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All graphics by Aunt Betsy are being removed by Aunt Betsy
Betsy, it looks good enough to eat. Star shaped candy...ummmm :)
LOL I was making the brush to make Candy Canes with and then just made a star too. Glad to see that you can still tell it is candy.
Aunt Betsy, it is the flavorite of the day's posting. Great brush, great effect.
All graphics by Aunt Betsy are being removed by Aunt Betsy.
Great design!
Would make a really cute wrapping paper for those little knick knacks given at Xmas. :p
Thanks James!
In my zip file I included a brush for making candy canes too.
Dear Aunt Betsy,
This would also make a great frame too, forgot to add. Let you know more when I download it. Your patriotic posts, I'm thinking of printing out pictures of my family in the military and hanging them on an "always" tree. You take a Christmas tree down, but you are proud of your family on a daily basis.
Among the "frame-ables", a hand-written letter from the Captain of the U.S.S. Nimitz (aircraft carrier) congratulating us on our two sons exemplary service to the ship. Arrived on the fourth of July.
You give me that Red-White-and-Blue feeling right here in my heart.
Sally
Oh Sally! You must be so proud of them. My youngest niece just entered the US Naval Academy in Annapolis, she would like to fly jets, and we are very proud of her. I'm a Navy Aunt.Quote:
Originally Posted by sallybode
I wonder, if it's possible to start a dialogue between proud American Mothers and proud Mothers in Irak, Afghanistan or Iran over the Internet?
The is a CorelDRAW forum, since when are you a CorelDRAW user, Remi?
Hi Sally,
I'm not sure, since 1992/93 or so. I started with the good old ATARI ST and the DTP software "Calamus". But Corel Draw was my first DTP solution on a Windows PC. In the year 1995 I found CorelXARA, the former version of Xara Xtreme and since then I prefer to use Xara Xtreme most of the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by sallybode
Regards,
Remi
There are more people for the moment who are earning a living with that which is real enough today for the present market, though Xara has potential, real life means spot color, vinyl cutting, sublimation, proper output to .pdf and a way to pull it all together. Yes, there are wonderful things which Xara does, DRAW also, the world is not all just one thing.
In the meanwhile to help people who need help is what this section of the forum is about. Not a simpering "Gee, I was so smart that years ago I gave up on DRAW...." excuse me, you don't know what you are talking about. Some 40% of industry which is going to use software to do what DRAW can do is using DRAW in one regard or another. Perhaps you gave up on DRAW as it too too much to figure it out. AutoCAD is difficult, but it was fun to master. Why have five programs to do what one can do? I have a family to spend money on too and I know you do too. And no I didn't buy AutoCAD, but DRAW has plenty of features which encorporates that to keep me happy. Before learning CorelDRAW I became equally skilled at Illustrator, so if now I recommend DRAW, I have enough experience to say so.
Remi, if some don't share your self hatred of western culture, hatred was put down in WWII wasn't it, or should we all appologize for breathing? If facsims rises in another disguise?
Everything Americans has done isn't bad, you just choose to ignore them. When the great Tsunami struck south east Asia, predominantly Muslim, they were human beings, the U.S., despite being already on the other side of 911, we sent Marines in to clean up, to help pick up yes, the dead bodies, build shelters, schools, roads. Germany never would have known as I don't think they sent anyone to help whatsoever, Britian did, Australia did, so did Japan. Who helped American when New Orleans flooded? Americans help everyone, again we helped even other Americans.
Perhaps Americans are proud of their country because they have a reason to be.
Remi ...Quote:
Originally Posted by remi
Really... I detect some snideness. :)
Hi Sally,Quote:
Originally Posted by sallybode
all this proud stuff is the wrong way of thinking. Look at this thread. I've asked a short question. A question which should make you thoughtful.
Instead, your reaction is a post with things you said about me, which are so wrong and have nothing to do with me. This is more the typical reaction of George Bush and his friends in the Oil Industry: If you're not with me, you're against me. That's not the right way.
With all your proud about CorelDRAW and your country you has said and thought wrong things about me. And believe me, in the end it really doesn't matter about which TalkGraphics member or which country you are talking about.
My question was "I wonder, if it's possible to start a dialogue between proud American Mothers and proud Mothers in Irak, Afghanistan or Iran over the Internet?".
The answer could be that it is not possible, as long as pride is stronger than the insight. Another answer could be: "Yes, it must be possible and perhaps the mothers talk to their sons about the other mothers and their sons in this other country and in the end they know each other more and understand and respect each other." Sounds foolish? I'm sure, 30-50 years later such conversations will take place. It's the same like in all the other preceding conflicts. I'm further in faint hope, that somebody is able to stop all this hate and lack of understanding between different cultures.
