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Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Hello,
with the Xtreme Pro Version 4, XARA seems to have introduced CD Protection.
This means that you can not backup any more your original CD.
I discovered today trying to do my backup copy as usual.
So, after some tries, I realized that if you need to install XARA Xtreme Pro 4, at the first run of the application, it REQUIRES the original protected CD into the CD driver. It check it for one second, asks for yor licence, and then the program is activated and runs as usual.
So store the CD in a safe place, and avoid any scratch on it, since you can not backup it any more !!!!
Hope that XARA will set-up a low cost service for CD replacement in case of damage....:confused:
Regards.
antimix
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
You may want to read this thread. Not only can you not backup the CD, but some virtual machines have trouble reading the CD because of the copy protection scheme being used.
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
For anyone curious, the protection Xara/Magix are using appears to be 'Ring Protech' - which you can see quite easily on the underside of the disc and is pretty much impossible to bypass or copy..
So yes store your disc with care ;)
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Ok pardon me, but this is frickin ridiculous on your part Xara
I did not even know this, what are you turning into microsoft?
if we pay for the software, the original owner should be allowed
to make a backup copy,
very stupid move, i must say!
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
I think it's a very resonable move. Pirating is rife. You've got the CD. If you loose it you only have to go to xara.com and download a copy. What's the big deal?
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
I've used Xara since 1996 and never made a backup copy. I've never made a backup copy of any software CD's I have. Install the software, store the disc. It rarely gets handled and not much can happen to it when properly stored. I backup my own unique files, but not software. Programs can be replaced and if need be, usually with an updated version.
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Egg Bramhill
I think it's a very resonable move. Pirating is rife. You've got the CD. If you loose it you only have to go to xara.com and download a copy. What's the big deal?
I run a business with multiple copies of software. Copy protected CDs that require me to have the physical CD to install on each PC plays havoc with my (and other companies) standard method of maintaining PCs. It is more expensive (i.e., it takes more time) for me to install software that has copy protected CDs.
If Xara wants to play with the big boys, they need to get away from the gamer mentality. The copy protection scheme they are using is primarily used to protect game software. Businesses with multiple copies have different needs than individuals or very small companies with only a few copies.
As for downloading a copy of the software, please note that, with this version, Xara has a new system. The download is the trial version and there is a different serial number than the CD version. Even assuming that the download program is identical to the CD version, I still need the CD to install a complete version (the CD does contain many more files than can be downloaded). Again, that solution is not acceptable for many businesses with multiple copies.
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Egg if version 4 DL follows the same methods as previous versions, then it will fail to work after 90 days, so unless you have a CD by then they may be in trouble.
Xara have done something which many software companies have not, which is to make their software pricing sensible and affordable - this is I think the key to reducing piracy.
I agree with Bob Hahn - my purchased CD's have been stored carefully and so far are fine.
But I do understand people who believe they have a right to create a backup and, infact the Xara EULA states.
Quote:
XARA XTREME END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT ("EULA")
You are permitted to:
1. load or download the Software and use it only on a single client computer which is under your personal control;
2. transfer the Software from one computer to another provided it is used on only one computer at any one time;
3. make one copy of the Software for back-up purposes only in support of the permitted use. The copies must reproduce and include Xara's copyright notices;
4. transfer the Software (complete with all its associated documentation) and this license to another person provided he has agreed to accept the terms of this Agreement and you contemporaneously transfer all copies of the Software you have made to that person or destroy all copies not transferred. If any transferee does not accept such terms then this license shall automatically terminate. The transferor does not retain any rights under this Agreement in respect of the transferred Software or license.
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
I'm sure Xara would be willing to sell you a multi licence copy Tom so easing your multiple install problems but most of us are talking about the standard user who by agreement can instal XXP on 2 machines.
It's my understanding that the download version has all the files that are on the CD apart from the Movies that can be downloaded seperately. I could be wrong regarding this.
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Steve,
Quote:
Egg if version 4 DL follows the same methods as previous versions, then it will fail to work after 90 days, so unless you have a CD by then they may be in trouble.
They'd have great difficulty copying it if they hadn't received it Steve ;-)
If you've purchased the product you can D/L it and enter your serial number so the 90 days isn't an issue.
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Egg Bramhill
They'd have great difficulty copying it if they hadn't received it Steve ;-)
..and therfore have no need to download it again because they haven't lost it - which was what I thought I was talking about?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Egg Bramhill
If you've purchased the product you can D/L it and enter your serial number so the 90 days isn't an issue.
Does the CD version serial unlock the DL trial version? I've never tried it (or my memory is failing :p).
