Im still very happy wtih Xara, but I'm concerned by lack of discussion of XAML. I do a lot of vector graphics, and XAML export is a must.
Is XAML coming at some point?
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Im still very happy wtih Xara, but I'm concerned by lack of discussion of XAML. I do a lot of vector graphics, and XAML export is a must.
Is XAML coming at some point?
Hello CZHower,
How is "XAML a must"?
XAML and Windows Presentation Foundation are supported by .NET Framework 3.0 which is part of Windows Vista. It is used for creating GUI elements.
http://www.xaml.net/
XAML is of absolutely no interest to me. How does XAML affect my use of Xara products?
You don't understand XAML then.
XAML is only one part of WPF. WPF is not only part of Vista, but works on XP and 2000 as well. With WPF/E being released next year, XAML will also run on Mac and Linux.
XAML can be and often will be used with things that have nothingt to do with UI's. Its usable in XPS documents, and is a format capable of containing stand alone vector graphics.
Those working on Windows will begin to use XAML as a "de facto" format. If you choose to ignore it, you can but customers will demand it and anyone building Windows apps, WPF/E, Office, and so on will want XAML.
Your's? probably not at all. This is the same discussion that happens when people cry for greater page layout and printing capabilities and the web graphic and hobby guys go "what's the point it's great the way it is". For those of us that do interface design XAML would be a very nice addition indeed. There is potentialy a very big market for a graphics app to position itself as "THE" solution for vista interface development. Do I think it will be Xara? No, but there is room there and there are a fair number that could really use this ability.
J
czhower I was asking about your statement because I don't know about XAML. A quick google search turned up the web link I posted. The link does say that other platforms will be supported in the future, but how many times have we heard similar claims that turned into 'vaporware'.
I appreciate your information. It does sound as though XAML will be something to watch for further development.
I do a little software development and having the ability to include XAML would be an advantage.
I dont expect or want Xara to try to do what Expression Interatcive does. I dont want to design the UI's in Xara. What I *do* want and users will need is the ability to export Xara vector graphics in XAML that UI and other designers will then use in their tools as one component.
That aside XAML will likely become a defacto standard for vector image interchange between graphics applications as well.
No, in the way that customers now want HTML and CSS instead of HTML 3.2, but its a much bigger shift than that. Software Developers in the future will only accept XAML. And with WPF and WPF/E on the web, and many web tools even accepting XAML input, its going to be strong in the future.
So if you work with software developers, its inevitable. And on the web it will become quite prevalent for vector graphics.
XAML definitely won't become vaporware and more than Windows became vaporware when everyone was still using DOS.
XAML support isn't critical yet, but its going to come on rather quick and its not that difficult to add as an export. Its a small investment and its better to be there before customers demand it rather than after now that XAML spec is solidified.
Well, if you say so, but my scepticism knows no bounds. Look at where SVG is (Scalable Vector Graphics for those of you who don't know). SVG is to graphics what XHTML is to text, yet its take-up has been minimal. We cannot even export from Xara to SVG, yet the technology to view SVG files is native to Firefox and as an Adobe plug-in in IE:
http://www.croczilla.com/svg/samples/lion/lion.svg
http://www.croczilla.com/svg/samples/tiger/tiger.svg
Yet who designs with SVG in mind? I don't want to start an arguement about SVG/SWF, I'm just making the point that the hype rarely matches reality.
If you're a developer and you know XAML in detail, couldn't you create a appropriate export filter for Xara Xtreme for Linux? That's the reason, why there is a open source version of Xara Xtreme: Enhance Xara Xtreme by developing you're own functions. There is already great documentation out there to support your first steps. And there is a special documentation for developers of additional import/export filters.
Wouldn't you be proud of yourself, if your name stands for the author of Xara Xtreme's new great XAML import/export routine?
Remi
Looking through the documentation on Microsoft's website about XAML, it is still in Beta testing. All links to the XAMLPad application that can be used to create XAML files are not working.
There is some documentation about integrating with Visual Studio 2005 (the latest version) so that XAML can be incorporated into applications developed with the product.
.NET 3.0 is still in Beta and requires Windows XP SP2 or better to install. So anyone still using Windows 2000 as their development machine is out of luck.
Its in RC and will be released this month with Vista timeframe. The links dont work because you dont have .NET 3.0 installed. The XAML spec itself is and has been solidified for quite some time.
It works on Windows 2003 as well. 2000 is pretty dated and falling out of usage except in some older servers. WPF/E might run on 2000.
And what major software company backs SVG?
What major software development kit uses SVG?
What operating system uses SVG for its UI?
Change the above to XAML and you can answer Microsoft and a bunch of vendors, Visual Studio, and Vista as well as all .NET 3.0 applications on XP and 2003.
"I'll have to leave it eventually if it does not support XAML"
Note the future tense. I'm not ready to dump Xara now or next week. But I am stating that XAML will become important and that in the future, maybe 6 months from now XAML will become critical for me and many others.
If we at least know that Xara is looking at it and plans to have such an export (and import too. :) ) and if its on a reasonable time frame that would put my mind at ease.
