More hotkeys

The thread title just about says it all. There still lots of things that cannot be done with hotkeys in Xtreme.

As someone who uses lots of hotkeys, and in other programs I use macros/actions, the more hotkeys the better for me. Third party macro-recorders can cope with mouse movements, rather than key strokes, but then any changes to the layout of the interface can wipeout whole collections of macros. We know that a macro recorder is unlikely, how about a comprehensive set of hot keys? I mean by that, allowing not only menu functions, but button focus too, and for working with individual layers, for instance.

Blimey! I knew my own needs and concerns for future versions were not widely shared by others here, but not a single person is interested?

For those who wanted macros/actions, which we know we are not going to get, it would seem to me that extensive hotkeys would be a good "consolation prize", allowing easier use of third-party macro recorders.

Oh well, I'll remain a lone voice whinging into the wilderness...only occasionally though, so don't worry - no more nagging-campaigns from me.

I'm with you :)

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Originally Posted by MarkMyWords

...For those who wanted macros/actions, which we know we are not going to get..

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Why are we not going to get macros? Because of the way Xara Xtreme Pro is constructed? Because the major users are graphical minded and cannot understand why anyone would like to have options to manipulate objects using structured code? Or?

I consider myself a 40/60% mind - that is 40% graphical and 60% programmer profile. This I think is a nice role to have. It makes me more understanding of both "parts".

With macroes the "coders" can provide extra functionality to the "graphical minded". Adding macro facilities to the application does not mean that people them self have to code a lot of lines. Macroes should be saved in files and therefore possible shared from user to user. Perhaps evend sold!

Such a project on the other hand would take resources from the Xara developers and thus remove those resources from other development. That is a point which talks against creating a macro part for XXP.

But I would also love to see macro environment for XXP!:D

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Originally Posted by netsi

Why are we not going to get macros? Because of the way Xara Xtreme Pro is constructed?

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yes :(

haven't got the reference to hand - but its to do with the way the program was originally coded at low level, if I recall correctly....

I think I was one of the people who put you down the last time when you asked for actions. As I still want to be convinced for the need for a recorder or a script or actions in XPro. Can you Mark gives us an instant when you want to batch process, run a script or complete and action with one key stroke on a vector drawing. See, I use AI a lot and it has this facility and worked in a large office where everyone used the programme and in the 2 years I worked there I never saw or heard of anyone using on vectors, bitmaps yes, but not on vectors. Maybe it is my ignorance that is making me blind to its effect use and the only time that I have used something that you have describe is preparing files for import into Flash.

I will try to give you an example of how such a Macro system might work. It is only an example and please take it only as that ;)

First see the article I have posted on my own blog: "Automatically create drawing path from illustarator file". Now if you ignore the part where the path are within an illustrator file. Imagine that the paths are selected parts in your open drawing.

So we have points on a line selected and start the macro. The macro will be see the document in a DOM, and the selected paths will also be there in an object - just like in HTML, where a webpage consists of elements in a tree structure.

So the macro iterates the elements extracting things like position. Iterating through the elements will allow the macro to create elements, in this example text elements.

The language
I imagine that a windows scripting language like javascript would be perfect - from the users point of view. The language should be able to do things like javascript can in HTML, allowing to do things like add, copy, manipulate and remove elements. It would also be nice to be able to do filing system things - ofcause secuirity issues will arise :-)

The module
As I mentioned before - I would hope for an OO based model, that is elements in a DOM structure.

Well I could go on, it is not hard to imagine as I only have to think: What can I do with javascript in a HTML page? And then take those options to the new macro environment :-)

Hi Sten,

I still cannot see a use for macros in a vector drawing application.

Macros are for making repetitive tasks, perform without user intervention.

Do you actually make vector drawings that are so similar that you perform the same tasks over and over again?

Rather than do that can you not simply copy the original object or path and paste into a new drawing?

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Originally Posted by Soquili

...Macros are for making repetitive tasks, perform without user intervention....

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Well simple macroes are that - but if a scripting environment like javascript in HTML was introduced, combined with a DOM view of the page, you could do much more complex things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Soquili

...Do you actually make vector drawings that are so similar that you perform the same tasks over and over again?..

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One classical example of a repeting task is the button feature of XXP. You define one button and repeat it. The button has the ability to dynamically change size - that feature you could look at as a sort of build-in macro. That is actually also where I expect macroes to grow: In the field between "repetitive task" and features simular to build in features.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Soquili

Rather than do that can you not simply copy the original object or path and paste into a new drawing?

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Lets say that you wish to repeate a series of tasks:
- Resize
- Rotate
- Paste
If this task should be done around the same point I imagine that XXP build in features would actually be rather difficult for such a task (though I am not 100% sure :-))

Actually, there are lots of repetitive tasks in my work, most other users tend to call them "work-a-rounds". Techniques that take several, if not many mouse operations can be reduced to one click with macros.

even small runs that I do a lot of

[such as: ctrl+A > convert line to shape > ctrl+1 > break shape]

it would help

especially if there is waiting to be done at any of the stages, which ties you down...

Hi Sten,

Just to clarify: You are describing a scripting language with full programatic access to Xtreme's internal data structures. Something like javascript talking to a DOM API.

A macro language would work at a higher level of abstraction, recording user actions in the user interface and playing them back. Something like the little macro that Handrawn describes above.

Both have their uses but I guess most people here are talking about a macro language.

Phil

Hi Phil,

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Originally Posted by PhilM

Just to clarify: You are describing a scripting language with full programatic access to Xtreme's internal data structures. Something like javascript talking to a DOM API.

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Guess in my head I see something like that, yes. Something like what you have in Office or Visual Studio. It is probertly a wild wish though! :-)

Thanks for clearifying!

I use PowerPro to do things like this. (in other programs, not Xara). It does hot keys, macros, button bars, menus and more that can be context sensative and may be good for your small needs Handrawn. And it's FREE! :D

It utilizes all three mouse buttons for button bars and mouse/hot key set-ups and has built-in scripting.

Oh, and it's FREE! :cool:

I'll look into it Dan - thanks :)

That looks interesting Dan, thanks for the link.

You're welcome Handrawn and Mark. :D

One thing, It is only a 32 bit program and is no longer under development. (although the creator still participates on the forums)
It will work under 64 bit Vista, just not perfectly. :rolleyes:

you guy probably know this - but I just found out I can set up keystroke sequences for the buttons on my wacom pen [always useful to read the manual :D]

okay I can only have 2 active at any time - but could well be useful