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Hi,
Just built my first simple website with xara extreme and I really need to create a simple Web feedback form on one of the pages.
Can this be done in xara?
My site is hosted on linux. I have very limited experience in coding by hand I'm afraid!
Please help!
Xara does not do forms... You will also need some type of script on the server to take the form data and email it to you or process the form data however you want.
Hi,
Thanks for the response!
What's the best (read easiest!) to do this.
Could I export my xara site, import to dreamweaver and add the form there.
Can dreamweaver produce the neccesary script to copy to my host server?
Regards,
Tim.
Tim
This is sacrilege in this forum, but if you are comfortable in Dreamweaver then create the whole site, forms and all, in Dreamweaver.
I iuse NetObjects Fusion for putting together my websites. But, I create all my graphics in Xtreme. It is the best use of both programs.
While you can create some pretty cool sites in Xtreme, it is a lot easier in a dedicated web page creation application.
Xtreme Novice, most web hosts provide example mailing form scripts for use on the server. Using google you should be able to find some sample web forms that you can modify.
Using Dreamweaver is not going to magically write a mail form for you - you still need to understand how forms work in html. Forms can be produced just using notepad, so don't go and buy Dreamwever to solve this problem!
My feeling is that if you produce a specific mail form page with little in it using Xtreme. It should be possible to edit it by hand to add the form.
Paul
The most common (ancient...) script on the Web is this one: http://www.scriptarchive.com/formmail.htm However, most hosts are removing it (if they haven't done so already) as the spam abuse is brutal. Sure, you can do it yourself, but you will have to keep renaming it every other day as the spam bots pick it up quickly.
Some sort of captcha is probably in order, as it will only be a matter of time before you are flooded. Also realize that forms encourages laziness... unless you are automatically processing a lot of data sent to you - perhaps a 'traditional', polite and well-formulated email will be more efficient for you?
Dreamweaver can help you create your forms... It will not create any back-end scripts. Forms are easy... the script is not.
Risto
If I need to put forms on a web page I use the coffeecup web form builder which is simplicity itself to use http://www.coffeecup.com/form-builder/ If you are having the completed forms emailed you can include a keyword in the subject line and then set a filter in your mail browser so all submitted forms are saved within a specified folder which saves you sorting them from your normal email.
Thanks everybody for your comments.Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpriester
I am not really comfortable in any web software yet, I just assumed Dreamweaver was the default choice!
I wanted to create a simple site (home, about, services, gallery, contact for a small construction company.) I quickly realised that web templates, and my hosts online site builder were not going to provide the creative freedom I wa looking for so I downloaded trial versions of dreamweaver, expression web and some free wysiwyg programs. Then I read a very complimentary review of Xara Xtreme, stating that it can export to html! Immediately after installing Xtreme I was off, designing layouts for my first page with total freedom! Then buttons, rollovers and links, all in a couple of hours with no web design experience, fantastic.
I appreciate now, that xtreme's web site capabilities (whilst very easy to use, and in my non-code understanding opinion produce great results)) are limited, so will try a demo of Net Objects Fusion as suggeted to add more functionality and elements to my site.
Thanks again for all your comments.
What's the protocol in this forum, could I post a link to the site to get some feedback and suggetions? Should I do that here or in a new thread?
Regards,
Tim.
Post in a new thread, Tim.
Risto is bang on about forms. I had forms in all of my 13+ years of tutorials and other Xara Xone content and they were being used by web bots to send spam out using the recipient's e-mail address. It was a real mess and I ended up just deleting the form page from several hundred sites. It was a real mess.
You could have a simple e-mail link and ask people to e-mail you with a description of what they need done. Or better still, provide a phone number and ask visitors to contact you for a free estimate.
There are some forms websites (for example http://fs8.formsite.com/) that you can find via a Google search where you create a form which you can link to from your website. These form sites charge a monthly fee based on how much service you are using. But they all have the thing where the visitor has to key in a set of characters to submit the form which prevents the web bots from hijacking your form.
I've been using a free php formmail script for quite a while that is quite good at what it does. It's updated quite often, prevents it from being used for sending out spam, and has quite a few features. You can download the script or use the configuration wizard which will ask some questions and tailor it for you.
