Placing my request for the next version of Extreme

I understand that Xara is not a $1000 program but it is BAD BAD BAD that I have to export to Microsoft Paint (free) or Irfan (free) to do some of the most important things that I frequently do.

Here are some things that free programs have that Xara does not have, and should:

1. A working function to select the transparent "color" when saving a GIF. Xara appears to have one, but either I can't figure it out or it doesn't work, and I think it doesn't work. It certainly doesn't work as well as Irfan's, which I use frequently -- including in Xara jobs.

2. A working crop function like Irfan has. I use this more than anything. Even Paint's ability to bring the borders in, thus cropping the image, would be an improvement. But what Xara needs is a button that says "I want to draw a rectangle and crop everything outside of it."

3. An eraser like Paint has. I can't believe that there isn't a really good eraser in Xara. What, nobody ever has to erase anything?

Thank you for your kind attention. I will expect these improvements, thank you.

DW

2: Draw a shape [rectangle, circle, freehand, whatever] and position it over the image as required , select both, Arrange >> Combine Shapes >> Intersect Shapes :)

PS This is non-destructive if the image is a bitmap. The original image is in the bitmap gallery and you can use the fill tool to reposition the image within the shape.

Your item #1. You can select additional colours to be transparent in an exported gif file in the Export Dialog. See attached images.

The first image shows a simple collection of objects that are selected over a black rectangle and the Export dialog for .gif file type. The antialiasing for the shapes to black are so they can be used over a black background. In a normal export to .gif the black is automatically the 'transparent colour'. To add an additional colour select it in the palette shown in the export dialog and click the make selected color transparent button. You can do this one by one to add additonal colours.

The second image the the normal exported .gif.

The third is a .gif where 'yellow' was selected to also be transparent.


Your item #3. An eraser works with rasters (pixel matrix) they don't exist in Xtreme.

People that are familiar with raster editors are always asking for raster tools. Vectors are not an array (matix) if pixels so tools that work with pixels are not practical in a true (completely) vector application.

If you need to change something in a vector you simply edit it's nodes.

For those that want to muddy the issue by bringing up Illustrator or other apps that include an eraser, PLEASE DO NOT. Illy uses a raster matrix to provide that type of functionality. A resource hog that is not truely vector in nature and a waste of CPU cycles.

This is my personal thoughts on the subject and shows my frustration at those that either refuse to learn or comprehend vectors and how they function.

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Originally Posted by Doctor Why

2. A working crop function like Irfan has. I use this more than anything. Even Paint's ability to bring the borders in, thus cropping the image, would be an improvement. But what Xara needs is a button that says "I want to draw a rectangle and crop everything outside of it."

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Click on the camera icon ..... draw a rectangle to suit .... In version 5 it even auto crops when you release the mouse. It's non-destructive, i.e. it can be adjusted at any time, and even shows the "Rule of Thirds" Even irfanview isn't that easy.

Learn to use the tools before complaining about them.

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Originally Posted by Doctor Why

I understand that Xara is not a $1000 program but it is BAD BAD BAD that I have to export to Microsoft Paint (free) or Irfan (free) to do some of the most important things that I frequently do.

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I think you are mistaken, Xtreme (not 'Extreme' as you've written it) is not a pixel based editor (as has been said over and over again at Talkgraphics!) and therefore you should not assume (or demand) it has the tools that a bitmap editor has.

Xtreme does allow you to select a bitmap editor to shell out to, make bitmap related edits and returns the result to Xtreme. (This is how plugins work too).

CorelDRAW works like this by shelling you out to CorelPhotoPaint (via the Launcher)

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Originally Posted by Doctor Why

It certainly doesn't work as well as Irfan's, which I use frequently -- including in Xara jobs.

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Again, you are comparing apples to oranges.

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Originally Posted by Doctor Why

2. A working crop function like Irfan has. I use this more than anything. Even Paint's ability to bring the borders in, thus cropping the image, would be an improvement. But what Xara needs is a button that says "I want to draw a rectangle and crop everything outside of it."