Remi
Remi,
When I started this tread I titled it “Something for USA Independence Day”. I am aware that there are people on this forum from many different countries so I made sure that I identified what the graphic was related to with sensitivity to the global nature of the members. If someone from another country cares to share graphics related to their national holidays, I would hope I would have enough good manners not to take political pot shots at them and make them feel unwelcome to share their graphics. Your question was completely out of line.
Asking questions designed to make people think is dangerous Remi.
But I am sure you know that.
And you provoked the usual tirade of unwarranted personal abuse that follows such questions. If anything that is what is out of order here.
So sad. No wonder there is so much trouble in the world :(
Aunt Betsy, my intention was not to make you feel unwelcome. As you know, we Germans has learned our lesson about national pride since the criminal nazi regime 60 years ago. I know, that there was no such learning process in other countries of the world. I have a bad feeling, whenever I hear about such things like national pride, because I know, that such pride exists on both sides - the good and the bad side and no side is right. National pride together with religious motives is the worst combination, as we can see with the worldwide terrorism.
Steve, you're right that's dangerous to ask such questions. Such questions confront somebody with the complexity of the real world and are uncomfortable. But in the end, they starts a thought process and therefore they are sometimes necessary.
Peace
Remi
Remi,
There is a huge difference between the kind of National Pride where people blindly follow leaders and Patriotism where people have the freedom to follow or not.
Patriotism in the U.S. is a choice and is supported by the basic freedoms as outlined in our Constitution.
National Pride like that which existed in the old Nazi government was first presented under disguise, then rammed down the German people's throat. If you didn't agree, you were immediately executed or sent to death camps.
There isn't anything remotely like that in the U.S. nor has there ever been.
The last time we had a big fuss about what is right and wrong, there was a Civil War. The right side won in that bloody contest.
I spent eight years in Germany during the Cold War era. Lot of today's German youth forget the sacrifices of the U.S. and its allies to help Germany remake itself. Today Germany is no longer divided into East and West and celebrates their freedom to choose daily.
Making comments about a candy cane looking design to celebrate the American Independence Day and inferring it is somehow along the line as the Nazi national pride, is way beyond reasonable thinking.
Do yourself a favor Remi, drive to Luxembourg and visit the cemetery there where there are thousands of dead soldiers who gave up their lives so that you may live in a free Germany, one that is full of Democratic Freedoms and choice.
Most likely this topic will get locked and my comments removed, but someone has to say it. :D
Hi James,
I'm sure, you know, that I'm not trying to compare American's with Nazi's 60 years ago. I wouldn't do such things. If you don't know that, you now know it. And no, I'm not such kind of young people who don't know, what great things the American's did for us Germans. I know it and I'm thankful.
It's disconcerting, how some of your reactions are, if somebody say something against your patriotism. (It seems patriotism is the better word, than national pride.)
Regards,
Remi
The point is Remi, it was a candy cane design and the colors red, white and I think blue in the design.
Your comments rationalizing a perfectly innocent design to celebrate Independence Day in the U.S. as a overblown assertion of a dangerous National Pride is irrational and not needed.
Please consider the following:
Mothers have pride in their children. They also do not like to see their children harmed.
If the mothers of the world could establish a dialog I think they would help to prevent any terrorism in a more peaceful manner than any politician or diplomat.
I believe this sentiment is similar to what Remi was pointing out in his original post in this thread.
Remi has a very good grasp of English, but English is a very difficult language for native speakers to convey thoughts.
Peace to all.
Bill - thanks for the small still voice of calm
if there was more humanity and less posturing we would all be better off :)
peace
I have removed my offensive graphics from this tread and I am sad to say I will no longer be sharing any of my graphics on this forum.:( I have enjoyed my time at this forum up till now. I would have removed all my graphics from all my treads but I can't seem to edit them now. I never meant to spark a political argument, there are lots of places for that on the web, this was suppose to be about graphics, that's what I was sharing.
I'm sorry to hear that, Aunt Betsy. As I said earlier, it was not my intention to make you feel unwelcome.
Remi
Me too.Quote:
Originally Posted by remi
I removed my even more offensive U.S. national anthem video from the forums. I would not want us jackbooted American thugs to affect the sensibilities of Europeans.
Since to answer Remi in all that I could say would only serve to get me banned, it has already driven a fine member away. I have dedided to make this statement.
As it is there is a much larger forum sponsored by Corel, coreldraw.com in which to participate. I will not lose my friend Betsy.
Let's have a poll of what is good for the members of the CorelDRAW forum, having me here who gives hours a week to helping solve members problems, or Remi. I am so disgusted with this whole chain of events, I don't blame Betsy for not wanting any more of this. Betsy was only meaning to be helpful and to be doing something she believes to be a benefit to other people.
