Printable View
I use inkjet printers for my printing output.
That being said, which color mode should I be using, HSV, RGB, or CMYK for my in-house work (brochures, flyers)?
And would this change for editing/printing digital photos (jobsite photos)?
And once I set that color mode does Xara Xtreme send it to my printer in that mode or do I need to follow up with by making some setting in the print dialog?
What are your thoughts/suggestions?
Thank-you,
mg
Hi MG,
I'm not sure about anyone else, but I use my HP inkjet printer and get very good result working in RGB mode. The HP drivers adjust so the output from the printer is about the same as what I see on screen. I do not have the simulate printer colours selected.
I have also a HP ptinter, a photosmart 7350, does the same apply asQuote:
Originally Posted by Soquili
far as you know? Haven`t printed yet, but it would be nice to know
when I start doing it.
The best way to find out is to try it out.
That said, CMYK and HSV are just ways of mixing colors. So in essence a color mixed in CMYK and the same color specified in HSV and RGB are the same.
Xara displays colors in RGB mode. So ultimately no matter what color model you use, it is going to be RGB.
I print from an HP DeskJet printer in RGB mode and everything looks very good. And my color printed form the DeskJet is pretty accurate comparted with the same image or file printed by a commercial printer with a CMYK printing press. The exception is the deskjet colors are a little more vibrant.
If you are going to have something printed in CMYK by a commercial printer then you should be veiwing your colors in Simulate Printer Color mode (Window > Show Printer Colors > Simulate Print Colors).
This mutes all the colors you see in Xara and makes them look dull and darker. But this mode is more accurate to the limited gamut of CMYK printing.
Gary
Thanks for the extra info.Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpriester
I`ll try printing something as soon as I get new inktcartridges,
these are almost empty, but not yet used for xara pictures I made.
And I`ll try that mode and see what it does to the colors, on some
of my pictures, thanks again.
That is not strictly true Gary. HSV and RGB are basically the same model. But CMYK colors are an entirely different model and way of specifying colors. CMYK colors are the same as the printer uses (they have CMYK inks) and when you specify a given CMYK value, the exact percentages you specify are passed to the printer. This allows you to use Pantone colors that specify an exact CMYK mix and you'll get a very close match when you print (although inkjet printers vary).Quote:
Xara displays colors in RGB mode. So ultimately no matter what color model you use, it is going to be RGB.
However it is true to say that Xara uses RGB colors when using any transparency effect, and that includes feathering and shadows, and this mean if you have an exact CMYK colour and want to reproduce it exactly, then do not use transparency effects on that object.
Of all the color models HSV is a much more intuitive way of using and picking colours which is why we default to that on Xara Xtreme now. It has the benefit that you can pick a hue, and then see all possible shades of that hue to pick from.
So our recommendation is simple: use HSV colors for everything UNLESS you have a specific CMYK colour value you need to reproduce. There is little value in using the RGB colour picker, especially since on the HSV picker you can enter #RGB numbers anyway.
Thank-you so much. That is exactly the information I was looking for.
It's hard to effectively express one's appreciation over the silent voice of the internet.
mg
Charles - Of course you are correct. :)
But even a CMYK color in Xara displays as RGB that was my point. So if you are priting to an ink jet printer it really does not matter what color model you use to mix the color though HSV is the easiest and most intuitive.
If you need to commercially print a specific color, for example to match a color from a Process Color swatch book, then by all means, switch your color units to Percent in the Page Options dialog and specify your colors in CMYK percentages.
Gary
To confuse the issue more if your print run is say around the 1000 mark and you take to the printers they will probablely just use a laser printer and RIP it so therefore you can easily use RGB or HSV. However if the run is say 3000 and the size of the flyer or brochure means that the sheets of paper going in through the printer is more than 1000, as most laser print on A3+ size sheets, then the printer will will use plates.
No matter what people say in this forum there is a colour shift when printing CMYK from plates and the best idea is to get a proof sheet before comitting to print run, as you will need to adjust your colours in Xara. Blues and greens are the worst and if you flyers contain any purple it is really difficult to match your screen colours to your proof. last thing I would say is that if you have a decent paint package and you are working in CMYK save your Xara as a TIFF and take into the package to see the colours.