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It does - read the manual.

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Originally Posted by Doctor Why

3. An eraser like Paint has. I can't believe that there isn't a really good eraser in Xara. What, nobody ever has to erase anything?

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It does, refer to Bill post and again, read the manual and learn how to remove unwanted areas when using a 'vector' illustration application.

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Originally Posted by Doctor Why

I will expect these improvements, thank you.

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And with time, attention and the free help provided by the generous members of Talkgraphics, we expect improvements from you as you learn ;)

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Originally Posted by Doctor Why

...it is BAD BAD BAD that I have to export to Microsoft Paint (free) or Irfan (free) to do some of the most important things that I frequently do.

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So, do you want us to export it to Irfan for you? :rolleyes:

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Here are some things that free programs have that Xara does not have, and should:

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Actually, there are many things that free programs have and Xtreme doesn't. For example, with VirtualDub you can edit movies and you can't do it with Xtreme.
But these things you mention here are all present in Xtreme.

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1. A working function to select the transparent "color" when saving a GIF. Xara appears to have one,

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Yes it has one and it works well.

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but either I can't figure it out or it doesn't work,

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It works well for me and many others so it's a first option - you can't figure it out.

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and I think it doesn't work.

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You are wrong.

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It certainly doesn't work as well as Irfan's,

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How can selection of color from palette work better or worse? It ether sets transparent colors or not. With Xtreme you can do it visually, picking colors from palette or directly from the image.

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2. A working crop function like Irfan has.

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I don't know how it is implemented in Irfan, but in Xtreme you have at least 3 different ways you can do this. All not destructive and much more flexible.

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Even Paint's ability to bring the borders in, thus cropping the image, would be an improvement.

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Perhaps reading help would help? You can crop image in the way similar to raster editors using Photo tool. You can cut parts of the bitmap with boolean operations. Finally you can use a clip view. How does it compares to Paint's functionality? :eek:

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But what Xara needs is a button that says "I want to draw a rectangle and crop everything outside of it."

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Actually it has two such buttons. One is called Intersect shapes (shortcut: Ctrl+3) and another one is Apply clipview (shortcut: Q).
With Xtreme5 you can also use masking feature.

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3. An eraser like Paint has.

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It has much more powerful tools to remove parts of the image. Actually all drawing tools may add or remove areas of the image in the same way.

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I can't believe that there isn't a really good eraser in Xara.

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As good as in Paint? The one that works without anti aliasing? No, we don't have such a "good" tool because... well, because we actually don't think it is good. :rolleyes:

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What, nobody ever has to erase anything?

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Most of us, everytime do this. There are a lot of ways to remove parts of image. Depending on what you want to remove, you can use the most appropriate approach. For example, draw shape over the area you want to erase and use Ctrl+2 to remove it.

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Thank you for your kind attention.

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You are welcome. :)

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I will expect these improvements,

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Don't expect - learn to use them! ;)

What truly amazes me is the arrogance and ignorance of the OP. Bad-mouthing the product without being aware of its capabilities is bad enough for its own sake, but to do so at the possible detriment of the product in the eyes of other potential new users borders on stupidity. Given that the program is available as a free trial download which means the user is not subject to cost or risk, there is plenty of time to evaluate before deciding to buy it or not.
It is patently obvious that dr. why has not read the help files in any detail, when simple features such as cropping with Xtreme remain a mystery, or indeed fully explored the tools and their functions.
Nor has dr. why spent any time finding out about the forum and its friendly and helpful members. dr. why is obviously not aware that this is a forum populated by users of Xara's products and not its software developers, by expecting us to make the perceived improvements, which if dr. why had taken the time and trouble to investigate, would have found out for him(her)self, including posting this thread in the correct forum for improvements to Xara's products.
Might I suggest that dr. why thinks long and hard about the original post and sees it for what it is, then makes an abject apology for the unfounded complaints. A period of self-flagellation is in order so that dr. why may return a contrite and more humble human being, better equipped to participate in the affairs here at talkgraphics.com. >:)
Bob.