Xara has an interest in providing a place users of even competitive software so that as they see the kind of helpfulness and goodwill among the members that they'd purchase Xara products. Best support on the internet. And it has been working. Such as when you know the truth and that what you have to offer is superior, they lose nothing in an open forum and discussing, their software will benefit them ultimately by any comparison. They are trying to encorporate positive changes for their customers and I for one, even though I am moderator here of this forum appreciate that. No matter what software I use, it all have benefited me in knowing what tools are best suited to what I have to accomplish. Working in Xara has improved my work in other regards in DRAW as well.
The problem is that human beings are still human beings here too.
And people will continue to celebrate Christmas or the Fourth of July even here, won't they? They will wish each other not "Happy Holidays" but "Merry Christmas". There have been some who would make an ugly scene over phrases that should cause no offense to anyone. That it is and has is happened before and in the future is wrong, but it will inevitably happen again. Even those who like a secular Christmas time enjoy the holidays for the cookies, the decorating and the music can find they also like "Silent Night" as much as "Jingle Bells". We sing the Australian national anthem because it is a fun little ditty though it makes little sense to us and for what it says what is offensive anyway? And the words of a Christmas Carol are equally unoffensive if you look at it that way. Americans tolerate Cinco do Mayo, Mexican Independence day is celebrated here with more hoopla than in Mexico, every third restaurant here is a Mexican one and it is my favorite kind of food as well. We all wear green of St. Patricks day and even the non-Irish have Corn Beef and Cabbage on that day. Americans celebrate everything. And after seeing "V is for Vindetta" I now can embrace the 5th of November, tongue in cheek. Britain has been our greatest friend, despite having fought two wars with on another, who thinks of that any longer on either side of the Atlantic? It is more than a language we share. Americans look at the Magna Carter as though they themselves thought it up. We love to listen to the British, finallly someone who hasn't destroyed the language. And we are in awe.
Xara has a large market for Xara products in the U.S. Is it the purpose and intent of this forum to tell Americans that "We don't want your business?" Last time I looked the British flag is comprised of the same colors as my homeland's. The EU flag has stars on it, are stars now offensive too? Although I am an American, I love the British people, feels like a second home, warm and charming, extremely loving and hospitable. Both the British people and my own treasure freedom and democracy. This post includes stripes in common with the flag of Great Britain and stars shared by the EU as well.
Not one individual on this forum is personally responsible for the events of 911 or what our countries have done in the interim. This is not a political forum, but an art forum.
Dialogues between women of different cultures isn't going to change what is the matter with the world and could even serve to get more women abused or even put their lives in jeopardy. Women still struggle to be taken seriously even in the West. It is still a man's world. But that doesn't even matter, we are all along for the ride, are we not? I cannot undo the events of 911, but I can live my life in such a way at to help my fellow human beings on this planet. To help people in their struggle to do a better job and to hang on to their job in the midst of tremendous technological change around us, is my niche so to speak and I have not had many complaints as to the quality to which I endeavor to give the correct answer fully to the best of my ability.
It doesn't matter if I do not know the answer, if I know someone who does, I send them elsewhere. I think I would want to know and people come back again and again because I do try to find out for them. In the interim, have found out much that has helped me too. It is not all altruistic, I've gotten a lot out of it too. But I have given much back as well.
If you all don't want me here, I'm a big girl, I've already been offered a blog at the new forum and have been asked to submit a show for their gallery. I will continue to help people whether it is here or somewhere else. If it isn't here, you can find me at coreldraw.com. Mystery woman is sallybode there too.
Freedom means the right to disagree with civility.
BTW, Remi, I am 1/4 German, my mother spoke it, she did not teach me, the other half is Norwegian followed by Scotch-Irish-English-French. So I come by the blonde hair genetically. I do speak a bit of French and am fairly fluent in American Sign Language.
I've argued against slavery and been banned on forums because of that, won't be the first time I get banned. But I do know I am alive. How about you?
First, let me inform you, that I'm in a dialogue with Sally via PM's (private messages).
Second, I would like to answer James: My comment was not caused by the candy design. I have nothing against such "innocent designs" (your words) about national holidays and therefore it's also not necessary to remove your video. The cause for my post were the comments #8 and #9, because they let me think about the paradox of patriotism: "Soldiers of both sides in a war may feel equally patriotic, creating an ethical paradox. (If patriotism is a virtue, then the enemy is virtuous, so why try to kill them?)" (source: Wikipedia article about Patriotism). I thought about this paradox in a global context together with the lessons learned in the history.
I should myself have held by the fact that we talk here about graphics and not about politics.
Peace to all
Remi
Lies.
I guess the comments about George Bush were candy related as well?
Just be honest remi, you dislike everything about America because of whatever bloated reasons that may be floating around in your head.
We hear all the comments you Europeans you make about Americans in the news. How soon they forget!
