Time for an update?

Could we persuade Xara to give Webstyle a little polish? I believe it's been four years since it was last touched.

The first thing I'd like to see is to make it Vista-compatible (at the moment it must run as an administrator).

The second area, which I think is VERY important, is to provide much more help with integrating its output into the current crop of Web editors. I'm thinking of Namo WebEditor 8 and NetObjects Fusion 11 in particular. Also maybe Serif WebPlus X2 (although that is pretty strong when it comes to buttons, navbars, etc, so WebStyle is less important for that).

Meanwhile, I'm desperately hoping Xara WON'T spoil the current, superbly effective user interface and workflow!

Thack

While we're at it, do any of you folks have views on what you'd like to see in an updated Webstyle?

Also, does anyone have any idea how we might communicate our thoughts to the people that count in Xara?

Thanks,

Steve

Hi Steve,

There are members of the Xara Ltd staff that visit the forums.

This thread you have here would be a place to post suggestions you would like to see in Webstyle.

I've been looking at some of WebStyle's competitors for inspiration on how a revamped WebStyle might look.

[Product], from [link removedl] looks pretty impressive.

In particular, it seems to be able to "inject" the relevant javascript and HTML into the existing HTML pages of your website. I think this looks like a really useful approach, and would love to see Xara look into something like this.

I haven't trialled [product] yet, but I'd be very surprised indeed if it were as good to use as WebStyle. But WebStyle really should be made Vista-compatible at the very least, and improving the ease with which its output can be incorporated into your website is a close second.

Thack

I agree - Webstyle is in need of an update, and now. There are loads of sleek programmes out there that do fantastic jobs, take a look at OpenCube for example.

I would also have thought that perhaps Xara would have followed the examples of companies such as CoffeeCup.Com who offer free updates, for life. Also, I am sure that Xara would have a greater fan base if they offered all the templates for Webstyle as a free gift to its existing customers.

How about we the consumer get a 'Thank You' for being loyal patrons? I wouldn't hold my breath though!

Hi Nuncio,

I wonder, what do you do for a living and how much of your work do you spend for free for your customers out there? :confused:

Why should a software company pay a developer to develop new functions or a designer to create new templates, if they cannot earn money with this work? I mean, we are not talking about Open Source. They do that for their living. What are your expectations?

Remi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by remi

Hi Nuncio,

I wonder, what do you do for a living and how much of your work do you spend for free for your customers out there? :confused:

Why should a software company pay a developer to develop new functions or a designer to create new templates, if they cannot earn money with this work? I mean, we are not talking about Open Source. They do that for their living. What are your expectations?

Remi

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I think I would ask everyone to take a look at CoffeeCup as a great example of what a software company should be like. They offer free software updates for life, and support that is second to none; and their software is pretty good as well. The simple fact that Over 47,034,857 people have downloaded their software speaks volumes. (No, I don't work for them, but I do use their software a lot).

The answer to your question is simple, because I am a loyal customer who is more likely to buy the companies other software titles because I get such a great deal and good service on the one software title I originally purchased. And lets face it, the best form of publicity is word of mouth - if your customers rave about your software, how many new people will become customers as well.

I love Xara's software titles, I have tried them all at some point via Trials - I own several titles including Webstyle. I just think that Xara is missing a perfect opportunity to redevelope this title and make it brilliant for the people who use todays technologies.

Sorry - I didn't mean to make this sound like a sermon. I just get passionate about things like this not just as a user, but also as a website and software developer.

Download success of free Software trials is not so import. More import is the business success and I don't know how much money they do with their Software.

Their marketing seems to be good (including their word of mouth presence in forums ;)).

I must say, I have learned to be a critical customer, instead of a loyal one. If one product of a Software Company is really good, this doesn't mean, that every product is "great". Look at Adobe: Photoshop is good. Illustrator is not so good. The same with Xara: Xara Xtreme is good, but I don't own a license of the other Xara products. CoffeeCup's products are for the beginners (in my eyes) and I'm not interested in them.

Different users, different views.

Remi

Just for the record, unlike Nuncio I'm not advocating free upgrades.

I'd happily pay for an upgrade to WebStyle, if it had the features I've outlined.

I'd love others to join in - Xara are a great company who write great software, and I think they really do listen to their customers.

So, customers, speak out! What would you like to see in the next version of WebStyle?

Thack

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Originally Posted by remi

The same with Xara: Xara Xtreme is good, but I don't own a license of the other Xara products.

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I own licenses for 3D6, Xtreme 4 and WebStyle 4. I think they are all superb, except that WebStyle needs polishing up along the lines I've mentioned.