The script is very well documented and has a lot of examples. It doesn't create the form itself, but, processes the information on the form. I normally create the forms in Dreamweaver and use this script to process the information.
http://www.tectite.com/formmailpage.php
PHP and PERL are the prefered scripting languages, although MS products can be used on a MS machine.
Forms and scripting are not that hard. Just click on view source and you can see the code which creates most pages.
How does that help? Xtremenovice said: I am not really comfortable in any web software yet…Quote:
Originally Posted by raynerj1
Again, Dreamweaver doesn't generate scripts of any kind so there is no "source" to "view". You can make DW plug-in towards scripts but it doesn't create anything.
If it's not "that hard" – sling something together instead of shooting your mouth off. The Web is due for a new form script with a captcha or other bot slapper. Hey, you can be famous! You will also help tens of thousands of people.
Risto
Risto, we're all on the same side here and it's not a John Wayne film..
Paul,
I have always been more of a Clint Eastwood kind of guy, but yes, you are right.
Sorry John, I'm having a crappy day and I took it out here, where I shouldn't have. I normally pray for telemarketers but they have stopped calling... :( I didn't put it very nicely. However, my point stands, if you have a solution, why not supply it? :confused:
Risto
Nice work on the Avatars Risto - I like the one with a red hat, smile and big tie best.
Hi Tim, I have used this a few times. It makes a nice form you just have to fill in certain things but the text provided tells you how to do it. But I would recommend you get a gmail account and put an email link there, quicker and easier. Gmail has a good spam filter plus you can use google analytics for all the info about your webpage and who is hitting on it etc. tao
Hi,
Thanks for all the feedback.
What I don't quite understand is why a form with no protection will result in lots of spam, but posting a simple email link will not?
Thanks,
Tim.
Simple email links *will* be harvested and result in spam.
Email addresses in websites are harvested by spam bot/spider programs that are constantly searching the web to find email addresses.
Not sure where you might have got the idea simple (text) email links are safer??.
I know sledger has already commented, but i think a summary of the problems might be useful:Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremenovice
Form mail scripts are problematic because:
1) The location of the mail processor is present on the html page and therefore vulnerable to exploits.
2) Form processing often includes facilities for forwarding submitted forms to arbitrary addresses. If this is so, it becomes useful to spammers by potentially allowing them to use the form processor to forward spam to their own chosen addresses.
3) Any form can be used by automated bots to send spam to you - they simply update the form content with spam and send it to you.
Countermeasures:
The 'type what you see' in the box mechanism tries to stop automated system sending form content to you. It works by building a random image showing distorted numbers/letters and expects the user to identify them and can check that the image has been recognised. This is quite hard for automated bot systems to do.
Spam filters on incoming form content and restricted email forwarding.
Email addresses embedded in web pages are problematic because
1) Bots can scan html pages and extract email addresses. They are then used for sending spam and often circulated.
Countermeasures:
Spam filters on incoming email.
Use images for email addresses and or provide email addresses as text but mangled so that the respondent has to alter the address before using it: myEmail "at" someplace "dot" com. Not a good solution because it stops the instant 'click to email' functionality.
Don't know if that makes things clearer or not.
Paul
This forum is fantastic, really knowledgable users.
Thanks Paul, much much clearer.
I have found a great flash form tutorial;
How about a flash form, is that less vulnerable to spam?
Thanks for all your input guys.
Tim.
Just to put all this in context - I've had a paying customer with two websites with contact email addresses directly on the html page. The customer hasn't made any complaint about spam but has said that they now get the majority of their customer contacts via email through the website.
So it's not always a disasterous thing to do. My advice would be not to worry about it until it really becomes a problem. My principle worry would be formmail hacks being used to redistribute spam, rather than incoming spam that can be filterred.
I have customers with flash sites and flash forms that don't get spam either. I wouldn't advise adding a flash form to a html page specifically for this problem.
Paul
Hi,
If I make a website with Xara, I create non Xara page using any web creation tool and place a form on that page and link them. I'm using this form software (not free) very easy to implement and customize. You design your form and copy and paste the html code into your page and upload it.
If you make this page secure (ssl certificate) you'll get very little spam.
Tom
Check with your Web Hosting company. They often supply email scripts that appear quite secure, far more say than MattsScripts. I've never had a problem using the Web Host cgiemail that I prefer to use for my clients and I've scores of scripts.
