Embedding Fonts in Xar Files Questions and Discussions

This isn't something I've seen much discussion about on these forums. Apparently V5 now embeds fonts used in documents automatically into the xar file. Specifically, it apparently embeds the character shapes of letters of a font used to ensure WYSIWYG and portability of xar documents.

I'm wondering whether this means that the actual characters of the used font are stored in the xar file, or whether some new vector recreation is created as a substitute. It would be interesting to see what happens when more of the same character is inserted on another machine without the font (adding characters not used is not supposed to work, so it's like the 'only embed characters in use' option in Word). This isn't easy for me to test. Does anyone have any weird fonts they can upload in a xar file here? I also wonder: if fonts are embedded, how is this allowed for fonts that aren't supposed to be embedded?

The advantage of only embedding fonts used is retaining exact readability and minimising file size. Embedding the full font would retain editability as well but at the cost of filesize (and maybe copyright issues).

That this feature has been introduced into Xara suggests they may be preparing to compete with PDF as a portable document format. We can only dream; if only Xara had a dedicated .xar reader (like they used to back in 1995)...

At least we now apparently don't need to check the document properties to see which fonts are missing for V5 files.

Here you go, some unusual fonts.
Saludos,
Bob.

This is what I see opening Bobs xar. 1st the warning re the fonts not being installed and the substitution message.

Without nowing what the fonts should look like it's difficult to tell.

I've added the "IJK" to the end of each line. It shows as text and not dingbats on the dingbat fonts.

On further examination it only seems to embed the fonts used in the xar.

So for example I can retype upper and lower case Align Twits from A through G but if I type HIJ I get a text font only. I can't tell if this is the case with the non dingbat fonts.

A workaround would be to have a full character set on the paste board.

Here's a file that uses Informal Roman. It has all upper and lower case characters. If you haven't got it installed try creating text in this font.

Damn, I have Informal Roman installed apparently. Interesting how you can type characters of fonts you don't have installed but which are already used in a document. I wonder if they are real parts of the font (and how copyright issues are bypassed), or if they are new vector substitutes which are mapped to the characters. It's a pretty nice feature anyway (and long overdue :) ).

EDIT: Actually, an interesting test would be to compare file sizes between text with an unusual font, and that same text converted to shapes and saved as a different file. I wonder if automatically embedding fonts (or some characters) increases file size much relative to version 4 files. Hmm, it does seem to actually for non-standard fonts; not majorly though in the cases I've just looked at.

I downloaded Bobs file.
I don't have any of the font's installed - Xara has substituted (badly), the dingbats show only an embedded subset (where the partial copy only includes only data for characters actually used in the document.) I cannot type other characters of the font.

Attachment 63309


Here's how Agenda-Bold (for example) appears in the opened .xar against how it should look if it were installed or embedded.

Attachment 63310

Egg's file displayed fine because I have Informal Roman installed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xhris

Interesting how you can type characters of fonts you don't have installed but which are already used in a document.

---

As far as I can tell, testing from Bob's file, I am typing only characters from the substituted font, not an embedded one.

Update:

After playing with Bob's file I closed the file (not Xtreme) it threw up an AV and then immediately showed another dialog about 'An extremely serious error...' for a second then exited completely. :(

I had a play with Bob's file and I got the warning about uninstalled fonts being substituted. When I opened it there were issues with spacing. the screenshot below shows Bob's file on my screen. I didn't get any of the errors that Steve did.

I also found in the help files this: Xtreme Pro stores the character shapes of all the fonts used in your document. This means if you give someone else your .web file, or transfer the file to another computer they will see exactly what you see

I have attached both a .web and a.xar file of some fonts for others to try and see if there is any difference. Also one of the fonts I know has a restricted license and should not be embeddable it will be interesting to see what happens with that one. I also included in my files the same fonts converted to shapes so you can see for sure what each one should look like.

Quote:

---

Xtreme Pro stores the character shapes of all the fonts used in your document.

---

This isn't quite correct. It appears to store all the used character shapes of a font but NOT the unused characters.

It appears to do what Flash does to embed a font in the way of embedding just those characters used (the Autofill option)

When I download Bob's I get exactly what Frances gets but cant do anything with it. When I type in Egg's text block I can fill in the text and get the same characters without Steve's errors. I this anything to do with web safe fonts or am I getting this wrong. It would be really good to know the definitive rules here of what we can and can not do and is it legal?

It strikes me that I ought to post a screenshot of how the fonts really should look.
Saludos,
Bob.

This is what I get Bob.

As you can see these are nothing like your originals (apart from the dingbat fonts which I don't have installed).

From the Help Files:

Quote:

---

Font embedding
Xara Xtreme Pro 5 stores the character shapes of all the fonts used in your document. This means if you give someone else your design file, or transfer the file to another computer, the text will still look exactly right, even if the correct fonts are not installed on that computer. But this only embeds the characters that are used in the document (the full font is not included). So on computers with the fonts missing, any text that is added in the missing fonts may be missing the correct character shapes.

---

Unless I'm missing something this isn't working as advertised. Maybe John can throw some light on the subject.

Not all fonts allow embedding. Xara will only embed a font if it does not forbid it.

I wonder then, how does Acrobat load PDFs when the font is not on a user's system, and it retain an as-designed look? Or does it now I come to think about it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xhris

I wonder then, how does Acrobat load PDFs when the font is not on a user's system, and it retain an as-designed look? Or does it now I come to think about it?

---

It has some very clever multiple master technology which synthesises a font to fit from a specification of the original.

Could this be what Xara V5 is doing also (or attempting to) I wonder?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xhris

Could this be what Xara V5 is doing also (or attempting to) I wonder?

---

If it is, then it's not making a very good job of it!

Actually Kieth when it has the fonts that are allowed to be embedded it works very well. I just think the warning window needs tweaking to inform the user what fonts have been embedded and what fonts have been substituted and the help files updated. Bill sent me a xar file were all the fonts embeded correctly. Possibly if he reads this he'll attach it here.

Here tis. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Egg Bramhill

.... I just think the warning window needs tweaking to inform the user what fonts have been embedded and what fonts have been substituted and the help files updated. .

---

Graham, this is FOR SURE. It would be the first step in setting things right.

Perhaps there should be a warning when you save similar to the warning you get when you export to pdf, that tells you what fonts didn't embed in your document and why. And if there was a setting somewhere to toggle this warning on and off so you you wouldn't have to see it everytime you save

Cheers Bill. I didn't want to attach your file without permission.

You're right Egg (Dare I say as usual) ... That works much better. The question is, why didn't Bob's example exhibit the same behaviour?

From what Bill has said not all fonts (or more correctly font manufacturers) allow their fonts to be embedded. So Bobs were a mixture of those that couldn't be embedded and therefore substituted and others like the alien dingbats that were allowed to be substituted.

Should then also the
Convert text into shapes checkbox be split into
Always & Only when embed fonts not permitted

edit

As soon as I clicked I realised it would not be that simple. You would need the option for each font if you knew the target had those fonts installed.