I really hope Xara turn their attention to it - it's a great product to use.

Thack

I use Webstyle occasionally for menus and some of the tableless CSS templates to generate the HTML, after that, guess what... insert/open the output in a CoffeeCup product, so in that sense I have a foot in both camps.

Since Webstyle's initial release, even since Webstyle 4, the world of web design has changed dramatically and there is now a plethora of packages out there to achieve what Webstyle does. It is no longer cutting edge and, in my opinion, vastly over-priced in today's world, little wonder additional templates are dangled as a carrot to buy.

For the same outlay you can purchase a very good WYSIWYG editor and a menu generating program, not to mention that fact that Xara Xtreme, the holy grail itself, is only $10 more.

On the issue of Xara (Magix) vs Coffeecup, as I've said elsewhere, as long as Charles Moir is on-board, I've no problems with Xara (apart from copy protection!). Coffeeup's "free upgrades for life" is amazing, I've picked up three upgrades in the past month, it's like Christmas all over again when you get an email informing you. However CC's ever increasing ranges of modules lends itself to that particular marketing model, with Xara having a significantly smaller product range and more complex software packages, the "free for life" is never going to be an option.

I seriously doubt whether Webstyle will ever be updated, I just hope that Xara continues to develop the HTML capability of Xtreme.

I agree that WebStyle is very over-priced. On the other hand, I find the workflow - from choosing the initial design, through inserting the text, tweaking the colours, and then using the superb sizing feature - simply unbeatable in any other product. It's just so incredibly simple and powerful.

Xtreme is great, but it is no substitute for WebStyle when it comes to producing buttons and navbars.

Perhaps the best approach for Xara would be to incorporate the WebStyle workflow into Xtreme. It sounds like a good option and I'd be happy with that.

Thack

I think the fact that it has been years since webstyle has been updated, it would be most unlikely that Xara would make any effort with this programme. They obviously see xtreme as the future.

It wouldn't be so bad had Xara been keen to explore CSS solutions as a replacement for webstyle.

Still - we can all dream!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nuncio

They obviously see xtreme as the future.

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But I've tried to use Xtreme to make buttons and a navigation bar, and it's hopeless compared with WebStyle.

Or am I missing something obvious?

Thack

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thack

But I've tried to use Xtreme to make buttons and a navigation bar, and it's hopeless compared with WebStyle.

Or am I missing something obvious?

Thack

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No, you are not missing anything, and you are right, xtreme is hopeless compared to webstyle for making buttons and nav bars etc.

Webstyle has a huge fan base that just wants an update to what was once a great (and still is ish!!) programme that did what it said, and did it easily with impressive results. All that Webstyle needs is a makeover, some new free templates, a better and more modern web page intergration (CSS and Flash), more user manipulation of graphics etc

I suspect that if the guys at Xara actually put there thinking caps on, they could actually come up with a major webstyle update pretty easily (that is if they actually have the skill base). Look, they have a whole user group here in the forum that they could get to beta test, and who better to give feedback and suggestions, than the guys who have previuosly purchased webstyle before.

BTW - the same could also be said for the other software titles as well!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nuncio

No, you are not missing anything, and you are right, xtreme is hopeless compared to webstyle for making buttons and nav bars etc.

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What is Xara using then, for producing the Webstyle elements? If they have a special homemade editor, it would be incredible if they would include it with a next version (wouldn't mind paying a good deal more for having it included).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nuncio

All that Webstyle needs is a makeover, some new free templates, a better and more modern web page intergration (CSS and Flash), more user manipulation of graphics etc

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I'll second that.

Rich

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thack

Could we persuade Xara to give Webstyle a little polish? I believe it's been four years since it was last touched.

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Yea, I think the "forgot" to tell that during the latest promotion of the program... ;)

I've used webstyle for years. Yes, it *is* time for an update. Even if there are no new features added, the elements are now simply dated beyond belief.

Navbars and buttons with a Web2.0 feel (icons on the buttons, etc) is a must-have. No offense, but 80% of the buttons and navbars, not to mention the templates, are so out of date that you really can't use them any more.

If resources are stretched at Xara, maybe the answer is fresh template/theme packs. Hire a graphic artist or two and put together 2008 styles and elements. I'd gladly pay for better, more modern looking elements and support for 1024-resolution size pages in the page templates.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thack

But I've tried to use Xtreme to make buttons and a navigation bar, and it's hopeless compared with WebStyle.

Or am I missing something obvious?