I have always used RGB space for my printing. (I don't send anything out to print, all done here on inkjets. Several of my manuals say if you send CMYK to your inkjet it will force your inkjet's to double convert leading to some poor results. And they were right. Willy
I'm not sure I agree with that. I regularly use the RGB picker (both 2d and 3d mode). This is because it allows objects to be given colours that are of different hues, but are sufficiently related to not contrast badly. (Please don't drop that method of selection.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Moir
Actually, while we're on the subject; some applications (MS Expression) allow 2D RGB colour selection where the colour bars show you what colour you would have if you increased the slider to that value, on the actual slider. Sometimes this is useful, sometimes not, but this isn't a feature Xara offers. A toggle option to allow this in the RGB colour selector is a minor thing on my feature request list.
Wow someone who uses the 3D mode of the colour picker. That's a first for me.
I'm not sure I agree that using RGB sliders is better for colour relations. It requires some very un-intuitive leaps to predict what colour things are going to be. We found very, very few people understand this. e.g. you have an orange colour and want to make it more red say. Who is going to guess that to do this you move the green slider down? And this is exactly why we encourage people not to use the RGB pickers, because we know from experience that very few people can understand this.
(And that is partly why you sometimes see sliders trying to show you what the colour would be if you moved it. And for those who live in the RGB world this has some advantages. But that means the green slider shows a red graduation colour - and to many people that's even worse (i.e. more confusing) than what we have.)
Whereas using the HSV picker is far more predictable and more intuitive not just to pick colour, but to alter them. To make orange more red you move the hue slider towards the red. What's more it's also better for picking related colours because you can move the hue slider slightly to pick close variants. That's just as easy, if not more easy, than using RGB sliders and a lot more intuitive.
Wow, interesting read on the usability of the RGB slider!
To me, who has landed in design/illustration from the computer games/programming route, RGB sliders are natural to me, so I've never reflected over them. These days, though, I'm very interested in usability so reading this was a nice little revelatation and provided a good and informative perspective on how a new user could perceive the different sliders. Very well worded, Mr. Moir.
If I'm allowed to be critical, however, I'd call that over analyzing it, because another way of looking at it could be that a new user wouldn't care what the slider said (perhaps not even fully understand what RGB/HSV/HSL/YUV etc. meant), as long as it enabled the color transformations he wanted.
I guess it's all down to the type of user we're talking about (careful/experimental, etc.) and while oddly enough, I'd categorize most/many users on this forum as careful, the common profile of an artist would be more experimental... but Xara currently seem to target people who aren't artists or professionals, but rather beginners or hobbyists (at least, that's how I interpret the messages I receive from the design/profile of Xara and it's applications suite).
I guess this all depends on what is meant by colour relation. I’d agree that HSV is much more intuitive for colour selection because it doesn’t require colour spectrum knowledge. But while I use HSV probably more than any other method, the RGB (2D/3D) allows me to notice colours I just wouldn’t when using HSV. Using HSV, you are given the psychological impression that there are fewer colours – namely just the hues on the bottom. The shades of that hue still feel like it’s just that hue, but slightly “different looking” to put it crudely. Whereas with the RGB (3D mode in particular), you see a collection of rich colour swatches that seemingly allow you to notice more colours than you would if you only used HSV (as was me until not too long ago). The 3D RGB scheme shows you a swatch where one primary colour (which can be selected) is held constant, and all values of the other two primary colours are shown. By keeping one primary colour value constant, you can choose other related colours (this is what I happened to mean when I said "related" earlier).Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Moir
Depending on what I'm doing with colours, I flip between the most appropriate colour models for the task. If I want control and intuitiveness, then it’s HSV, if I want inspiration or constant-primary-colour relations, then it’s RGB. The colour scheme you choose determines how you travel through the colour space as shown below.
Coming from an untrained background in regards to color/color space, I find Charle's comments dead-on about the UN-intuitiveness of the RGB sliders. [I do remember watching an experienced designer (unexperienced in Xara) using Xara's RGB sliders and also typing in values directly to adjust hues; it was a pretty humbling experience for me.]
When I first started using Xara, I didn't pay my attention to HSV so I used the CMYK model sliders because they WERE so INTUITIVE. Having K available for darkening things up was convenient (with more experience, I played with using darker mixes of C, M, and Y and not touching the K values).
Guess what the V stands for in HSV? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by jclements
And that V (value) ties in with what Xhris said about the 3D mode in RGB, which is interesting because I use the HSV mode these days almost exactly like he describes the RGB mode. In order to sustain a certain color in shadowed areas, one generally has to increase it's saturation:
http://www.eobet.com/temp/hsv.png