I think the points have been covered well :)

However I will add this:

Illustrator has an eraser
Expression 3 [ CE ] has an eraser
Inkscape current release candidate 0.47 has an eraser
I am told, but cannot verify it that DrawPlus has an eraser

All the above are vector drawing programs and more or less cover the field with exception of Corel Draw, which I haven't used since version 8, and remember little about

There is more to a decent vector eraser tool than the raster angle of simply rubbing things out.. its all about speed and ease of use, and what suits you ;)

I say this only for information, I am not saying anyone is wrong...

EDIT - :o Duff info: MS Expession does not have eraser, but then MS Expression has a lot of stuff missing for freehand drawing that was in the CE version - the point still is about speed and ease of use in workflow... close to everyones heart I think :D

Steve,

DrawplusX3 has an erasertool
And a knifetool to cut out and make you select the part you want to keep or not
And a freeformtool that let's you add to the object.
And sorry Bill,it's not a cpu heavy tool
Hans

MS Expression has a Slice [knife tool] and Scissors too

It's lovely that these other packages have an eraser tool [so does Combustion, as well as a far more useful vector-based magic wand tool] but Illustrator is something like 3 times the price [still half the price of Combustion] and none of them are anywhere near a suseful as Xtreme overall [even Combustion], so how is it relevant?
Anyhoo, as to the original poster's little brain-snap, can someone tell me what you would use a GIF for in 2009, especially one with non-antialiased transparency? Has the man never heard of PNG? And in the context of what Xtreme is for and how it works, when would you need an eraser? Both issues seem related to things you might do if you have no idea what you are doing. He clearly has little idea how to elicit helpful responses on a forum, either.

not making comparisons - just making a case that they can suit a workflow in a given package - and they are more common than not, but we digress maybe

I belong to an image hosting site which will not accept anything other than gif/jpg ...... I understand this is common.

The problem with asking for an eraser is that it shows limited thought about how to accomplish a task in Xtreme or any graphic application.

An eraser is actually of little use in a bitmap editor, because you can simply replace anything by changing the pixel's attributes. It accomplishes the change in fewer steps. No erasing then applying new pixel attributes.

Pencil and paper and at least two types of eraser are good for traditional drawings.

Digital drawings are best accomplished without limiting your thinking as if you are using pencil and paper.

Drawing with ink doesn't respond well to use of an eraser, neither does digital drawing. :)

unless you use it as an artistic tool Bill ;)

So does drawing with the background colour and does exactly the same thing. Still no need for the eraser.

Here we go again... Steve, don't hijack the thread, it is not about vector eraser, it's about: "An eraser like Paint has." among other things. ;)

I replied to Bill saying an eraser is unecessary [in so many words] because I don't believe that

But yes we have strayed [not the same as hijacking I might add ] so I will say no more

Yes, indeed. :D
Let's see the OP's responce. It's more than a page of answers on his single message already. :)

P.S. I hate these new smileys... :(

I tire of these 'critiques' based on incomplete knowledge and understanding. There's very little that can't be done in Xtreme. Work with it. If dr why finds it inadequate then he should just forget it; use some other tool; or—RTFM before posting.

Well, apparently there are things that I may have not figured out here, but I'm fascinated by the amount of invective contained in the above posts.

Silly me, I thought that features in simple programs were attainable in more sophisticated programs.

As if I never read the help files or tried to learn this application.

This forum seems to be more about abuse than assistance, and although I could say that I am making earnest attempts to learn this stuff, I am asking for things that I know about and if it's covered by things that I don't know about, perhaps we could explore that path.

Taking an image to Paint to erase a couple of screwheads worked great. What is the analog in Xara?

Neodeist's first reply seems like something I could use, if not intuitive ("crop" doesn't yield very much in a search of the help file). I certainly didn't see anything like that in the manual.

Soquili's mention of selecting colors in the export dialog didn't work when I did it. I expected it to work like it does in Corel, but it only removed random sections of the chosen field. Perhaps the selection process in Xara is too sensitive, and it was excluding gradations that Corel would have tolerated?