Thack

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I would say that (and this is just my opinion) that it isn't hopeless, it's just different. You do have more steps to create a button or navigation bar in Xtreme vs. Webstyle but you also have much more control. What I mean by more control is that you aren't limited to the design styles that come with Webstyle. I have both software packages and for years was an advocate of being able to create my own templates for Webstyle, but with the new ability to export to html in Xtreme, this has become obsolete. I think that if you give Xtreme another try, you will find that it is much more flexible. Again this is just my opinion.

Eric

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dotme

I've used webstyle for years. Yes, it *is* time for an update. Even if there are no new features added, the elements are now simply dated beyond belief.

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I pretty much gave up on Webstyle about a year ago. Needed to reinstall it (hardware upgrade) and discovered I could not access my account and re-download the template packs I had bought. That plus the fact the graphic elements are seriously out of date.

I keep hoping something will be done ... it was in its time a "best in class" piece of software IMHO, and it is a shame the new ownership have let it languish.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dotme

I've used webstyle for years. Yes, it *is* time for an update. Even if there are no new features added, the elements are now simply dated beyond belief.

Navbars and buttons with a Web2.0 feel (icons on the buttons, etc) is a must-have. No offense, but 80% of the buttons and navbars, not to mention the templates, are so out of date that you really can't use them any more.

If resources are stretched at Xara, maybe the answer is fresh template/theme packs. Hire a graphic artist or two and put together 2008 styles and elements. I'd gladly pay for better, more modern looking elements and support for 1024-resolution size pages in the page templates.

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I agree with dotme....web 2.0 is a much needed addition to the Webstyle theme library, as well as some pure css template choices.

Myself, I recently finished a degree in web development, and still find myself using Webstyle for tweaking the brain for layout, color, and site ideas. It's a great tool, and often gets the creative juices flowing.

I'll tell you what Webstyle DOES need, to bring it into the next version upgrade, and it wouldn't be that hard. Create a module with the tools to create Wordpress templates.

Wordpress is cutting edge open source web development, with a tremendous global community, with plugins and themes and coding that has made it the outstanding first choice of some of the biggest Fortune 500 companies using blog tech to connect with the world of their consumers and investors.

www. wordpress .org

Themes are simple graphical layouts that create the 1/2/3 column layouts, with header and footer designs that all can make use of graphical and css layout techniques...and ALL of this could be automated to a huge degree, letting the end user of this potential Webstyle upgrade do the following...


1) choose layouts based on pixel width (640 to 1024 px wide), no. of columns, css font choices, info box creation, using css connection, and all kinds of basic choices. Pick a few check boxes or radio buttons, and output a complete theme ready to copy to the Wordpress Theme directory.

2) create header graphics from any photo or image, sized for the layout choices above, with ability to customize with 2.0 tools (gradients, borders, glossy, reflections, etc). There are internet marketing tools for a very vertical market that JUST do the header, and go for $80.

3) Create theme sets with minor changes possible for font/color/col. #, with HEAVY focus on 2.0 design ideals.

4) Consider any other Wordpress development ideals such as plugin creation templates, ecommerce/paypal button generators with custom Webstyle styling, and a library of PHP code of a few dozen tools (date, db access, etc).

5) Bring a few of the WP geeks in to prototype some of these ideas.

With these ideas, you're jumping right into CURRENT web dev mainstream end-user needs, with simple automated solutions that let first timers with a little talent and a great tool share their ideas and solutions with a world audience, and you give current Webstyle users a very BIG reason to UPGRADE.

Other ideas for Webstyle....

Logos and 3D graphics....WEB 2.0 additions

photo galleries ... FLASH management and display...

ADD - simple form creation tools, with many pre-done layouts...comment form, login box, email list signup, etc.

Menus - Visit Opencube.com. I purchased a license for this menu creation and development tool, and I've NOT found a better, cross browser, and easily editable tool anywhere. Duplicate some of those tools (user choice of graphic backgrounds, dividers, etc) in the Menu Maker area.

These are just thoughts off the top of my head, but a VERY worthwhile direction for Xara/Magix to go, for CONTINUED Webstyle revenue, and ROI.

You've got a good and decent tool. Spend a bit of time to update it. There are tens of thousands of new wordpress users every month, and most would LOVE a tool like this, if it could be developed.

Rich

I fully agree with rafleet and dotme.

I have been using webstyle for years with no hassle (my last log in: 2004). Since I change my notebook (with Vista), my problems started to grow:
- no hint from developers on installing (OR: is it working at all???)
- no info has been published on HOW TO TRANSFER webstyle from one computer to another one (with special regard to file system difference between XP and Vista)

At present I keep using my old notebook with XP and make the required changes to webstyle generated pages - then copy (if I find all puzzle pieces) to the new computer.