I guess we should have let France, Germany and Russia supplying illegal weapon parts to Iraq and continue to squeeze blackmarket oil in direct violation of U.N. sanctions?
Yeah, it's okay for Europeans to do it...I see.
No, James. I'm not willing to give you an answer on your provocativeness.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesmc
Please read my sentences carefully. If you find something, you don't understand, read it twice and start to think about it. After that, please feel free to ask me about it.
Remi
Is that a sideways apology or a way to wiggle out of saying you screwed up and said the wrong thing?Quote:
Originally Posted by remi
If you want to apologize then do it.
Otherwise, your sincerity will always be in question.
James, is this the only question or are there other points you don't understand?
(My next answer will be the last one within this thread.)
Remi
(((hears cricket chirping)))
Must be pride in the way. :)
To Remi and other members,
I do not like locking a thread. I believe in free speech but there is no point in continuing this thread. What purpose does it serve?
The forum depends upon the good will of its members and the fun we all have in sharing ideas and in helping one another.
This thread is no longer serving any of the above purposes, is it?
Remi isn't required to apologize. No one is. There was never any offense meant before Remi chimed in between either me or Aunt Betsy.
None of us can live this side of the events of 911 or what has happened since then without having some opinions about that.
It is best if you know in advance how offensive your comment will be to think twice. This is not censorship, it is just wisdom. Some words such as "patriotism", "pride", "honor" seem to be red flags these days to Multiculturalism. And there is some wisdom in not doing things so to speak, "in your face". But when you start banning things, it moves the pendulum too far the other way and is as much as a problem as what is or may have been said heatedly. Meanwhile, if the shoe is on the other foot, if tolerance has become really intolerance, when does it even out? There are times when people post things which have religion written all over them. And then if it is in praise of the architecture, there is no problem with it. We are looking at the form of the structure. Calligraphy is beautiful in itself, even if it is the name of Allah. So we choose to be offended or not offended. There will be holidays in which we here wish one another "Happy Holidays" and some will say "Merry Christmas". Again, one has the choice, to be offended or not offended. Agnostics and atheists also enjoy the holidays as the celebrations are still fun. And weather one sings "Jingle Bells" or "Silent Night", the music is still pretty. There are also threads which go too far for what is considered good taste in illustrating women in provacative poses. And yet because it happens all the time and women are few and far between on the forum we just tolerate this because what the heck can I do about it? On the other hand, with the way many women dress these days to go out to shop in the malls, it is hard to tell whether they put their negligee on to go shop or put their underwear on over their clothes. Life is crazy. Even underneath the spiked hair, the tattoos, the plunging necklines and the pants worn by both sexes... one could advise that "crack kills". In a humorous way, of course. For many people a bit more modesty couldn't hurt. But the people who participate in a fad do not see it this way. You can't get away from the magazines even in a grocery store for shielding children from pictures once reserved for the centerfold of Playboy, right there at a child's eye level. These are just your run of the mill tabloids.
If you put up a manger scene in your own yard, you can be made to take it down, no one will ask you to take down a haunted house.
This is the modern world.
Tolerance has been turned inside out.
We have threads which people drew tanks, guns, swords.... devices which are the means of great destruction. But on the other hand, drawing them does help teach one how to draw, but the same skills are acquired by drawing cars. But we are adults and can reason, there are still war movies, showing how it was, it does not mean that such a thread encourages anyone to go use these things and blow people up.
Anytime a thread has been closed on the forum, I think the moderators did it for what they felt was the best interest of the forum, however, it is best if people do this voluntarily. A part of me has never liked this policy. This gives us the power to do the right thing which is for all of us to find the common thread for which we are here and to get back to it: helping one another with graphics, particularily here, CorelDRAW graphics.
"Oh! wad some power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as others see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us
And foolish notion....."
EDIT - it has been drawn to my attention that I should make it clear that this bit of wisdom is for everyone [self included :D ]
Hi Sally,
I agree with you. My last post was the attempt to explain James, that it wasn't meant so bad, like he believes. But obviously it has no further sense and therefore I will end this discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by sallybode
Regards,
Remi
Il a été sauvé par la belle femme
"Oh! wad some power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as others see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us
And foolish notion....."
(Oh, what a power, the gift He gives us
To see ourselves as others see us!
It would free us from many a blunder
And foolish notion.....)
"Il a été sauvé par la belle femme" (It was saved by the nice woman.)
Merci, mes amis. (Thank you, my friends.)
Just so long as you realise it applies to you as well :DQuote:
Originally Posted by sallybode
Next time someone throws you a googly you might like to use the time-honoured political device of saying simply "your comments have been noted" and moving swiftly on. Or perhaps better still, ignoring it.
No one owns the high moral ground here.
The way a person reacts is a measure of both their maturity and their self-esteem.
Peace and friendship to all.