As for SS-kalm's kind explanation, that worked for the photo part of the item but not the fields attached to it, which is what I was aiming for. Irfan would have just done the crop.

In any case, I'm too old to be disturbed by a display of crowd hysteria as displayed here. I'm asking questions because whatever I wanted to look up wasn't in the instructions, or wasn't indexed so I could find it, and the things that I did try didn't work. I thought that certain features were attainable, if the authors just decided to put them in. Like a button to let us erase. Or a button to let us crop. Aren't these normal things for a normal person to want?

If there's a jerk here, I don't think it's me.

DW

PS There don't appear to be any actual smiles in the Smileys, does there?

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Originally Posted by Doctor Why

This forum seems to be more about abuse than assistance

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Excuse me???

Dr. Why,

First off, welcome to the TalkGraphics forum. We are usually a friendly and supportive bunch here, but, as you've no doubt guessed by now, you've struck a nerve.

In order to receive more helpful advice and less jeers from the peanut gallery I would offer the following suggestions:

• As a new user please refrain from starting threads and posting numerous messages asking for new tools and complaining that Xara Xtreme doesn't work like X, Y, and Z programs. Xtreme works like Xtreme for the most part, and most users who take the time to learn it, like it.
• Xara Xteme is fundamentally a vector application and not a raster/bitmap program. Yes, it can do some things that raster applications can but not the usual pixel manipulation operations that come easy to MS Paint, IrFanView, et al.
• If you can temporarily forget about the other applications you're used to and figure out how Xtreme functions function, I'm betting that you will like it.
• Instead of requesting additional tools, and such, why not post what you're trying to accomplish in Xtreme, how you've gone about it, and what's not working for you. You will, no doubt, receive a flurry of positive responses to help you with your current challenge. If what you're trying to do can't be done using Xtreme, or can be done easier using another application, you'll be offered suggestions in that regard as well.
• Stating how you accomplished a task in another application and questioning how you would go about achieving the same or similar result using Xtreme will usually result in people rushing to your aid.
• If possible, providing an image as an attachment, or attaching the XAR file you're working on will quickly show us that you've a least tried and the point you've reached, so far. It can speed up your response time, the quantity and quality of the response and, generally, better help TG members help you.

Again, a warm welcome to TalkGraphics! Now, what can we do to help you learn and use Xara Xtreme and/or Xara's other software applications?

Best regards,
Harry

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Originally Posted by Doctor Why

Silly me, I thought that features in simple programs were attainable in more sophisticated programs.

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Silly indeed.:D
Many features from simple programs are useless in more sophisticated programs because they have more general, flexible and powerful tools to do the same thing. Think about it: does you car have pedals similar to your bicycle?

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As if I never read the help files or tried to learn this application.

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If you have problems understanding help, you may ask for help here. And a lot of people will be happy to help. But you didn't. Did you?

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This forum seems to be more about abuse than assistance,

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Obviously you are as familiar with this forum as you are with Xtreme. ;)

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I am asking for things that I know about and if it's covered by things that I don't know about, perhaps we could explore that path.

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Perhaps you could ask if this things are present before stating that they are not? If you don't know something it doesn't necessary mean that it's not there.

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Taking an image to Paint to erase a couple of screwheads worked great. What is the analog in Xara?

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Perhaps you should post this question before explicitly stating that this is missing in Xtreme? There are many ways to do something like this. For example you can cut holes in the image with Ctrl+2, or you can put another object with appropriate color/fill on top of the screw heads.
Although, if MS Paint's eraser worked great for removing screw heads on the photo (I assume), then you are particularly lucky person! Why would you need any other graphics software if MS Paint quality is great for you?

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Soquili's mention of selecting colors in the export dialog didn't work when I did it. I expected it to work like it does in Corel, but it only removed random sections of the chosen field. Perhaps the selection process in Xara is too sensitive, and it was excluding gradations that Corel would have tolerated?