This is no good for me, no good for webstyle developers. I do want to use Webstyle further (regardles whether new templates or tricks will be added or not). Thanks and waiting for your comments.

- no hint from developers on installing (OR: is it working at all???)
- no info has been published on HOW TO TRANSFER webstyle from one computer to another one (with special regard to file system difference between XP and Vista)

I thought your team is reading this forum and would answer to these questions above. Sad to recognize that they did not...

this is a user forum not a developer one :);)

of course developers do visit it - occasionally they make comments


as far as I know webstyle has not been updated by Xara for over 4 years......

its was not therefore designed to run on Vista [how could it have been?]

there are some other threads about that might help if you do a search...

Talkgraphics is run by it's users/members not Xara developers.
'Our Team' therefore would be regular TG members and users of Xara software.
One of two of the Xara developers do visit the forums, but I couldn't say if they are reading every single post or not (I know I don't :().

I suggest you sign in to your account and lodge a support ticket with Xara themselves and check their Knowledge base.

Thanks Steve - we cross-posted :)

I think there's been plenty of mention and information about the likely fate of Webstyle. Although Xara have updated their KB with some help re Xara software and Vista, I think it's fair to say that they will, like any other forward thinking software developer, be concentrating on their flagship applications rather than legacy stuff.
Xara Xtreme is now capable of HTML output and is almost certainly where the development dollar/pounds/euros are being channeled.
As we all know, there have been no developments on WB in many years and though there have been no official announcements (to my knowledge), I suspect that any further development on WS has long been dropped.

Reckon so Steve :)

The matter of cost is not a real issue. We have to pay for anything that we get -- if we want it to be worth something.

I have been using Webstyle 4 for an number of years - it is a nice package but it is long in the tooth. As I start to redesign my sites, if Webstyle is not updated then I will PURCHASE a new package. What is needed is a SEARCH ENGINE FRIENDLY Web 2.0 tool and Webstyle 4 is not it.

I just wish the staff at Xara would say yes we will have an update and it will be available mm/dd/yy or Quarter x of 200x.

If they are not going to do anything then they should tell their customer base so they can move on. I will never purchase a "graphics package" from them because I feel they will do the same thing to that package as they did to Webstyle 4 - get some revenue and move on.

Well, I filed a ticket with Xara regarding my suggestions at the top of this page...a few weeks ago.

In return, I got a generic email with a ticket number...and nothing else.

Sad really. Even I run a business, as a software programmer, and I respond to each one of my customers at the max within hours, and most times within minutes. It's Good Business.

And, I don't hide behind ticket numbers.

As Victor says, maybe it's time WE move on...as Xara seems to have done, with Webstyle.

I've got it running on my Vista Home Premium systems, and use it a few times a week, when I'm not using photoshop or other CS4 tools.

Speaking of which, yes, CS4 is VERY expensive, but the tools contained within are some of THE BEST of the market.

For the value versus ability, CS4 is very much a better value, with near infinite expandability, third party support that has been there for years (think all the thousands of Photoshop plugins, for example), and is regularly upgraded, updated, and expanded.

I've read great things about Xtreme...but I won't buy it...I won't even take the time to download the demo and even try it...because this company WON'T support the one software package I *did* buy, 5 years ago. Not saying much for Xara as a business model...

c'est la vie...

You get what you pay for...

Rich

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rafleet

I've read great things about Xtreme...but I won't buy it...I won't even take the time to download the demo and even try it...because this company WON'T support the one software package I *did* buy, 5 years ago. Not saying much for Xara as a business model...

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Your loss I'd say. Xara Studio/XaraXtreme has been around many moons (1995 I believe) and the support is superb. You found this forum right ;)

Hi rafleet

the global list of software that is no longer supported is a long one, and the companies involved many - including Adobe and all major players

no offence but this is life get used to it ;):)

you would do well to try Xtreme - especially if you like CS4
I use both as they both have their plus and minuses

I use Webstyle constantly because my graphics capabilities are almost zero, so while Xara Xtreme might be the "bees knees" to create websites, it does rely on you being able to do your own graphics. If Webstyle isn't going to be updated, then more templates would definitely be the way to go.

I take it Webstyle is now being abandoned? :(

There has been no announcement from Xara Group Ltd about abandoning Webstyle.

It is still being sold as an individual product and in the Studio bundle.

I meant abandoned as in no more updates / templates. Glad it's still being sold though as it's a great little program. :)

No announcements about updates either. But they never announce things until they are ready to be released.