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Next version of Xara Extreme
Hi everyone, very new to vector graphics and learning about Xara here in this great forum.
I read about Xara only importing Illustrator 8, and while being very capable, has some trouble with imports of newer file formats.
Is Xara going to be updating Extreme with a new version, (3.0?) soon? Is there some sort of beta going on now? What is the future of this product in terms of new generation programming, and what might be the timeline for such a new version release?
I've been tricked into staying with CRM and other software that was never really updated., so Im somewhat interested in this topic...
Thanks!
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
Hi Tallis,
Welcome to the TG forums. Just take a look at the price of Xtreme and the price of Illustrator (I have the newest versions of both) and tell me who is tricking whom?
You will only understand this once you have really used Xara Xtreme, but if you're new to vector graphics (i.e. you're not an Illustrator power user) you have no yardstick at all against which to measure this. There are many workarounds for getting CS2 AI files into Xtreme until Xara come out with an effective import filter but if you're new to vector graphics I fail to see how this impacts on you.
If you want to know about software update timelines you'd better contact Xara direct - they raraely if ever reveal their intentions on here.
Keep playing with Xara Xtreme and keep watching these forums, you'll be amazed at the quality of artwork Xtreme is capable of in the right hands.
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
"Fail to see? "
Maybe I should have spelled more out but I had to run out the door in midsenetence almost. There are .ai, eps, wmf files posted on the internet, mostly in graphics sites, forums, etc., where people share their half-done ideas, creations, so on. I like to see what others are doing, not just the finished product, but the pieces along the way, so I try to open these. Many do open and they are vector clip-art that xara recognizes. Many come up as errors or just blank, still others popup a dialog indicating xara can not open photosop eps.
Are there workarounds for these cases where newer illustrator and other programs are used to save these files, and I can't open any > than v8 files, just as one example? Are there a few "go-to" small utilities that convert between formats I need to know about? Are there open source utilities that convert between various vector ( & possibly raster ) formats?
Regarding the next version, many companies have betas that follow the release of a product. V2 of Xara has apparently gone through many point releases, and I was wondering then, that this leads one to think that there's been a v3 in the works now that 2 has undergone several point iterations, and I wasn't quite sure of what xara's typical product update cycle has been, that's all. ( i.e. is the open source v.7 for linux pulling resources away from a V3 windows, will v3 windows be also open source, etc )
Any other comments?
By the way, I've owned software where the support communities are quite literally like a funeral home. Quiet. Somber. Sparse comments. 3 months between responses to a thread, if there are indeed responded to. Hats off to all of you for maintaining such a family and momentun of interest.
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
Yes we are working on the next version of Xara Xtreme. As I think I mentioned in a Xara newsletter a while back there are more people actively working on Xara Xtreme than for many, many years. A lot of effort over the past year has been put into Xara LX - the Linux version (which Windows users tend not to see), but we are working on new Windows versions as well.
But it's too early to say what features or when.
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
Xtreme is still pretty fresh imo, so I wouldn't expect a new version soon.
I expected to see some patches first with that add to the program (like the svg export that Xara are working on, bugfixes etc.), and maybe a whole new version after x years?
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
Tallis,
Don't have anything to add to Charles comments. You've heard it from the horses mouth, so to speak.
Welcome to the forum!
ron
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
wow a new version! any idea if it will be a price upgrade? (id definately pay!)
id have to say, the improvements on a win version would probably be best suited if we could have some sort of bugtracker or at least if youd apply issues that we all have had to do workarounds for... the app is so close to being the perfect vector app its almost unimaginable- yet the bugs and workarounds for seemably simple operations hold it back... i really hope you address them
thats all i can hope for. its such a perfect app too !
RonC
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
Thanks for all your (collective) comments. I'm not used to the Grand Pubah contributing to anything on public boards! All the software I've check support boards on basically had "can not confirm or deny" experts chiming in from time-to-time... For me, big change. Almost Xtreme.