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Silly you. :D If it removed only random sections, then the area you want to make transparent was not solid color. It had multiple colors. In GIF you can set any colors from palette as transparent. So if you have a not solid color area you have to make all colors that fill it transparent. Instead of looking for them in palette you can use an eyedropper and pick the color from the image preview.
But the correct solution would be to create image with a solid color on the transparent area in the first place. Just like you did in Corel.

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As for SS-kalm's kind explanation, that worked for the photo part of the item but not the fields attached to it, which is what I was aiming for. Irfan would have just done the crop.

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What is: "fields attached"? Does Irfan work with "fields attached"? You were talking about bitmap crop as in Irfan or MS Paint, so the advice was for bitmaps. If you want to crop vectors there are other methods, also mentioned by the way. You just have to make clear what do you want, there are no mind readers on this forum.

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In any case, I'm too old to be disturbed by a display of crowd hysteria as displayed here.

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But you feel young enough to display your hysteria here? ;)

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I'm asking questions

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Please don't lie! Read your first post in this thread - there's not a single question (except for: "What, nobody ever has to erase anything?"). There is a list of false statements and requests. Not a single question. And you were not asking for help. Read it!

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because whatever I wanted to look up wasn't in the instructions, or wasn't indexed so I could find it, and the things that I did try didn't work.

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So wouldn't it be wiser to say something like this: "I have problems. This and that doesn't seem to work for me. Please help me to do this and that.". Does it look like your original post?

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Aren't these normal things for a normal person to want?

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What is normal person and normal things? If you want to drive a car you have to learn it. Complains that it can't be used the way you use your bicycle are stupid. Complaining that Xtreme doesn't work the way MS Paint does is just the same.

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If there's a jerk here, I don't think it's me.

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Shall we vote? >:)

Hi Dr.
I’ve followed this thread without sticking my oar in as its obvious that its one where you have made up your mind about the inadequacies of XaraXtreme when compared to the alternatives you have to hand and no amount of defending it by the regulars here will change your mind, particularly now as you feel you have been picked on.
Normally, as has already been said, if a new member comes along with a question or problem there will be an avalanche of answers in a fairly short time often demonstrating numerous ways in which you can achieve your goal, each way as good as the other. That is the way to go about it then, to ask a question or demonstrate a problem.
You have only to look at the work produced in Xtreme and posted here and in various other places (XaraXone for one) to realise that most people find a way to do most things as and when necessary.
I’ve attached an example, produced in Xtreme of ‘erasing’ a mushroom growing on wood (chipboard) rather than a screw head. I’ll show you how to do it if you want, no trouble at all, if that’s what you are looking for.
Erasers in this sort of an example are of little use it it would simple leave a hole where the mushroom used to be. In a bitmap editor you would select an area of wood from elesewhere mask and copy it and then past it over the offending object and blend it in, which is more or less what I've done here. What you are not able to do in Xtreme is use a clone tool to select pixels from elsewhere and paint over the mushroom with them to remove it, I suspect thats what you were looking for in reality. If I'm wrong I apologise
Similarly a bit of cropping in the leafy example demonstating that there is a crop tool, and a very effective one in Xtreme, though there are other ways of achieving the same result.
Derek
PS. Complaining about the lack of an eraser in Xtreme didn’t really make that much sense. Had you taken your bitmap with the screw head into the supplied bitmap editor, Magix Designer7 (if its still called that, I haven't been able to bring myself to look) and complained about the lack of an eraser then that would have had me on your side right away.
Derek (again)

Very good Derek, thanks for posting your examples.
I actually prefer Xtreme for similar jobs myself.

DrWhy, there's always Xhris with his large collection of Xara Xtreme Video Tutorials to view.
In particular Photo retouching or healing using Xara Xtreme which would deal with removing screwheads in a similar way.

Rather than close this thread, I will move out of the Dear Xara.. forum because it no longer fits the purpose of 'Dear Xara..'

