Difference Clouds duplicated in Xara Xtreme?

I'm still on my quest of learning how to duplicate certain Photoshop effects using Xara Xtreme. So far I've been more than pleased with the effects I've been able to achieve. Right now, though, I'm stumped on how to recreate 'Difference Clouds' raster effect using Xtreme with or without an Xtreme compatible filter or plug-in. You can see the effect I'm trying to achieve here: Filter>Render>Difference Clouds Example.

Fiddling with Fractal Clouds fills doesn't seem to have the same result. Also, I've been unsuccessful in my web and TG searches for a plug-in, and the plug-ins I have installed don't seem to be able to do the trick.

Any tips or suggestions for XX would be greatly appreciated,
HayTay

ULEAD free Partical Plug in might be useful.

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Eight natural particle effects for images and selections - smoke, fire, bubbles, clouds, rain and more.

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Also 2D HyperClouds is an old (but works in Xtreme) freeware plugin that produces 'Difference Clouds'

Hi HayTay,

Have you also played around by changing the fractal clouds fractal resolution and fractal graininess?

With the Fill Tool or the Transparency Tool selected and Fractal Clouds as the Fill/Transparency type set, right click on the shape. The Infobar will change to display the fractal resolution and graininess fields.

Soquili: Wow. Now that's hidden pretty well. Thanks for pointing that out, I've often had the problem that fractal resolution wasn't high enough.

Wow, thanks for the great response(s). I knew someone else must have had a go at this. I'm off to give each one a try and see if they're what I'm looking for.

I'll report back,
HayTay

I would normally start of with two fractal transparencies,one nearly white and the other grey and depending on the type of cloud if it has a lot of moisture in it stack the lighter transparency to the back and then blend the two transparencies together. If it is a white puffy cloud the grey to the back and white to the front. I was trying to look out an example but I am on the wrong computer will try later to show examples.

Soquili said: Have you also played around by changing the fractal clouds fractal resolution and fractal graininess?

Thanks for the RightClick tip, I had never noticed that before.

Hi HayTay:

Try looking at this posting: http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthre...ighlight=Cloud

I posted a Xara file there which you can download and experiment with.
Lots of tranparent overlays.

Regards, John

I think that before everyone gets off on the wrong track, I have a hunch that HayTay wants deference clouds not for sky effects but to use to generate textures in Photoshop (or should I say Xara )such as marble or lightning bolts etc.
In short the fluffy summer clouds are not what he wants or maybe it is. More info is needed from HayTay.

I have find longtime ago a tutorial for cloud creating with Xara. I dont remember wher find it but here is the picture.

They made really realistics clouds

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Originally Posted by RTW1

I think that before everyone gets off on the wrong track, I have a hunch that HayTay wants deference clouds not for sky effects but to use to generate textures in Photoshop (or should I say Xara )such as marble or lightning bolts etc.
In short the fluffy summer clouds are not what he wants or maybe it is. More info is needed from HayTay.

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RTW1,

You must be psychic! As you correctly guessed I do have an ulterior motive for wanting to generate usable 'difference clouds' within Xara Xtreme. You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned lightning bolts. While all of the aforementioned suggestions produce clouds of one type or another, none of them result in the type of difference cloud that can produce nifty lightning bolts or other electrical effects similar to those generated in Photoshop. They all seem to wash out to solid black, gray, or white when further adjusted in Xtreme.

Here's an example of the effect using the Difference Cloud Example link referenced in post #1. Except for the initial 'Difference Cloud' the result below was done entirely using XX4.

Steps:

1. Copy & paste the referenced Difference Cloud bitmap into Xara Xtreme
2. Live Effect Tool (Ctrl + F5) > New > Color Filter > Negative
3. Create Bitmap Copy (Ctrl + Shift + C)
4. Photo Tool (P) > Brightness Levels Dialog > Reduce the Gray Input Level to a value of around 0.11

TaaaDaaaa... Instant electrical charges, or marble veins, or whatever else you can think of to use the image for.

Sooo... I don't know what is different with the Difference Clouds produced from Photoshop when compared to the ones created within Xara Xtreme but there is definitely something that isn't the same. In the mean time, I'll continue to play with the settings on the cloud generators listed above. Now that everyone else knows what I'm up to feel free to beat me to the punch.

Thanks,
HayTay

I need the same as Hay Tay as these types of grayscales work wonderfully in Vue6I as bitmaps for terrain heights.

Neither of the plugins that Sledger listed works for me. Probably doing something wrong. I put the 8bf into my PSP plugin folder along with all the other plugin files that are working in Xara (I point Xara to this folder) but it doesn't show up. I can't figure how to get the Ulead one to work though it installed into a separate folder.

Also, here's a shot of what happens when I increase the resolution of my fractal clouds from 74dpi to 150dpi. If I grab it and increase the size, it just goes back to the original dpi. Any way around that?

Burpee,

The 2DHyperClouds filter shows up under a heading named 'Render' in the Live Effects Tool.