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tallis
Thanks for all your (collective) comments. I'm not used to the Grand Pubah contributing to anything on public boards! All the software I've check support boards on basically had "can not confirm or deny" experts chiming in from time-to-time... For me, big change. Almost Xtreme.
The next version will probably be Xara Xtraordinaire.
Or Xara Xpanded.
Or, maybe, after all the alleged bugs have been sorted: Xara Xonerated.
Could be an interim version, Xara Xplore or even Xara Xplode.
Maybe a pro version, Xara Xecutive.
How about an adults-only version, Xara Xplicit?
Or a see-through version, Xara X-ray?
Maybe it will be combined with X3D to form Xara Xtrude.
Who cares, so long as we don't have Xara Xit ...
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
Or the American version -- Xara Xpat?
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
My number one wish for the next version of Xtreme will be the cabability of creating the .wix, .xws and .xgt graphics used by Webstyle. Sigh... Maybe by the time this is added, I will have become good enough in Xtreme to make use of them. The awesome tutorials by Gary, Egg and others are absolutely brilliant, and even though the learning curve may be steep, they provide solid steps and hand-holds along the way.
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
My number one wish would be an actions palette, similar to Adobes, but with Xaras inimitable design and ease of use.
I've read and seen lots of ways to create all sorts of effects and various production techniques and work-a-rounds for achieving almost anything other graphics programs can do.
All of which show the immense power of this fantastic program, but (-there's always a but) an actions palette would simplify and speed up all these techniques and work-a-rounds, plus allow the swapping of actions between users.
In my opinion this would be the single most useful addition to Xaras toolset.
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
My number one wish would be an more better support for grafic tablets, similar to Creature House Expression, more customizable brushes and an option to save custom brushes. In fact I wish to be like a natural painting aplication (like Painter IX or Artrage) but in vector mode. And with scripting support (Python). Both options, if you know how to useit can bust tremenduos the speed of the work.
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
My number one wish is that I'd get the two things I've been begging for for years:
- the ability to align to a selected object rather than to the extreme object
- the ability to set the true ruler origin to top left rather than bottom left.
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
Quote:
Originally Posted by
amoore
- the ability to align to a selected object rather than to the extreme object
Seconded (Thirded, etc)
My preferred Align & Distribute Tool is this one.
You select some objects and then click a toolbar button. Choose an option from the flyout and click on an object (it needn't be one of the selected ones) to which all the others will align.
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
I'd love an Eraser!.....lol
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kandy44
I'd love an Eraser!.....lol
Why?
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
Magic Wand?
or greater compatibility with photoshop eps
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
Well there are work-a-rounds that can emulate a magic wand and even an eraser (maybe the align problem too), but they take far longer than in a program which has those tools as standard, such as most bitmap editors.
Again, such work-a-rounds would take a mouse click (or two) with actions/macros.
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
Why would you want so many raster tools in a vector program?
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
I think the draw of Xara is that it is fast and versatile, and smart. So many things live on the raster side of the tracks, that many people it seems HAVE to deal with raster images-- old logos, photography, scans, catalog items, albums, etc-- that they enjoy the bitmap features built into the program.
Xara has ALREADY built in more bitmap features into the program, we can ask them why they did it as well. All I can say is Im happy that I dont need to open up photosop. I have 1.25GB RAM and a 3000MHZ processor, and although PS works fine, it sucks down ram and slows me down, so subconciously I just dont like to click in the icon really... :D . Xara open in a flash and I enjoy not leaving it.....
Anyway, you know more about this than I do, but at least I can give a newcomer's perspective.
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
Well the magic wand and eraser are both very useful and intuitive.
If you create a line drawing in Xara with many areas enclosed by overlapping lines, it is perfectly possible to create solid objects for the enclosed spaces (all at the same time) and keep the lines as individual objects, but that takes much longer and is more complex than selecting the areas with a magic wand.