AFAIK, Matt's has a reputation for not being a secure solution. I've using the FormM@iler script from dbMasters (http://www.dbmasters.net/index.php?id=4) for several years now. It's been very reliable and works very well in most respects. It's actually running something like 10 forms on our site. (8 are accessible only through landing pages.) The email addresses are still secure even though we have been getting spambot form entries on the main contact form.
So far, I haven't successfully implemented the anti-spam features, although I'm in contact with people for whom they work well. It's probably something simple, and I just haven't found it yet.
Meanwhile, I'm giving the Tectite form a whirl. Thanks, ckh, for posting the link.
No problem, amore. What I like about the tectite script is when set up properly, it doesn't reveal any email addresses and provides many other features. I've never had a spam problem with it since starting to use it.
One of the main problems with an unfiltered form is an unfiltered email address or subject text box can be used to 'header inject' which can cause the form to be used to send out spam to a list of email addresses that were injected. That is many times worse than just getting the spam sent to yourself, which a captcha can be used to minimize that.
Hosts won't shut you down if the form is used to send spam to yourself, but, if it can be used to send spam to other email addresses, then they may very well shut you down, suspend your account, etc. until the problem is fixed.
Not sure if it was mentioned here, but, it was mentioned to use your email address instead of a form and was also mentioned that bots can pick up the email addresses. A solution to that is to make your email address an image and display it, not text or clickable link that brings up your email client. Just display the image which they would have to write down or remember. If made clickable, the link could be harvested also.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Risto
Scripts are not that hard, but I do not know what information he is trying to collect, what type of server and and where the mail.pl is located. Without that information it is hard to create a form which will help him. There are plenty of form-mail type scripts out there to read and learn from.
Scripts are not that hard if you know what you are doing. To someone who is not familiar with them, they may as well be in a foreign language.
From my experience, that's an accurate description. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by ss-kalm
BTW, the Tectite script seems to be working very well so far.
If you're just starting out, take a look at this: http://www.wysiwygwebbuilder.com/
It's easy, it's a massive $39 and forms are a doddle! The other extensions are pretty cool and you can use Xara to enhance your graphics.
Dreamweaver... costs the earth, Netobjects... bought it but just cannot get on with it, CoffeeCup... love it to death but maybe not for beginners unless you use Coffeecup VSD... their form designer is brilliant. I've integrated it into a XX4 site but it's a messy way of doing things.
Two more easy options for scripts:
www.tools4php.com
http://www.bebosoft.com/products/formstogo/index.php
Of the two, tools4php looks like the better solution for newbies and non-coders.
BTW, I tried CoffeeCup's form creation app a few years ago. It worked nicely on its own, but I couldn't successfully integrate it with the version of NetObjects I was using at the time. In that case, it turned out that I was better off creating the form in NetObjects because I could make it look like the rest of the website. Sorry to hear that CoffeeCup may not be a solution for Xtreme sites.
Sidenote: I'm very fond of NetObjects, especially version 11. What works for one brain doesn't necessarily work for another. :D
Egg, without knowing what the script looks like. Many hosts simply use(d) their own "flavour" of Matt's script (with the limitations mentioned). Depending on the site... If few people find their way to a site = even less bots will find their way to the script on that site. Basically, if nobody visits the site, there will be no spam from bots either...
tectite and the dbmaster scripts, as mentioned by ckh and amoore, looks to do the trick (based on the description (and they are free...)) but I'm not sure how easily Tim can implement and try them "from within" XaraXtreme, which was the original question? Anyone?
w00dy, I'm sure your suggested wysiwygwebbuilder works as well as the hundreds of free, cheap or expensive editors out there, but Tim was not looking to dump Xara Xtreme - he was asking how he could do it in Xara Xtreme, no?
The last two links by amoore:
- The toos4php script ("wizard") costs $28 (with spam included) or $44 (with spam protection).
- The bebo script costs between $30 and $70 (depending on the license).
There are all kinds of open source CMS solutions (with plugins) but none will help Tim, or other users who look to do it in Xara Xtreme.
I never got any spam with the most excellent cformsII for Wordpress. It's free - updated regularly - takes 5 minute to implement. It has been downloaded 330,000 times since last year (about 12000 last week) = great user base for feedback on security and spam. Unfortunately it WILL NOT help Tim or other Xara Xtreme users/lurkers looking for a Xara Xtreme solution.