The Ulead Particle plug-in kept giving me some grief about not having some version of Photoshop installed but I kept clicking on buttons and whatever else it threw up and now it appears under 'Ulead Effects'. Don't ask me what I did for I probably couldn't duplicate it if I tried. I just blundered forward and persevered.

Both of the plug-ins work in Xara Xtreme Pro 4 just not in a way that I can produce Difference Clouds that I can use for lightning. At least, not yet.

I never thought of using the clouds as terrain height maps but I can see how they would produce spectacular results. I learned something, thanks.

Back to the clouds,
HayTay

Hey HayTay (I like that :)), Vue uses functions to create bumps, altitude, noise, etc. Lots of the tutorials I view show creating these maps in PS and then using the resulting image in the functions within Vue. I own PSPXI and it don't make these clouds effects.

I found the 2HDclouds under render in Xara...thanks. I did the same thing with Ulead....clicked until it accepted it. I can't find it in Xara though. Perhaps I have to restart it?

Burpee,

You're welcome.

Try creating one of the following folder trees:

C:\Program Files\Adobe\Photoshop 7.0\Plug-Ins

or

C:\Program Files\Adobe\Photoshop CS\Plug-Ins

and then reinstall the Ulead Particle plug-in. When the installer asks for the location of your Photoshop Plug-Ins folder ;) ;) direct it to whichever folder you created using one of the above paths. I don't think it really cares if you have Photoshop, or not, I just think it needs to 'look' in a location where it should be. At least that's my theory, and, like I said, it works on my XP Pro based PC. Note that there may be other Photoshop Plug-Ins folder locations that make the Ulead plug-in happy enough to work. Those two are just the first ones I found when I did a web search for where the Photoshop Plug-Ins folder should be located.

Good luck,
HayTay

The Ulead particle effect shows up in my plugins folder in XaraX under Ulead effects. I have had no trouble finding it or having it show up. Actually no trouble with it at all.

Thanks both. It was just a matter of closing XX4 and reopening it. Ulead was there. I had originally directed it to XX4 folder for installation and that appears to have worked.

For anyone else, I still need an answer to my fractal cloud resolution question. I can't figure how to increase the resolution without the fill decreasing in size.

Burpee,

Start with a shape twice the size that you need. Apply a Fractal Cloud fill that you're happy with. Now reduce the size of the shape by 50%. If your original shape was filled with a 75 ppi image the smaller shape should have twice the resolution, or 150 ppi. This is standard graphics stuff, reduce an image and you get a higher resolution, increase the size of a graphic and the resolution is immediately lowered. That is unless you manipulate the image in some other fashion.

I hope I explained that somewhat coherently.

IHTH,
HayTay

You explained fine. Thank you. I was just trying to use the 'right click/dpi' settings that were mentioned above. I thought the right click menu was pretty cool. Only it didn't work properly as it shrunk my fill until it looked like a small square, lol.

I can do it the way you suggest, but I consider that a 'work around'. Or, maybe I'm being picky?

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Originally Posted by sledger

Also 2D HyperClouds is an old (but works in Xtreme) freeware plugin that produces 'Difference Clouds'

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Ok, here's the result of several hours of playing around in Xara Xtreme with the 2D HyperClouds plug-in. Many thanks to Steve for the link. Everyone else's suggestions were tried and helped lead to this result, thanks to all. I'm still open to suggestions but am pleased with the Difference Clouds produced using 2D HyperClouds.

It turns out that the true key, besides having a plug-in that generates the Difference Clouds effect, is the initial image to which the effect is applied. It seems that the more gradual the gradients from white to black and the inclusion of more or less of those areas makes a big difference to the final image.

Anyway, here's a Mini-Tutorial for anyone who wants to give it a try. I hope the explanation and steps are sufficiently clear for everyone to follow.

Enjoy,
HayTay

Similar effect, but without 3rd party plugins.

John,

Good suggestion. I had tried using a Fractal Fill to start with but with unsatisfactory results. I switched back to give your method a try and it, too, doesn't look good when placed over another image and given a Bleach, Lighten, or Brightness transparency. The 'lightning' doesn't retain its brightness and washes out to a medium gray color.

I'll continue to try a few other things using your method, though, as it requires a lot fewer steps.

Good tip,
HayTay
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Hmmm. Seems to work fine with these types of transparency here.
Make sure the the top handle is all the way high. This is the brightness of those lines. To get nice Bleach transparency, it has to be 100% white.

HayTay, I gave your mini tut a go but when I get to the last step, the levels are grayed out and won't let me interact. I tried up along the taskbar too and I can't interact with them either.

Conover, where is that Shade curve popup? I played with the fractal plasma and clouds and used the profiles to get a satisfactory black and white but I didn't like the design of either that Xara generates. It seems to be the same pattern all the time, just different spots along it.) Never mind, I found it in the Color filters by using the help menu.

PS-I figured out the small square plasma/cloud fill on my own. If you choose 'single tile', that's what you get. Xara seems to have a predetermined size for it. I can make a very large rectangle and choose single tile but it won't fill the rectangle. I just get a tiny square tile in the middle of my shape.

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Originally Posted by Burpee

HayTay, I gave your mini tut a go but when I get to the last step, the levels are grayed out and won't let me interact. I tried up along the taskbar too and I can't interact with them either.

