the project hasn't change for one month ?
did Xara change its policy with Linux and Mac OS X ?
Did Xara want to help the creation of a development community ?
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the project hasn't change for one month ?
did Xara change its policy with Linux and Mac OS X ?
Did Xara want to help the creation of a development community ?
Hello enzopitek,
Welcome to Talkgraphics.
True, the Xara Group Ltd developers have been busy working on the Windows version of the commercial product. They need to earn money to pay their bills. There doesn't appear to be enough open source developers to support the project without the Xara team. Once the commercial version is ready for CD production, I believe that development of the Linux version will proceed.Quote:
the project hasn't change for one month ?
Not that I'm aware of and not that any announcement has been made. See my answer to your first question.Quote:
did Xara change its policy with Linux and Mac OS X ?
Actually it appears that Xara has been doing most if not all of the development of the open source project.Quote:
Did Xara want to help the creation of a development community ?
If you are a developer or know any that are willing to assist, please point them to http://www.xaraxtreme.org where they can signup.
Soquili,
this is a serious problem, developers from Open Source movement wait for cdraw to be released, Xara wait for OS developers ( else will be an expensive development - for nothing (!!! it's true )).
The truth is Xara will loose time without help, without a open developers community. The only solution here - as far I can see - is a good support ( few developers ) from some main Linux Distributions like Ubuntu or Novell. This way Xara LX can become ..hmm, an official (this time) Linux tool. Supported by distributors / maintainers AND working close with Inkscape developers - will be easy to add new features and to grow - AS THE PEOPLES WANT - NOT COMPANIES.
I will add this point to my Ubuntu community...
Hi SorinN,
Thanks for your support with the Ubuntu community.
Here's my 2 cents as to why the OSX version isn't getting any open-source attention:
I find that people tend to overlap non-mac UNIX users and Mac users. Just because the systems have similar underpinnings and they're both alternatives to the ubiquitous Windows platforms, doesn't mean their user bases are the same. Yes open source projects are very successful in the UNIX community, but it's just not the case at all in the Mac community.
I'm going to stereotype here for a minute so forgive me:
Mac users have lots of money and not a lot of time. They're base is heavily weighted toward young North Americans. They like things easy, integrated and they "just-want-it-to-work". That's why they bought a Mac in the first place. Open source software has an icky, where's-the-polish reputation among the Mac community and, aside from the the 20% of Mac users who use Firefox, there hasn't been a lot of success with open source projects on the Mac.
I think Xara could have a lot of success in the Mac community if it changed directions and instead sold a $150 version of Xara for Mac. Even if the Linux version were still open source and free, Mac users would be happy to pay.
To illustrate, I will show you what the Mac users want:
Pay $150 and get a nice shiny installation of XaraX with easy access to pay-per-use clip art and stock photos. Comes with full tech support, no nag screens, and easy-peasy upgrading for just $149. Sounds perfect to the Mac community ... you know why? Because they will never have the software otherwise.
Xara should stop thinking Mac users are like Linux users and give the Mac community what they want! Trust me, they're willing to pay for it. Just stop asking them to pitch in with this open-source garbage and start paying some developers to move this thing along.
Does anyone agree or am I out in left field on this one?
Hi Todder,
I do believe you have described the typical Mac user, as I know them.
They do not want the typical computer so they pay more for the Mac. "After all it cost more so it must be better" said with the typical nose up in the air attitude :) .
Don't give them too many choices of programs to run on the Mac, it confuses them.
A web browser and a sound editing program are the primary programs the Mac users I know will ever use. They are musically inclined and want to use the Mac as a fully functional sound studio with multi-trac digital recording ability. They don't care that the sound editing software cost twice as much as the Mac :D
The corporate users where I work that have requested to have Mac computers want only two applications. 1. A web browser. 2. A page layout program (no real software to create graphics, just something to push them around on a page.) :)
All kidding aside Mac users are not typically interested in program development. I have met Unix developers, Linux developers, Windows developers, even Main Frame developers; but never a Mac developer. Are they all sequestered away somewhere? Or, are they a myth? :D
When the Mac used the Motorola 68000 processor (my favorite processor to develope assembly code) the OS was flakey at best for development. Since those days in the early 1980s they have made too many changes in hardware and OS for some developers to stay with them.