Covoxer, I imagine being a developer and supporter of this forum would be enough work and would take alot of your time. Your patience and the ability to write clear instructions just show how professional and respectful you are, even with complicated or arrogant users. Kudos to you.

DrWhy, the help you received here would guide you to all and much more you asked for.

Hi DW. When I saw your original post, I thought to myself, "Hello, we have a troll in our midst". Having read your second missive, I see nothing to disabuse myself of my original thought.
If you can convince the membership here that you are indeed a true seeker of wisdom, you will find many here who take a deal of pleasure in generously offering their knowledge, as a brief look around the forum would reveal.
On present form however, you will need to rethink your idea about who is the jerk and who aren't.
Saludos,
Bob.

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Originally Posted by sledger

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I actually prefer Xtreme for similar jobs myself.
'Dear Xara..'

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So do I. In fact all supported file types are defaulted to open in Xara as my first port of call when I'm doing anything. From there I can go to Photoshop (elements7; my full version is so old elements is better featured) where I can do whats needed that Xtreme, on rare occasions, can't.


As an aside, I personally think the recriminations should now stop and pause to see if help is requested, rather than bandy further criticisms of the original post or else it could go on forever.
Derek

Yes it could.

When I made my original post I thought I was making reasonable requests, although I certainly was being a little provocative.

The hysteria that ensued is nothing short of amazing.

I can't tell hysterical people not to be hysterical -- they're hysterical. All I can say is that knowing what I knew I thought I was on the right track. If not, well, just tell me.

Here's something I can share with you: I'm on a lot of forums and the reactions here on this one are not real normal. But if you guys are sensitive artistes, I can work with that.

Thanks to those of you who did try to help.

DW

HT,

I tried to send you a pm but apparently I'm not yet of legal age.

I just want to thank you personally for the kind message. Obviously I speak a different language than some of the people here, and there's going to be an acclimation process.

Best Wishes

DW

You are most welcome, Dr. Why. We really are a friendly and helpful bunch here at TG.

If you've got an image you've created and would like to show it off we'd be more than happy to take a look. It doesn't even have to be a finished drawing, a WIP is more than acceptable. If you want to post or see what others are currently working on why not check out the Stop & Post August 2009 thread.

Cheers,
HayTay

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Originally Posted by Doctor Why

I'm fascinated by the amount of invective contained in the above posts.

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If you re-read your original post, you'll see that it set the tone for most of the responses.

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Silly me, I thought that features in simple programs were attainable in more sophisticated programs.

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It's about like features for like applications. e.g. You don't expect Word to allow you to model 3D characters, because it's not a 3D animation package. Similarly, Xara is a vector drawing application, so you don't expect features from a pixel pusher like Paint.

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This forum seems to be more about abuse than assistance, and although I could say that I am making earnest attempts to learn this stuff, I am asking for things that I know about and if it's covered by things that I don't know about, perhaps we could explore that path.

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Then perhaps you should have asked for explanations, instead of posting inflammatory declarations like "I can't believe that there isn't a really good eraser in Xara. What, nobody ever has to erase anything?" and my favourite, "I will expect these improvements".
Of course, the simple answer to the question in the first quote is "no", because with a vector drawing application like Xara, if you make a mistake you can fix it by moving vertices around or changing the properties of the stroke that is not right or by dozens of other methods. Combustion has had an eraser tool since v1.0 in 2000 and I can guarantee you 100% that I have never used it even once, because it's not relevant to vector drawing.

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Taking an image to Paint to erase a couple of screwheads worked great. What is the analog in Xara?

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See, isn't that a much better way to get help?

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Originally Posted by Doctor Why

Here's something I can share with you: I'm on a lot of forums and the reactions here on this one are not real normal.

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Pish-tosh! Every forum I have ever been a regular on will react in exactly the same way when someone comes in the way you did. This forum is actually much tamer than many others I spend time on regularly. Much tamer. I can only imagine you spend time on crochet and knitting forums, perhaps? Because on music or car forums, you get hammered way harder than that.

I do believe Doctor Why has got the message, further reactions are unnecessary.

Thread closed