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Burpee,

Oops, sorry. I missed a step in the tutorial. After applying the Color Filter > Negative Live Effect make a Bitmap Copy (Shift + Ctrl + C) of the result. After that the Levels of the Bitmap Copy can be adjusted using the Photo Tool (P). Here's an update to the mini-tutorial with the step added.

Give that a try,
HayTay
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Originally Posted by covoxer

Hmmm. Seems to work fine with these types of transparency here.
Make sure the the top handle is all the way high. This is the brightness of those lines. To get nice Bleach transparency, it has to be 100% white.

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Right on, Covoxer.

That seems to be much better and closer to the effect achieved using Photoshop without the need for the 3rd party plug-in.

Increasing or decreasing the size/resolution of the Fractal Cloud fill changes the size of the bolts. An appropriate section of the Fill can be selected and either a clip or clip view can be applied to 'capture' a section and achieve the desired effect. Increasing the slope (thinner neck) of the Shade Curve using the added handles makes the 'lightning' thinner while a decrease in the slope (bigger neck) makes the 'bolts' thicker.

Nice one,
HayTay
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In case anyone was wondering where I was going with all of this, I'll show you.

I recently purchased a book, Photoshop Classic Effects by Scott Kelby, and have been trying my hand at duplicating each of the tutorials using only Xara Xtreme Pro 4 and any plug-ins (if necessary). I'm probably about 3/4 of the way through the book and none of them have been too much of a challenge. So far, there have only been two tutorials that have thrown me for a loop, one having to do with a Pixelation effect and this one on creating the Lightning effect. I think I've got a handle on both effects now and I'm pleased to share the result of the lightning one with you.

I changed the original stock image to one I could post here and I made additional changes to the Channel 7 logo, the accompanying text and the lightning (of course). I am more than pleased with the Lightning Effect and the final outcome. Thanks again for everyone's input.

BTW, the lightning image I used was the one I generated in my mini-tutorial using the 2D HyperClouds plug-in. I may try replacing the lightning later with one generated using covoxer's method.

Your help and comments are greatly appreciated,
HayTay
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Great result Harry and thanks for the thread. I can see other applications such as fiery explosions would be possible using some of these methods.
Incidentally, have you had a chance to check out Alien Skin's Xenofex plugin? It has a neat Lightning maker.

Steve,

Funny you should mention 'fiery explosions'. Here's a Photoshop tutorial link I was going to take a stab at on Free Photoshop Guides called 'Blast Zone'. It starts out the same way by creating 'Lightning' from 'Difference Clouds'. This may be another challenging tutorial for Xara Xtreme because of the Filters > Stylize > Extrude step. I've done fairly good so far so I'll have to see what I/we can come up with.

And, yes, I did play around with Alien Skin's Xenofex 2 Electrify and Lightning plug-ins and they appear to produce nicely formed lightning bolt(s). Unfortunately I haven't purchased the full version so I can only see the effect. I've thought about shelling out the $59.00 US several times but that's as far as I got. I'll have to reconsider the purchase.

L8r,
HayTay

Blast Zone looks interesting, though I have more fire colour in my minds eye.

Xenofex has been part of my kit for sometime, though it (like many other plugins) hasn't been used much since I discovered Xtreme.

As shown below Xenofex Lightning does create some nice bolts, but I'm sure even these could be created using Xtreme only..
Hmmmm http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/icons/icon3.gif

Interesting challenge! I'm ready to help you, if you loop again. ;)
Sometimes you just have to change the way of thinking to get it right.

PS This fractal topic reminded me of some old times. Sorry for going OT, but here's one more effect that I was using a long time ago with X1 (no LiveEffects). Perhaps someone may find it useful or interesting. Or it may be obvious. Anyway, here's the map of the XaraLand. :D

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Originally Posted by sledger

As shown below Xenofex Lightning does create some nice bolts

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Steve,

Thanks for the Xenofex 2 lightning sample. They are some really nice looking and well defined bolts. From my playing around with the demo, they are also a lot easier to generate using the Alien Skin plug-in.

I hear XWD calling my name a bit louder right now, though. :D

On to the next project,
HayTay

Hay Tay:
Your posting #22. Perfect for coral effect.

jclements,

Isn't it though! :D

Unfortunately most, if not all of the coral effect is due to it being an actual picture of coral from the Xara Xtreme > Clipart > Photographs 2 picture gallery. ;) I used my XXP4 generated lightning effect as a 50% Bleach Transparency on top of the coral photo. I was trying to show how it washed out to an icky gray when applied as a transparent overlay with the settings I was using at the time.

Oddly enough, though, in playing around trying to generate the effect of lightning some of the results did, kinda, sorta, look like the 'Blue Coral' image included in the XX Photographs 1 collection.

From what I've seen in various Photoshop tutorials the 'Cloud' and 'Difference Cloud' effects are used to generate a wide variety of textures, image enhancements, strange, and not so strange substances. I wouldn't discount coral as one of those effects.

Why not give it a try and see what you can come up with,
HayTay