The operaton can be automated with a macro/action, as can many other useful techniques or repetitive tasks.
I often need to apply clipview and export a series of layers from a single drawing. It would be great if one action hid all the other layers, selected all objects in the layer to be saved, applied clipview, set the export options and saved the layer.
And this is a relatively simple example, I use actions in Photoshop extensively, they must save me hours of repetitive work everyday.
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
Some previous whislists in this forum (also interesting for Xara's business competition):
I'm not sure, if there are enough developers available to implement all the wishes (the last version of Xara Xtreme for Windows was released 2005).
Regards,
Remi
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tallis
I think the draw of Xara is that it is fast and versatile, and smart. So many things live on the raster side of the tracks, that many people it seems HAVE to deal with raster images-- old logos, photography, scans, catalog items, albums, etc-- that they enjoy the bitmap features built into the program.
Anyway, you know more about this than I do, but at least I can give a newcomer's perspective.
I still donīt understand why are people trying to work, and request more features to work with, raster images in Xara Xtreme being the program a vector application...
I know itīs intuitive and easy to learn but that shouldnīt be a reason to use it as a raster/bitmap editing program. And even less to bloat it with tons of raster editing features.
Thereīs plenty of image editing programs out there, very powerfull (Photoshop), easy to use (Corel Paint Shop Pro), and even free (the GIMP) that not only have all those requested features and more, as well as some vector tools, for precise selection and manipulation of pixels.
So, why not use those instead?
If what people want is mainly work with raster images, then use an image editing application and take advantage of the vector tools included in the software.
If they prefer work with illustration/drawing then just pick a vector application with some basic/complementary raster features. Something that Xara already have.
Why trying to deeply mix features of diferent types of applications with diferent goals and purposes in one same application?
Vector drawings are supposed to be resolution independent (scalable) and precise while bitmap/raster images are resolution dependent (not scalable). So whatīs the point in mixing both types of images and loosing some of their advantages?
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
At Last Somebody On My Wavelength!!!!
:D
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
Well, why shouldn't people request the tools they want? I don't go for the purest principle that says this is what it is, take it or leave it.
Software producers need to respond to their market, just like we all do.
As for the difference between bitmap and vector programs, vector programs are far superior in their output, this cannot be denied, but many of the tools in a bitmap/paint program are more efficient and intuitive. Why not emulate those tools and bring more people into using vector programs?
I understand fully the desire to keep Xara's simple interface and not overload it with 'extras' that would only be used by a few. I (for instance) have only asked for one feature, an actions palette.
As I have said, Xara is capable of emulating many of the tools being asked for and more, but those 'work-a-rounds' tend to be comparatively slow and complex operations.
An actions palette, similar to Adobes, would automate such tasks and other repetitive tasks as well. At the moment I use a third party macro recorder, but that is far from being the ideal solution.
Add, to that increased functionality, the ability to swap actions with other users and it becomes very exciting indeed. There are literally millions of actions available for Photoshop (free) online and that extends that programs capabilities enormously.
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
In Photoshop they have some vector tools, but when you use a rastor tool it informs you that the vector will have to be converted to a rastor layer.
The same would hold true for those type of tools to work in Xara. That would lose the advantages of the vector format for that project.
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
I think the botom line is that the product is already touted and advertised as on ethat can handle bitmaps as well, and it has "powerful" tools and plugin capabilities to handle raster as well as vector. I would assume that this decision came-- to include these features-- precisely due to market reasearch indicating that many people would like some raster capabilities so they would not have to keep leaving Xara to do work and then returning to add some vector items.
So if the product was designed to be equipped with exactly these type of non-vector features, why yearn for the continued exclusion of an updated set of these bitmap features?
I now that a statistics app will never be a 3D drawing program, and shouldn't. I'm only a doctor, not a physician....
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
The problem is that there comes a time when a trade off has to take place. To add those features that raster users want, then some vector features would become difficult or impossible to implement.