Risto
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss-kalm
Keith, That is a true statement, but to learn a foreign language you grab a language translation dictionary. To learn to write a script, one just has to grab/download the translation dictionary. To make it even easier the code uses the english language. Let's translate english to english...
It isn't rocket science. Loops and decision statements are the only part that might intimidate a person who never wrote a program before. Don't let the amount of code intimidate you. Just decode it one instruction at a time, the same as a 'puter does. Hey.. if I can learn it with just the dictionary, then anybody else can.
Well, I'm sure few people would dispute that.Quote:
Originally Posted by raynerj1
However, this wasn't about questioningt Tim's intellectual capacity, but if there was a "simple solution for his simple web site" (paraphrased) available that he could use in Xara Xtreme (any simply website (by extension), I guess).
Risto
Risto, there isn't a solution to do it in XX or any html editor. html isn't a programming language, it's a hyper text markup language. You turn bold on or off, make a table, choose a font, etc. There isn't any 'coding' in html, there isn't any code, you just use html tags to display pages the way you want, similar to what's done in a word processing document. No formulas, comparisons, functions, variables, etc. so the most you can do is pass the information to something that is a programming language, php, perl, asp, etc. that can take can perform the actions you want with the info.Quote:
Originally Posted by Risto
So, there isn't a way to do it in XX or an html editor. You must use a script to process the form.
I know... :rolleyes: I was hoping that somebody could show how a form could be implemented in Xara Xtreme to be processed by any (perhaps mentioned) non-spam-fest scripts. Isn't that the topic of this thread?
Risto
Hi Risto, I'd no idea who created cgiemail so I did a bit of searching. It was created by Massachusetts Institute of Technology many moons back from looking at their pages on it.
As I said earlier it's just a script already on my web host's server and all I need to do is write a very simple text file for it to work. Getting the path to it is the hardest part. The variables are the bits inside the square brackets.
Example of the text file:
From:Your Website
To:me@mysite.com
Subject: Relace this with whatever you want to appear in the subject line:
For the attention of [name]
CLIENT DETAILS:
Name: [data1]. [data2] [data3]
Address: [data4], [data5], [data6], [data7]. [data8]
Daytime Telephone: [data9]
Evening Telephone: [data10]
Mobile Telephone: [data11]
Email: [data12]
I don't try to pretend for a minute to understand security problems etc but I have had problems in the past with bots running other cgi scripts even when they're restricted by robot.txt files but I've never had a problem using cgiemail. I can only speak as I find.
Egg,
2002?! Isn't that script from before "the internets wuz invented?" :eek: Maybe the trick to stay away from bots, is to go retro?! :D *kidding* ;)
I'm sure ckh or remi (if he sees it, can pitch in) about your script. John might even want to use his dictionary if he wishes... who knows, he might just find something?
That thread would make for a sweet spin-off thread in the site design forum.
I'm curious about the topic of this thread and the original question asked by Tim (post 1). Maybe I'm having a browser refresh issue? This thread is still in the Xara forum, regarding forms in Xtreme and how it can plug in to a script, right? So when it comes to Xara = how to make it work?
Seeing what Tim did as a first design... in this thread: http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthread.php?t=35343 (great stuff!) Combined with (possible) sane solution regarding forms/no-spam-scripts from this thread...
... isn't that what many people are looking for?
Risto
I don't think a form can be implemented in Xara, you need to add the text boxes and names which I believe is going to be outside the scope and intent of Xara. You could make the page, leave an area for a form, then either use an html editor to create the form or do it by hand.
I'd say the template that Egg posted would be pretty secure. The reason is that the To/From/Subject fields are hard-coded into the template, they aren't changed or subject to any of the variables being passed on. This is where the header injection would be a problem.
By putting all of the user inputted information in the body, you won't have that problem. The form can still be filled out by a bot to send you spam, but, that's a lot better than a bot being able to fill it out to send other people spam. The bots will find the form and attempt to find any vulnerabilities, that's just a fact of life. If you try to not make it available to the bots then it won't be available for real visitors either.
So, I guess the answer is that Xara can't create forms. Sure, it will output html but on the same note, you can make drawings in MS Word but it certainly wasn't meant to be a drawing program.