done. The irony for me is that my service bureau "extracts" an eps file from the pdf I give them. However, should I give them any type of eps file myself, things always go wrong.
Now, if you do get Acrobat, beware of Distiller and start out using the PDF Writer. Distiller can do most anything, but has been known to drive perfectly good designers to the verge of madness.
And you need to relax about Illustrator. Of course it doesn't work. NOTHING works! Xara crashes on me all the time. You just have to roll with things. You really want trouble, get on deadline. Then your HARDWARE starts to go.
Hang in there, guy. It will all be over in about a hundred years.

Rgds,,,,,,,,,,,,Tad...

Everyone please forgive my ranting, but I am on a deadline. Illustrator has been giving me a major headache. I have been given a bunch of files that are all outlines instead of text and images with content that has been flattenend and are uneditable.

With Xara, given the text and pictures, I could have had this job done in an expedient manner, inspite of Xara crashes that occur, because I do push it to the limit. With regards to the job, I'm done with it. Just getting it into a format that my client can open/edit is the problem. Then getting it to the service bureau is the next hassle.

It would have been far cheaper for me to buy Xara for my client and service bureau than to have bought Illustrator just to open illustrator files.
I realize that I will have to buy something reliable to create PDF's. I personally prefer to create PDF's using Freehand. I'm more familiar and more comfortable with it and I can cut and paste back and forth between Freehand and Xara. So that isn't a problem.

But if Acrobat is the only way to create a PDF directly from Xara it looks as if I have no other choice. Having to do this job with Illustrator and Photoshop is a pain.

What is annoying is that when all is said and done, I will have spent more time and money on software than I'm being paid for this job.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Sheffield Abella
sheff@sheff.com
www.sheff.com

[This message was edited by Sheffield Abella on August 21, 2001 at 16:36.]

Tad and Klaus

Can you give me an example of when you would use distiller as opposed to PDF writer. I'm finding distiller really confusing and don't really know why I should try it...Acrobat's help files are in my opinion the worst I've come across in awhile.

Mickie

There are a number of software solutions to creating PDF files from XARA (or any other application) via the printer interface.

The one mentioned above is Adobe's PDF writer and that has worked fine for me in other applications the few times I used it. It comes as part of several Adobe products.

Another option is pdfFactory from FinePrint Software. It's much less expensive and appears to be easier to use than the Adobe products. I don't own a copy (yet) but am a very happy customer and long-time user of FinePrint Software's flagship product FinePrint. FinePrint is a virtual printer driver that provides print-preview and allows you to print n-up to any printer. Another inportant feature here is that it allows you to print to bitmap graphic files such as tiff, thus providing another export function for Xara or other applications.

A third option is to use the wonderful publicly licenced and freely available Postscript rasterizer Ghostscript and it's associated free utilities GSView and Redmon. GSView is an essential GUI for Ghostview and Redmon is a port redirection monitor that lets Ghostscript capture Postscript printer driver output and thus create a virtual postcript or PDF file printer. Yes, Ghostscript creates PDF files as well as bitmap graphic files or printer code from postscript source.

Finally, a tip - if you want to try version 3 of Adobe's PDF writer, go to http://online.courier.ups.com/download/download.html and download the freely available electronic document courier software from UPS. It installs the adobe PDF writer and I discovered that it leaves it installed even if you un-install the courier software.... Not sure of the legal ramifications if you wanted to use the PDF writer installed that way for business, but at least it's a good way to check out the software!

Good luck with the PDF files!

- Pete

Sheff,
Hope you don't think I was making light of your situation. I was only trying to cheer you up a bit by pointing out that we are all in the same boat.
Sadly, lots of us have known since Dec 2000 that Illustrator9 has MAJOR problems. In fact, I think you can't use its EPS files in Photoshop at all (unless you upgrade to PS6). AND, I fear, things are only going to get worse.
PDF is probably not the answer for your use unless you go right to the printer. Peter's info on alternatives is excellent. Thanks Peter.

Mickie,
If phrases like "Device N colorspace is converted to alternative colorspace" are not clear to you, I say don't use Distiller. In fact you CAN'T use Distiller until the file is already in Postscript. Stick with PDF Writer and listen to what Peter has said.

Klaus,
I just read an article in Electronic Publishing re. Acro5:

http://ep.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=Articles&Su bsection=Display&ARTICLE_ID=112781

That mag really pushes PDF workflow, but as I read between the lines, Acro5 sounds bad not good. Would be interested in your take on the issue.

Regards to all,,,,,,,Tad .