a special request: converting a tutorial vor adobe illustrator to XaraXtreme

hello,
I fear that my wish is contumelious.
but I have the hope, that someone says "so what" and is doing it.
okay, I often use e-frontier's Poser to create little scenes or some figures.
for someone like me, not able to draw someething more than circles or triangles freehanded, is it a big help to realize some pictures, that I have in mind.
but my biggest wish is to create a comic, anytime.
Poser is a pure 3D application. but there are ways to get toon/comic/manga-like results.
one perfect way how to make 2D Comic Art in Poser is described here:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/tutor...id=1183&member
at the end of the process, there is a line render. not bad, but not good enough for telling it a "comicdrawing".
there is some strangeness if you zoom in on the lines lines. and they’re kind of rough up close, and Poser puts spaces between them.

okay, no problem, because the author has made another tutorial to correct this. it explains, how to go to make a kind of full-fledged inked drawing.
it is going deep into postwork on the line art. but specifically, this tutorial is about digital inking in Adobe Illustrator.

you can find it here:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/tutor...id=1552&member

you will say: and Xara? what is the guy telling us for the relation to Xara?

okay, the author says:
"In addition to some experience with vector drawing, you’ll need the following:
- a vector drawing program. If you have the means to get it, I highly recommend Illustrator CS2, and this is what my examples will reference."

Ha! Who needs Illustrator CS2, if he can have Xara (in my thinking)
And so I thought about asking here in the forum for someone, that could rebuild the tutorial to do everything described for Illustrator CS2 in XaraXtreme.

this should be possible, I hope. I don't know Illustrator CS2, but Xara must do the same and maybe easier and better.

associated to it is my hope, that some people, interested in creating comic-art with poser and postwork in a vector orientated program, while reading the tutorial for Xara will think: "oh, what great kind of program is that Xara! I want to buy it!"

with the permission of the possible author, I would promote the new tutorial at renderosity to tell the people there, that Xara is the perfect solution for them.

okay, please tell me, if it is too much work or too hard to translate from Illustrator to Xara or my please is a little bit to barefacedbarefaced.
as a 40years old fool, I could stand the rain.
kind regards

Holger

deleted

You have wishes, dreams, and hopes, Holger. Those are valuable mental qualities to be able to materialize ideas into tangible concepts. Some of your wishes, mentioned, are capable of being done with means at hand and circumstances as they are.

An other of your thoughts, or request, is not viable. That is to hopefully expect someone in this forum to rebuild and re-distribute a tutorial authored by aka jwebster on the Renderosity.com Website. That is a question concerning derivative works, re-distribution, refutable Fair Use, and above all permission--a written consent--by the named author, including agreements on Terms Of Use and copyright policy.

There is a fortune worth of tutorials available on the TalkGraphics and the XaraXone Websites produced by skilled and enthusiastic Xtreme and Xtreme Pro practitioners. Make one of your feasible dreams of being able to do cartooning in Xtreme come true! Take your time and study the talented Bob Hahn's fantabulous and first-class video tuts in depth at Cartoons in Xtreme.

One day you might introduce one of your own tutorials in this forum. I, for one, will look forward to that day!

Cheers, Anders

Holger

I agree with Anders 100%, and I don't think it could possibly have been put any better, so I'll just back up what he said - watch Bob Hahn's video tutorials and the rest.

If your drawing skills are basic all you need is practice - you can do it ALL in xara

Regards

okay, I see.
thanks!

last question- is it right to say: everything, that could be done in Illustrator could also be done in Xara (maybe on other ways, but with the ame result)?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Holger

okay, I see.
thanks!

last question- is it right to say: everything, that could be done in Illustrator could also be done in Xara (maybe on other ways, but with the ame result)?

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well no not absolutely everything, but you can certainly make comics in xara and people do

check out the artwork here:

http://www.xaraxone.com/html/featured_art_2007.html

it does work differently to illustrator, but you'll get results, easier and faster for this sort of work, you wouldn't need another program, that what I'm saying - you could do the whole job from start to finish in xara

On the up side I've learned a new word - contumelious. :D

What Illustrator does best is it's match up with its own products - Flash, Photoshop and PDF etc.

What Xara does best is its vector artwork. I test drove Illustrator and the work flow is so clunky that I had to grit my teeth every time I opened a document.

I use Xara Xtreme, haven't upgraded to Pro yet and have found little it can't do in the way of making art.

I use Xara a lot when integrating with my 3D work, UV map texturing, making transparent backgrounds etc etc. (Pro now has the ability to export in Photoshop Layers)

At the price either one would do you great service with Pro giving you more advantage.