Hey All:
Ran across this from a link, don't know this particular website, but I've got my fingers crossed, it's encouraging:
http://applications.linux.com/articl...32224&from=rss
Scott
Thanks, Scott, for the update. Seems from what Neil Howe is saying we can expect to see work starting again, in January, on the Linux version of Xara. We await such as many of us are committed to supporting and using Xara Xtreme for Linux for serious graphic design work. My main hangup now is copy/paste text into Xara, which it can't do like the Windows version can. <sigh>Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman
frank
@toddy
Yes, That's the best mac user definition I saw.
Developper on mac platform are limited because they are, unlike unix-linux one, end user oriented.
They, like me, have no programming skill for the most part. I whant's finetune out of the box program. Just click on a dmg - drag drop to application folder is heaven.
For bitmaps program a lot of verry cool cacoa and free program exist so, xara with the ability to merge vector and bitmap is what's mac user are waiting for a price they can handlel. Not all mac user have a lot of money. They paid more for the mac because it's trouble free (almost).
So to xara developper. leave the linux community port the linux version if they whant.
But for mac user, remove the open project and fast trak xara, use XCODE and program a compatible file program (to be able to exhange to window user).
Please, do not try to use a linux or window interface like in many programs. Mac user like the mac look and feel giving by a good XCODE programming. You can use all the mac core librairy for the bitmaps transformation. Just look at http://www.livequartz.com/?menu=livequartz&lng=en to see what you can do at full speed just by using builtin mac librairy.
A good mac program (not a copy of linux interface), with all the feature of xara pro, will sell well if it could handle illustrator and corel draw files in input and output exange xara files with windows folks. CMYK color and a price tag around 150$.
:D
Well I must be one of those abnormal Mac users that proves the rule because Terminal lives on my Doc and 90% of the software I use is OSS software compiled from source, thank god for Fink.
Although it may appear to some that Xara is "wasting" their resources by developing an open source version of Xtreme on Linux I would propose that the way they are doing it is actually very smart. Much of the work on the OSS version up to this point has gone towards moving Xtreme to a cross-platform toolkit. This will allow it to be built on Windows, OS X, Linux and various other UNIX like operating systems while looking and behaving like a native application on all platforms. Of course, the big advantage of this is that Xara doesn't have to maintain and update n different banches of Xtreme, 1 for each operating system that they want to support.
I also wouldn't be to quick to discount the open source community on Mac. If I remember correctly much of the work on the Mac port has been done by a volunteer.
I just want to chime in and say that I'm also a non-coder, Mac owner and I'd just as well pay to get a commercial Xara to OS X.
I don't trust Paralells, but Vmware Fusion has a beta out so I guess I'll put my money to a new XP license instead and use my old Xara X1 via that.
I am a Graphics teacher in the UK. I am also in charge of IT in my school. I have bought multiple licences for products from Xara Ltd (originally Computer Concepts): Artworks, through Xara, Corel Xara (sic!), Xara X, Xara X1 and Xara Xtreme. We use PCs in school, as do probably 98% of UK schools. Colleges are something different. In Art departments, generally Macs rule, for good reason. Xara, in all its forms, is the most capable and intuitive product of them all. No wonder (in my mind) that Corel did not distribute it widely. For my own use, I have a Mac, and absolutely love using OSX. The one thing that is missing, and I have tried ALL the other big Adobe, Corel, Macromedia etc progs, is an intuitive program for vectors. When I want to do ANYTHING, I use my Mac (17" Powerbook), until I need to do a vestor drawing, when I have to load up my PC to have the pleasure of using Xara, which I know so well. The fact that Xara now works with bitmaps and allows the use of Photoshop plugins is incredible to use. Some of the contributors here have suggested that Mac users are a different breed to PC users as there is a much lower interest in the community developing a program. Mac Users ARE a family type community with a mutual love of the technology, and I am absolutely in full support of the fact that if Xara did the conversion from PC to Mac, and sold it at the same price as the PC version, they would find a huge market for it. PLEASE find some time for your software engineers to do this, Xara, and let us know that things are moving!