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Egg Bramhill
I'm sure Xara would be willing to sell you a multi licence copy Tom so easing your multiple install problems but most of us are talking about the standard user who by agreement can instal XXP on 2 machines.
Yeah, right. I wish I could call software companies and ask them to sell me stuff on my terms. Xara does sell business packs in 5, 10, and 20 units, but reading the website, it is only a volume discount pricing scheme - you still get the same CDs. Which is great if you are a small company that needs exactly that many copies, but you still have the CD protection problem. Xara does not offer an enterprise licensing scheme.
If Xara wants to seriously enter the business market they need to meet the needs of the business market. Many post here about software changes that would enable Xara to better compete with Adobe. Well, copy protection is a deal breaker for many companies, so Xara wouldn't even be on the playing field.
Of course, the current scheme meets the needs of many that post here. Based on the comments I read, my guess is that many poster are individuals or have very small businesses, so installing from CD on 1 or 2 PCs is no big deal. I am offering a different perspective.
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Having worked as a network administrator for more than 20 years and dealing with volume licenses I believe I can offer an experienced opinion.
Enterprise licenses are most common for software like Microsoft Office where hundreds or thousands of copies are required. Graphics software is usually purchased in small quantities.
One corporation had 15,000 licenses for Office, but only 10 licenses for Adobe Photoshop and 2 licenses for Adobe Illustrator.
Some software purchases were on copy protected media and corporations deal with that situation without making demands for non-protected media.
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PatentGuy
Well, copy protection is a deal breaker for many companies, so Xara wouldn't even be on the playing field.
.
This isn't a fair statement. I believe you might be misrepresenting Company Grade Business Software. Copy Protection is serious business.
And I'm not talking Adobe or Corel applications available to all from retail shops and online shopping malls.
Specialised software for specialised industries use security HASPs/Dongles etc, and are what the real big boys use.
Yes, these businesses (large and small) use and HAVE to deal with these specialised software companies who use such copy protection measures to protect their intellectual property not just from piracy, but industrial theft.
I'm talking expensive software, some that costs thousands of dollars, literally.
Take the RIP software that is used with one brand of high-end wideformat printer (1.4m wide) as one example of 'copy protection'. The HASP is not the usual small device that fits the P/Port or USB, no, the 'dongle' is the entire $55,000 printer itself. No printer connected - ha! no software works.
Another example is CadLink SignLab and Gerber's Omega Composer, without the hardware dongle, no go. SignLab is not cheap vector design software.
Loose the dongle, pay for a new one.
SignShops all over the world pay many thousands of dollars over the years for their software, forking out for an extra copy of CorelDraw when a new PC is added to the network is lunch money. XaraXtreme is pocket change.
At the end of the day, when you buy XaraXtreme (or any other software) you only own the license to use it under the terms of their EULA, you don't own the software.
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Quote:
Does the CD version serial unlock the DL trial version? I've never tried it (or my memory is failing ).
It did in the past Steve. I believe there are now 2 serial numbers (from what I've read) but provided you've purchased a copy then you can go on line, D/L the trial version and unlock it with the serial number supplied on the site.
Tom, how many computers are you needing to copy XXP too that it becomes such a momentous task?
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Egg Bramhill
Tom, how many computers are you needing to copy XXP too that it becomes such a momentous task?
I have worked IT for companies with 20 to 300+ employees. This version of Xtreme is the first time in years that I've had to install software on multiple PCs via a CD. (Even Windows can be installed without CDs.)
I learned a long time ago that it is time consuming to install copy protected software, particularly disk based copy protection. And, as the IT person, if I have a choice, I chose the one that makes my life easier.
Also, I don't make an effort to store CDs. I don't need them. They take up space and, to prove valid licenses, the actual receipt or purchase order is typically required, not the CD.
Remember floppy drives? At one time they were on every PC. Now it is CD's turn to disappear. Not all my PCs have CD drives.
I am approaching this from an IT point of view. If I bought Xtreme for my personal use, I wouldn't have said a word.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sledger
This isn't a fair statement. I believe you might be misrepresenting Company Grade Business Software. Copy Protection is serious business.
And I'm not talking Adobe or Corel applications available to all from retail shops and online shopping malls.
Specialised software for specialised industries use security HASPs/Dongles etc, and are what the real big boys use.
No misrepresentation intended. I am speaking from my experience working with various US companies. I also know that, as an IT person, I will not buy disk-based copy protected software if I have a choice. I am not ranting against copy protection, just disk-based protection. Also, there is usually no choice when it comes to the very specialized software you've listed. Xara products are the type that are purchased retail, and there are choices.