Using Xara, you will have the sharpest tool available when it comes to vector artwork and there are no doubts about that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Holger

is it right to say: everything, that could be done in Illustrator could also be done in Xara?

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I suppose Xara Group Ltd/MAGIX AG are reserved the rights, and if appropriate, to issue and publish a user-oriented statement of the far-reaching kind in question.

Cheers, Anders

hello,
as I opened my thread some minutes ago, I was really outraged!
I saw Dougs "Delete" and thought: oh, what kind of answer is this?
It was unexpected. But the guy must felt really cool, writing this.
So I tried to understand, what could has been wrong with my posting.

And then I read the other answers, saw the phrase copyright and had an idea.
I read it twice and tried to translate it very careful. And now I think, there was a big missunderstanding.

I used the word "rebuild" and I am sure, I have not explained my message in the rigt way. I am very sorry for that.

Maybe someone like me, not able to write in a foreign langugage in a clear, correct way, should not aks for complex things. There are too much possibilities to baffle (?) someone.

I never, NEVER had in mind the following:
"could anybody please steal a tutorial, create with the content an new and tell the people out there 'hey, it ms my own new idea. I am great!!!'.

No! If my thread could be understand in this way, please, belive me, that was and still is NOT my intention.

I only asked myself (and then you here at talkgraphics), if the thing, that the author explains with illustrator, could be also done with xara.

and I thought too, that maybe someone is here, that have the same interest like me, using poser and vector-postwork to create comics.
an maybe such a person could make a tutorial, that explains, how to do this, what is explained in the illustrator tutorial, but with xara.

only in ADDITION to the original, only with permission from the author.
In the same way, like the following: Someone made a tutorial for Word and someone another one says: Great! And for those people, who only use Wordperfect, I will tell you, how you could do the same in Wordperfect.
So both kind of users could solve their problems.

But now, after seeing, that I was missunderstood, because I wrote liable to be misunderstood, the thread is now closed in my mind.
Now, I only had the wish to explain, that it was NOT related to any wish to steal anything or harm copyrights or anything else.
I hope, I could explain this and found the right words this time. Really.

Kind regards

Holger

Holger,

I doubt if anyone meant any harm, but was just pointing out - just in case one did not realize it.

Basically, what you are looking for is a tutorial similar to what was shown.

Since both are Vector driven art programs

- the simple answer is yes Xara can do what Illustrator can do when it comes to art.

The big difference in my mind and others that use Xara is the work flow is much much easier in Xara.

As far as a specific tutorial from Poser it's a good idea, maybe someone will tackle the idea as a project, but use a different approach. :)

Dear Holger, I think we are sorting this out in a nice and commonsense manner. Depending on how they're used, words have the power to inform or confuse, incite or diffuse, inspire or deflate. When I saw Dougs edited message I did not find it disturbing at all. It reminded me, smiling, of Mark Twain: The time to begin writing an article is when you have finished it to your satisfaction. By that time you begin to clearly and logically perceive what it is you really want to say.

Please allow me to suggest to you to make yourself much more familiar with copyright issues on an international level to not involve yourself with intentions to make translations of the copyright word, and words. It's a matter of employing an understanding attitude that makes the difference.

Copyright is free and automatic upon creation of the work. An idea as such--an individual, mental and intangible phenomenon--cannot attain copyright because it is not a work, perceptible by other individuals. In the moment the idea is tangible--a physical representation on a media--it is defined as a perceptible creation and it becomes a work. A copyright notice (©) is not required on a work to gain copyright, but only the copyright owner is entitled to place a notice. It is useful in publishing the date of first publication and the owner of the intellectual property.

How many times do I not come upon webmaster expressions like "I borrowed that illustration from a site I found on the web". How does this individual do when the time comes to give it back to where it came from, I ask myself when exposed to this kind of ignorant attitude. That is what it outright is, when millions and millions of people all over the world do not absorb basic knowledge about intellectual property and international copyright legislation, when being engaged in commercial or non-profit activities of any kind. Ignorance! Some make themselves good at covering up behind their ignorance. But, today it is no longer an excuse in courts of law in most countries in the world, to defend ignorance with language barriers or educational insufficiencies.

Copyright infringement law suit cases are nuturing a myriad of lawyers and professional legal advicers, and much more cases are required to obtain more practices in the area of intellectual property violation. Why is that? Again, due to widespread ignorant attitudes towards copyright as being a human rights issue.