Why change an excellent program to make it become a mediocre program that tries to do too much. There are already enough of those available.
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
Personally, I think new graphic programs will make no further difference between vector and pixel tools. A modern graphic editor has to be able to deliver state of the art vector tools and also integrated bitmap manipulating tools in one programme.
But I think, we all know the advantages of vector drawings and therefore we love to see new vector-based functions in Xara Xtreme (I would say, that enhanced text-editing functions are also vector-based functions).
Xara Ltd. is in a great position: There is a strong community here in this forum, which offers a free support for Xara Xtreme. Therefore, the developers are able to concentrate on developing further functions to enhance Xara Xtreme (and I believe, they have already done this and we will notice this in the next days...).
Regards,
Remi
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Big Frank
At Last Somebody On My Wavelength!!!!
:D
You are not alone. You are not alone. You are not alone. :D
I've been using Xara since it took up 10mb on my hard drive and still did everything I needed graphics-wise except for screen captures and some minor bitmap manipulation (mostly replacing text in said captures). I want it to stay fast, lean and mean (ok, fast, lean and user-friendly ;)).
As for some raster tools being more intuitive, I have to ask "intuitive to whom?" Not to me. Guess I'm just a vector girl at heart.
Please, let's not bloat our beloved Xara. Lard has never been known as a health food -- for people or applications.
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Soquili
Why change an excellent program to make it become a mediocre program that tries to do too much. There are already enough of those available.
Hear, hear!
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
MarkMyWords and others: what iīve said is just my point of view regarding this subject. Peolple are free to request whatever they desire, iīm just a Xara user like you and all here. Thatīs not the question.
What i meant with my last post is that a generic application that can do all stuff (raster/vector in this case) isnīt necessary better that one specialized in just one area.
In an extreme situation if all software producers expanded the range of funcionality of their applications to their fullest, we will probably end with lots of slow and bloated applications doing basically all the same functions without one being better or offering something unique than the others.
What really makes the software interesting, competitive and rich is the variety of workflows, concepts and approaches that are being explored by the software houses and in last instance by their users.
Xara Xtreme is (to my eyes) one of that specialized tools in the vector arena that offer something really unique that you will not find in any other vector application software: itīs insanely fast; itīs interactive approach of the tools is unique and both contribute to get an immediate feedback while you are working. Resuming it doesnīt break your workflow.
While some people may look at it as an application that lacks some advanced bitmap editing functions (thatīs not Xara Xtreme goal anyway), i and iīm sure some more users look at it as an advanced vector application with an enourmous potencial in the vector field to be explored. And that is what makes Xara Xtreme diferent from other software solutions. And thatīs the reason i use it.
So instead of making it generic and bloated with bitmap/raster functions similar to other generic software laying around why not improve the areas where it already excels and where it can really make the diference to the competition?
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Soquili
In Photoshop they have some vector tools, but when you use a rastor tool it informs you that the vector will have to be converted to a rastor layer.
The same would hold true for those type of tools to work in Xara. That would lose the advantages of the vector format for that project.
Well, actually I didn't say I want Xara to have 'bitmap tools', I'm pretty sure I can create anything in Xara (as a vector image) that I can in Photoshop (as a bitmap) and the output of Xara is in my opinion far superior.
What I'm after are easy ways to emulate the efficiency and intuitive way bitmap tools work, the ability to do that would open up the program to a vastly larger number of potential users.
For instance, I can 'mask' areas of a Xara image so that paint is only applied in areas I want (with a hard edge if needed to the masked area) regardless of it overlapping several objects, which is one thing that makes illustration much easier and more intuitive for me, but that technique involves far more steps (and a bit more lateral thinking) than in a bitmap program.
There is absolutely no reason why some tools similar to those in a bitmap program cannot be included in a vector program, I think Flash has a magic wand.