I don't view Xtreme as specialty software suitable only for a specialized industry. Xtreme may be a great tool for your industry, but it is a great tool for almost every industry.
As an engineer, I see great value in Xtreme for business graphics and think it has the potential to become as ubiquitous as MS Power Point. Xtreme is not in the same league as AutoCAD, which is specialty software that costs several thousand dollars and used to require dongles. But, even they got rid of that form of copy protection.
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Got to say what Tom says about disk-based copy protection makes sense to me
However I think it is further evidence of where the powers that be [magix] think xara should be pitched - I think this makes commercial sense - but its a pity....
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
I read this thread with interest as it has explained why when my XtremePro 4 cd arrived last week my dvd/cd drive would not even recognise a cd had been inserted. In the end I had to fit another cd drive to my pc to be able to install the software so I am not happy about that (the original drive still reads my other discs so it is not faulty) I have been using Xara products since I saw a pre release version of the original Xara at a computer trade show nearly 20 years ago but this may be my last purchase as imho the copy protection only inconveniences geniune purchasers not users of pirate software - they simply go to a 'file sharing' site and download cracked versions of whatever takes their fancy.
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Egg Bramhill
you can D/L it and enter your serial number so the 90 days isn't an issue.
The full, non-trial DL version has always been time-limited in the past, telling you to install from CD when it expires. Is this not still the case?
In any case, the DL version has its own problems in that it requires internet activation. This wouldn't normally be a problem when the CD version was the preferred alternative, but now we have two different annoying encumberances to choose between.
Worse, from my POV, is that the change happened silently without informing us what we were in for. I did not expect Magix's consumer-software copy protection scheme to show up on this traditionally copy-protection-free product and it certainly impairs the value of the software for me.
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Calm down folks - it's not as if you have to sacrifice your firstborn to install from the CD!
While moving between offices I've been clumsy with CDs in the past, and have lost or damaged them: twice I've contacted Xara for duplicate CDs. They arrived the next day both times and while I don't remember how much I paid, it was not more than £10 for replacements.
If making copies of the CD is so important to you, there are ways of doing it: I've no intention of trying it but a two-minute Google search turned up all the information you'd need.
Take care of your CD - print off a DVD case inlay and keep it in a DVD plastic case!
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Daniel, you must be living close to Xara office then.
I live in Moscow, and Xara CD takes about a month to get here.
Moreover our post service can't pretend to be the world best, so both times I ordered CDs they arrived in cracked boxes.
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Daniel
Calm down folks - it's not as if you have to sacrifice your firstborn to install from the CD!
You are correct for an individual with only a single PC to worry about. But, please think outside the box of a single user.
Imagine that you are a corporate IT person and have to install that CD on 5 - 10 - 50 - 100 PCs. With the old version I could write a script that would install the software, enter the serial number, and make the appropriate registry changes. And, all the PCs would be automatically updated the next time they logged onto the network.
With a copy protected CD I have to go to each PC and install from CD - one PC at a time. Oops. No CD drive on this PC. Gotta install one to install the software. Oops. This PC has a DVD-RW that cannot handle the copy protection. Gotta install a CD drive.
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
You have the same problem I had Tom, the dvd drive cannot cope with the copy protection :( As I feel at the moment this will be my last purchase of a 'magix' product. I have bought every update of Xara, Xara3d and Webstyle plus all the extra webstyle packs, but no more because of a silly bit of 'protection' thats inconveniences buyers but does not bother the pirates.
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Guys I must have missed something - you mean if I have a DVD-RW drive, I won't be able to install Xtreme4 at all?
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
I've never heard of it up until this thread, so it seems you have to be unlucky enough to own a DVD/RW drive which has problems with Ring PROTECH. Personally I've never come across this with the hundereds of drives I've installed and sold, no-one has ever complained it won't read their purchased software discs. Both my main PC and Laptops had no trouble at all reading and installing from the disc.
I'm eager to hear more about this?
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Centaurus
Guys I must have missed something - you mean if I have a DVD-RW drive, I won't be able to install Xtreme4 at all?
Not necessarily. Some DVD-RW drives do not play well with CDs. Others work fine. I only have one DVD-RW drive that gives me trouble. The others work fine.
The Ring Protech (or ProRing) copy protection scheme used by Xara requires accurate control of the hardware to access the "hidden" data. One problem with disk-based copy protection is that it is very dependent upon the hardware. Fortunately, such copy protection is not that widely used and is mostly limited to the gamer world. According to some gamer sites, it is not commonly used in Australia.
I imagine most DVD-RW drives would work fine. But, if you have trouble, let us know.