The legislative terms may be difficult to the, let's say, layperson. The main obstacle to understanding is the average attitude of ignorance, though. I am pleasantly satisfied when I receive acclaiming aahs and oohs from audiences as I quote article 27, 2 from the U.N. Universal Declaration of Human Rights of December 10, 1948, which reads: Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.

Really, that's all there is to it to have a better attitude towards to the world of copyrights. World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO), The Digital Millenium Copyright Act (1998), Copyright Law and Policy, The Berne Convention (1886), Fair Use; Derivative Works, Redistribution (definition).

Have a good, busy time!

Cheers, Anders

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Holger

hello,
as I opened my thread some minutes ago, I was really outraged!
I saw Dougs "Delete" and thought: oh, what kind of answer is this?
It was unexpected. But the guy must felt really cool, writing this.
So I tried to understand, what could has been wrong with my posting.

Holger

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You have a VERY strange way of looking at things-very strange. Maybe it's a language thing for you, maybe you are new to the internet.

There is no hidden meaning there-I was going to post something, then did not. Posts can not be deleted so when I forgot some of what I was going to say, I deleted the post and just wrote deleted. People do that all the time on most forums that I've ever been on. They'll say something like 'delete' or 'ignore' or 'cancelled'.

You're trying to read between the lines and there's nothing to read!

I think it is fair to say that there are a few things that Illustrator can do that Xara cannot do (the Mesh gradient fill is one). And Illustrator is a feature rich application that has a price tag to match.

But it is also fair to say that there are a lot more things that Xara can do that Illustrator cannot do. Gradient transparency is one of the most obvious examples. And most of Xara's actions are interactive and intuitive. This means you create and edit a gradient fill on screen and not in a dialog. Most of the same functions in Illustrator are applied from a dialog rather than on screen.

And if you want to see a good example of where Xara beats the shorts off any application, do a 999 step blend. Add to this, you can create a blend of objects and groups of objects containing transparency, bitmaps, text, you name it. Illustrator and CorelDRAW cannot even come close to this.

The benefit to Illustrator is it is the industry standard. But if you are more interested in great results and less in following the rest of the sheep ;), then Xara Xtreme is the better of the two products. By far. The results speak for themselves.

Gary

You showed the example of "Live Trace" in the tutorial! well Xpro has no such feature nor Live Paint which runs in conjunction with the other but it is not as easy to use as it makes out. Most Illustrators who are using vectors find it easier and more reliable to Hand Trace as Live Trace makes in most cases define the line a shape and it is not quite as easy to use the direct selection tool to emphasise a calf muscle to make the leg look more feminine. My work involves using AI all the time which took me nearly a year to get really comfortable using it and as Gary stated Xpro is much easier to use and the comfort zone comes much quicker, like 3 months, I am slow.

As Gary tried to explain each programme has its strengths and weaknesses and it is kind of hard to compare. Really 3 things that set AI apart from Xpro is the standard brushes that come with the programme are really great and so easy to use. Secondly is the ability to import data files into graphics as I do a lot of company reports (this maybe a minority thing). Lastly and most importantly is the way AI handles colour modes from CMYK to RGB it does it well and the difference when printing is only marginal it really is the whole printing thing which is better but that was only from AI CS upwards.

having said all that why do I when I bring my work home Use Xpro instead of AI well it is a time thing, i feel really at home and in my comfort zone using this software and then I can export it back as a PDF and take it back to work and everyone is happy. Gary also stated about using transparencies which are much easier to use to change highlights on a drawing than AI Gradient tool. In my little experience working in a publishing house none of the illustrators would ever think about using the tool and because most of our work is in CMYK not even transparencies as it can cause problems when printing.

All the time I have used the word XPro as it is not fair to compare Xtreme to AI although it does hold up against AI in the RGB mode and sometimes exceeds it. Both have professional outputs with AI having a slight lead as XPro still has a few bugs in the PDF import filter but for speed and ease of use I would use XPro to do your tutorial and I would finish it quicker in XPro as a similar experienced illustrator would in AI even using CS2. All of this is just my opinion and someone else might challenge this but that is there opinion. These two programmes are 2 good vector programmes capable of producing quality drawings to both commercial and private use but one cost 3 three times the price of of the other and it is up to you to see if this extra cost is worth it.

By the way I must be thick I can't see the relevance of the copyright issues here in this thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Albacore

I can't see the relevance of the copyright issues here in this thread.

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I found it unavoidable to enlighten Holger about intellectual property due to the nature of good intentions he had in his request when opening this thread, and therefore relevant.

Cheers, Anders