What a bloat tread.
Xara Xtreme already support third-party export-import filters.
(See www.xaraxtreme.org for details).
If you want any XAML, then write you own filter and be happy.
I would hope that my customers would demand a website that was effective, visually attractive, easy to navigate and one which their customers could find the content they needed quickly and easily.Quote:
It doesn't currently, but it will. Customers will demand XAML formats as it becomes common which it will over the next year.
Your comment sounds more like something I would expect to read in a marketing or advertising campaign.
Am I a ludite? Most likely. :)
Gary
Perhaps you are, Gary! I think I am, too.
Somehow, the notion that in an extremely short space of time some new format is going to become the de-facto anything seems more than a little far fetched.
Creating user interfaces by storing their properties in XML and then using them to generate the UI at runtime isn't anything new; people have been doing that for the last 8 years on Linux using Glade. Storing vector graphics in an XML format using SVG has been around for about the same amount of time.
With the clout of Microsoft's marketting engine behind it, perhaps widespread adoption of XAML will occur at a less-than-glacial pace. Anything's possible.
Using my Windows Vista computer I connected to the site I provided a link to in my first post in this thread. I clicked on the image of the snowboarder (top right of the page). The animation that eventually appeared was not very impressive. Egg's Flash animations are smoother and execute much faster. My internet connection is a 768K digital DSL line.
Developers may use XAML to create custom buttons and other UI objects, but I don't see this replacing Flash for use on the Web.
The Vista RC1 comes with .NET 3.0, XAML, and Microsoft Presentation Foundation (MPF). I did not want to install beta versions on my WinXP machine because I do use it for software development.
Then XAML's demographic is headed to where DOS users went. XAML is going to be a common format just as Word documents are for word processing. Get used to it, or get left behind. Its a shame that you are so stern in your short sightedness - its like a pilot refusing to see the mountain ahead.
XAML isnt necessarily about publishing your files as XAML. Its about interchanging files with others who build websites. Microsoft Expression is a huge line of tools coming out and like it or not - just the fact that it is Microsoft will gain it market share. It works a lot with XAML, although for the web most will still output JPG/PNG/GIF. But how will Xara interact with Microsoft Expression? You think Microsoft is going to add a Xara import?
It wont for users, but it will for designers and developers.
GIF and JPG didnt offer "new" over Bitmap or other formats either, yet they succeeded.
All the new tools coming out of MS are XAML centric. So unless you believe that no one is going to use the new Microsoft tools, well you guys really should keep using WordPerfect for DOS.
That site is less than stellar.... But again - XAML isnt necessarily about publishing it that way to end users on the web. Its a source format. Do you publish AI files on your website for users to see in the browser?
Here are some old demos:
http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=34528
http://channel9.msdn.com/showpost.aspx?postid=116327
These type of apps can only be done on Windows realisticaly using XAML. So if Xara is to interact with the new tools, it needs XAML export. Granted Xara is only going to export one tiny part of XAML, Vector Graphics but thats Xara's strength.
XAML is now a core part of Vista, and will be on XP too. So unless you want to ignore any desingers building for Windows - then you have to support XAML. Its that simple.
That is only one small part of XAML. Flash will continue to be prevalent for a while, no worries. But soon XAML will be a MAJOR source file format for users using MS tools.
In addition, WPF/E is coming and will compete with Flash.
.NET 3.0 and WPF for XP will be released very shortly.
It really is amazing how far in the sand some people are. Why dont we just remove AI, and JPG support while we are at it? After all that DOS thing is gonig to come back.
czhower - you'll be gald to know I'm on your side. XAML and XPS in particular (Microsoft's new competitor to PDF) are important to us, and will be key vector graphics formats for the future. Thus Xara will support them.
Thank you very much Charles! Its not something I need now (of course it would be welcome though. ;) ) but could you give me any kind of guesstimate on the planned time frame?
There is already a free AI plugin and I think it comes with source. But please dont do a Xara --> AI --> XAML, but maybe it contains some useful info.
It matters if those people are used for "marketing info". :)
But you're correct - since then Charles as replied and settled the issue.
But you saw my Roll-eyes smiley, don't you?
"Those people" are some of the best Xara Xtreme experts and I don't see, why you should thinking bad about "those people", because "their" arguments wasn't bad ones and I understand, why "they" are asking critical questions if someone needs a new feature in Xara Xtreme.
Remi
Actualy I dont think bad of the inquisitive ones - in fact looking at the aliases there is only one that I doubt and seems to have a serious case of close mindedness and unwillingness to see technology evolving, or a need to adapt.
Now that put a BIG smile on my face. This would certainly position xara much more in line to be a professional tool. I have to admit the last few upgrades have been more than a bit depressing as they seemed to move the application more and more to the hobbiest/casual user and did nothing for my segment of "Xara's targeted demographic"
Can't wait for what's to come Charles...put those coders to the whip. :P
I'm not familiar with XAML. Is it likely to become a standard that print houses will accept? If so, that seems like a good thing...
Steven, XPS may become a format for print houses. As Charles pointed out it is Microsoft's competition to PDF.