Having said that, I do understand that a large part of Xaras appeal is it's simple and clean interface. Since it is possible to emulate some bitmap tools with work-a-rounds, an action palette seems to me to be the perfect solution. It wouldn't be difficult to include a collection of actions that emulate bitmap tools in the Xara 'bundle'. Those who don't want them need never load those actions. The only real additon to the interface would be the Action palette, which I am sure would be of use to almost all users.
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
Quote:
Originally Posted by
remi
Personally, I think new graphic programs will make no further difference between vector and pixel tools. A modern graphic editor has to be able to deliver state of the art vector tools and also integrated bitmap manipulating tools in one programme.
Remi
Microsoft already did thatwith their new acrylic software allowing to work with vector layers as well as raster layers. However due to the diferent nature of the bitmap layers versus vector layers you will end up with a non scalable image, since the bitmap parts of the image are not scalable.
Macromedia Fireworks takes a diferent way: itīs an hibrid approach, using vectors to control the objects but rendering them in realtime as bitmaps (rasterising). So the end images keep their scalability (unless you use any bitmap as texture or something else but thatīs another story).
This is great for creating graphical users interfaces, icons and anything else that will show up on a screen however the vector tools are less versatile than those provided by Xara, and is inadequate for print work.
So thereīs really no way to mix raster and vector objects while keeping the scalability of the final image due to the diferent nature of the representation
of those two types.
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Miguel B.
So thereīs really no way to mix raster and vector objects while keeping the scalability of the final image due to the diferent nature of the representation of those two types.
Oh yes, there is a way and Xara Xtreme is already able to handle vectors and bitmaps in only one drawing without the need to create vector/bitmap layers.
Whenever you create a vector shape with Xara Xtreme together with a shadow Xara Xtreme creates a combination of vector shape and bitmap (shadow).
And there are a lot of other functions which works as vector/bitmap integrated function (for example a vector shape with a bitmap fill).
The only problem is, that some of the bitmap functions like Crop, Red Eye Removal, 3D Bump Map, Bitmap enhancement functions (Brightness, Saturation, Contrast and Blur/Sharpen) aren't integrated in the Xara Xtreme tools, but outsourced to the Xara Picture Editor.
But Xara Xtreme is already able to handle vectors and bitmaps and if you use Bitmaps with high resolutions, there is no problem to print these vector/bitmap combinations.
Remi
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
"some vector features would become difficult or impossible to implement."
That's what software engineering has been about from day one! Tradeoffs, yes, to be sure. But also achieving what was previously impossible.
Oftentimes, if you think it can't be done, or if you think it can be done, you're right... :cool:
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
Remi, iīm aware that Xara renders some objects as bitmap (bevels, shadows etc) but those are generated in realtime and are attached to a shape. You arenīt really able to edit them as bitmaps (at a pixel level) because you donīt have direct control over them (you can only manage the shapes they are attached to). If you convert them to editable shapes you end with one bitmap rendered at the dpi specified in the Xara Xtreme options. Resuming those bitmaps are being driven by their correspondent shapes (and redrawn when needed) but thatīs not what i was talking about. Iīm talking about direct pixel level edition inside a vector program while keeping scalability.
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Re: Next version of Xara Extreme
"Because something can be done is not a reason that it should be done"
Surely many things can be changed about Xara, but would it make the program better than it is. Simply "because I would rather have all the tools in one program" is not an adequate answer.
Corel and Adobe have added new features as people have requested them. Have they made a better product? Many people believe they are the best product. For those people it may be. I personally don't find them to fit my work style.
Changes were made between Xara Xđ and Xara Xtreme. There are some users that have not upgraded to Xtreme because the features they need are not available. Was the trade off worth it for them? Obviously not.
Will future trade offs make the program less desirable for current users?
Will the people requesting changes find they no longer need that feature as they become more comfortable with the way the program works without it?
I'm not opposed to new features. The Action Scripts would be a nice addition. I just don't want to lose existing features.