One look at www.iusethis.com will show the abundance of open-source projects available to mac users. A quick look at my most used apps reveals a few as well:
cMap [concept mapping program]
Desktop manager [key-activated desktop switching]
Disk inventory X [visual disk usage utility],
Google earth [free]
myNotes [intuitive note-keeping/writing app]
Quicksilver [launchpad, one-click style access to commony used folders, apps, etc.]
Sidenote [quick, drawer-style notekeeper]
Vienna [RSS aggregator]
These are all programs I use literally every day to some extent. But if you'll notice, they are all 'life' things; things to make a computer truly all you need to store thoughts, ideas, memories and access information and media.
Where open-source becomes less popular for the mac mind (and understandably so) is for the more complicated, R&D-driven pieces of software, or, Work software. When we're working on a project [of any kind] we want the creative process to flow without us thinking about the work it's taking to do such. The second we have an idea that's complicated to accomplish with our current toolset is the second we are dissatisfied with the tool. Using a drawing program should be as easy as using a pencil, that way we don't have to 'master' the program, only master our minds (that's the ultimate goal, isn't it?).
As of now, there are groundbreaking programs going in the right direction for 3D (Zbrush), Architecture (Sketchup), and 2D/Bitmap (Painter/PS)... all available for Mac and Windows. There is NO groundbreaking, easy to use, intuitive, well-thought out Vector program for the Mac. I've been lightly using Illustrator now for years now, and I can honestly say it hasn't gotten any easier. You have to formulate ways to accomplish tasks in Illustrator, instead of just being able to accomplish them. Xara is the Zbrush of vector, and the mac community would appreciate AND INVEST in the option of Xara. With Xara, I don't have to really think about what I'm doing, I simply do what feels natural and it somehow works. Anyone who's ever used sketchup extensively knows how I feel!
Granted, the average user of ANY machine spends $400+ to browse the internet and write documents. But I can assure you that what previous posts said are true, WE WILL PAY FOR SOMETHING THAT WORKS THE WAY OUR MINDS WORK, it's well worth it for me. I wish I had the interest to develop my own software, but code has never done it for me, give me some paint any day!
I did the whole 'switch OS's' every time I needed vector work done for years to use Xara, but I'm too spoiled now and just can't stand to work with windows anymore. So in the mean time I slave away in illustrator, checking back every once in a while to see if Xara's made the [smart] choice to put some R&D into a mac version.. I'd pay ever cent.
Hello Steve,
It is good to see that you did not fall off the face of the earth :)
I cannot speak for Xara Group Ltd.
The decision to make a commercial Mac version may still have the same issues that were mentioned several years back. The cost in man hours would not be cost effective.
The Open Source initiative may have a Mac version in time, but from the development archives there was I believe one Mac developer working on testing and finding resolutions to reported issues.
When development of the open source project continues, we can hope that more support from Mac developers may be available.
I do remember the issue years back. But I can't help but think it's bad business. I've seen one or two ads in my graphical browsings on the web for xara EVER. I haven't used xara since XaraX1, so I don't know where the program is at now, but the compatability then with other popular apps wasn't that great either.
Xara is a superior product, so my only assumptions is that not enough effort has been placed on marketing, universal compatibility, and variety in platforms... and I can only assume that if they did go out on that limb, the profits would well be worth it. I know windows dominates the UK, but market it in the US, that's the great thing about the internet! But I am neither a marketing nor business major, so I guess I'll leave that to those that are and I'll go back to making pictures and forgetting xara exists :-)
There were two commits to the repository on 1/31/07. Hopefully this means development is starting back up? :)