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Geesh, I wish I would have known this before making my purchase for Pro 4. It was between upgrading Xara or CorelDraw and if I would have know about the silly copy protection I would have chosen Draw. This is just crazy as cracked versions will still be out there.
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
The copy protection is actually a joke.
I was talking to an friend and convinced him that Xara was wonderful software. His reaction was "Great - I'll get a copy".
I directed him to Xara's site, to which he replied "No thanks, I'll get mine free from .....................".
I have to admit, that I was slightly upset, somehow it was really upsetting me that he wouldn't pay for a legitimate copy.
But to get back to my original point (and one that has been mentioned before in this thread), only the honest, legitimate users are having a problem with this copy protection. The pirates have sorted it out long ago.
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now POSSIBLE!
Current Alcohol 120% 1.9.7 Build 6221 makes a perfect working CloneCD image (ccd) of original Xara Xtreme Pro 4 CD
I needed it, as I am not going to run to 40 machines with CD to setup 100Mb of software
Seb
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Welcome to TG Seb.
I assume you have 40 licenses Seb?
Could you try mounting your CD image on another PC to install Xtreme4 and let me know how that goes? :)
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now POSSIBLE!
Of course I have licences (otherwise I would not be posting it here)
Using this image mounted via Slysoft VirtualCloneDrive just works (on ANY PC)
Seb
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Hi Seb,
I'm curious as to how you have managed to succeed beating the Ring PROTECH protection with this method when my own tests (using Alcohol120%/Slysoft VirtualCloneDrive) have failed.
Perhaps you have discovered a step that I have missed?
To reconfirm my earlier findings, I have just followed your lead and tried again on a clean WindowsXP Pro system with the same results.
Therefore the results seem to indicate that it is not possible?
See screenshot.
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Well, this is a drawback of being purchased by Magix...
Some other companies, purcased by known brands often have much more serious consequences...
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Just select Ringprotech from Datatype pulldown menu on first page of Image Maker Wizard
It is definitely possible as I use the image
Seb
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sledger
Hi Seb,
I'm curious as to how you have managed to succeed beating the Ring PROTECH protection with this method when my own tests (using Alcohol120%/Slysoft VirtualCloneDrive) have failed.
Perhaps you have discovered a step that I have missed?
To reconfirm my earlier findings, I have just followed your lead and tried again on a clean WindowsXP Pro system with the same results.
Therefore the results seem to indicate that it is not possible?
See screenshot.
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spgsitsupport
Just select Ringprotech from Datatype pulldown menu on first page of Image Maker Wizard
It is definitely possible as I use the image
Seb
I haven't tried it yet, but I would think that any image backup program such as TrueImage or Ghost could back up the cd files. Am I wrong?
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Yes, sure, the data part no problems. But the CD is protected for a reason, right?
The reason one could expect it is the fact that it should not be possible to use the program without the original media.
Hence the executable has a bit of code that looks for a certain characteristics of the CD (the protection bit)
So only Alcohol 120% will make a perfect image out of this CD
Also either TrueImage of Ghost are NOT CD image applications (they are HD imagining tools)
Seb
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
OK, it was the image type which was the step I missed in my testing.
However, whilst the Xara EULA allows for one backup copy of your purchased software, it does not allow for installation on multiple PC's which are to be used by many users.
It is also questionable as to whether this 'type' of backup is legal under the terms of the EULA because you are ;
[a] altering the distribution format and
[b] circumventing the manufacturers Copy Protection.
Remember, illegal distribution/Pirating devalues software, has a negative affect on development and increases the purchase cost for honest users.
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spgsitsupport
Also either TrueImage of Ghost are NOT CD image applications (they are HD imagining tools)
Seb
OK, so it's hd file structure vs cd file structure then.
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sledger
OK, it was the
image type which was the step I missed in my testing.
However, whilst the
Xara EULA allows for one backup copy of your purchased software, it does not allow for installation on multiple PC's which are to be used by many users.
It is also questionable as to whether this 'type' of backup is legal under the terms of the EULA because you are ;
[a] altering the distribution format and
[b] circumventing the manufacturers Copy Protection.
Remember, illegal distribution/Pirating devalues software, has a negative affect on development and increases the purchase cost for honest users.
All that being so then, how does Xara expect us to make a backup? Or do we just download it from the web site? :confused:
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Re: Backup of XtremePro 4 CD now impossible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Improv
All that beingso then, how does Xara expect us to make a backup? Or do we just download it from the web site? :confused:
I'm no spokesperson for Xara, but my take is that Xara do not expect you to make a backup, the EULA simply allows it.
Yes, log in to your member area and download it would be my best suggestion.