Dull reflection in C4D V6

Can anyone help me with a dull reflection in C4D V6?

I have a cube with a sphere in front of it. The cube has 100% reflection applied. So that the ball is sharply reflected in it. Now I want to make the cube like a dull metal so that you just see a fuzzy ball for a reflection. (see attachment I created in XaraX).

I've tried dropping the % reflection, but that just gives a faded sharp reflection. I've tried applying a solid gray diffusion image. This seem to do the same as dropping the % reflection.

I've tried using the solid gray image as a relection image and applying softness to it.

I think its a combination of all these, but I thought I'd ask the experts here at TG.

Turan

Can anyone help me with a dull reflection in C4D V6?

I have a cube with a sphere in front of it. The cube has 100% reflection applied. So that the ball is sharply reflected in it. Now I want to make the cube like a dull metal so that you just see a fuzzy ball for a reflection. (see attachment I created in XaraX).

I've tried dropping the % reflection, but that just gives a faded sharp reflection. I've tried applying a solid gray diffusion image. This seem to do the same as dropping the % reflection.

I've tried using the solid gray image as a relection image and applying softness to it.

I think its a combination of all these, but I thought I'd ask the experts here at TG.

Turan

Ha ha, I tried out a few things up to and even including motion blur tagging, and I fell short... Worked on this puzzle for about an hour and to no avail... so ole gidge does not qualify to be a C4D expert by any means http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

We need more C4D experts around here... did I just say that ? haha, really funny

But hey, I sure hope that someone figures this out, because it looks so simple, and most probably is, and it would sure be some handy info to learn about http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

I don't know exactly what your after.
I am using C4D v8, For the cube I made a new material, color light blue 100%, I mixed a texture (image) into the color, strength 8%

Reflection, color white, brightness 16%.
Specular, W 30%, H 98%

Check out the tutorials for ver 6, there is a good deal of info about materials, try the indoor scene lamp base material.

Here is another C4D reflection with an SLA shader.

A few more reflections. bump channel, noise, 1% or less.

If you are making a still image you can post work it in Xara, photoshop, etc... Slice, dice, combine and layer until it looks the way you want it to look.

Oh, by the way, I don't know where the experts you mentioned are, but I hope we can help in some small way.

Thanks gidgit - sorry you could not help - get the impression you don't like C4D as you preferred package, so I appreciate your trying.

Mike, As you showed with your first image the the ball is faded/ligth, but it still has a very sharp edge.

Your 2nd looks better, not sure what an SLA shader is as I type this, but I'll check it out. I think I'll have to play with the settings as it seems a bit pixilated.

I picked a ball and cube as an example, I'm drawing a complex circuit board with some dull (aluminium, I think) connectors that give a dull faded reflection of other components - so to re-work in Xara or PS would be time consuming - thaqt and I'm one of those die-hards that likes to do as much as I can in one tool.

Thanks for the replies so far.

Turan

Haha, I am not going there... http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

but yea, no biggy, your most welcome... it was a fun hour in exploring for sure... warmed up my mind enough that I actually went outside and completed my wood tool shed... so I am a happy fellow, and my wife is pleased with me.. http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Mike is pretty close with the second example I think, just the bumping could be "blurred" more... http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/wink.gif http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

The durn property manager should enable yas to drag a motion blur onto a reflection... or something like that... http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Still trying to get the right effect in C4D v6.

Here is a photo of the effect I'm trying to get to.

Turan

Turan,

maybe this is what you are looking for. Be prepared for increased rendering times!

This is a standard shader, I'm running this in German on this particular machine, so check your version and use the parameters in 'reflections'.

I have a feeling that Jens is working with version 7 something, and thus, as Jens has demonstrated, this blur fx is pretty straight forward as the relection options are available in said version...

but, said same options do not appear to be in V6 as shown by this pic of V6 reflection options. In fact the blur and/or mix strength options are not available unless you choose a texture image... this is not the case with the later versions http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

These options found in v7 are also in v8.5, as shown in this pic... and...

it would appear that the smoothness or roughness of the edge of the reflections blur is determined by the factoring of the min and max samples... if you dialed in but say 5 min samples as Jens has demonstrated in his fine example, the edges would be rougher than shown in my example whereby the min samples are up at 56... while dispersion would seem to control the overall bluriness of said reflection, and....

... I havn't checked out the accuracy option, as it would also seem that the more samples dialed in, the longer the renders take, and thus if this was amplified by accuracy this would perhaps spell mucho render time on my pidly machine... haha, I am doing an accuracy render right now, and it does indeed appear to go much slower through the render http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif and, now that it has been like four or five minutes since last seing the render without any accuracy, I really don't see too much difference... memory loss perhaps on my side of the equation http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/wink.gif http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Anyways, unless you have the latest versions, I would suggest that you are pretty much stuck with applying and image to your reflection in V6, and then fooling around with the settings as much as possible to get what you are after...

I have been fooling around with said settings for about an hour or so, and though I can get the reflection image to blur, it is totaly not near the same fx as is so easily done in the later version...

Sure wish I could further help you with regards to version6, but it would seem that upon reaching a certain factor when dialing in settings, the renders show black areas where the fx should show, larger or smaller to no existant, depending, and thus you can only get to a certain point before such anomolies begin to occur... and when you dial out to whereby these black areas cease to be you are right back to where you were before wishing to gain just a bit more... haha...

I think that Mike is on track with a mixture of both the blur settings we are discussing here, as well as a slight bump with a smoother material which will still give some sort of depth to the blur due to said bump... I tried it with the material/shaders found in v6 CE and not much luck in finding one smooth enough to gain what we are looking for here...

like I suggested much earlier in this thread, it's gotta be something so simple I am just plumb missing it.... or, the early version just plumb missed it, and thus the new options are available in the later versions just for this fx and ease of application...

Sorry I could not be of more assistance to you Turan, but hey, if you find the right combo's, settings, and materials to use in order to gain this fx, please, by all means, post the results http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/smile.gif


as suggested... this is a pic in version 8.5... so easy to gain said fx... to get it more blurry, just dial up the dispersion, and to get rougher edges dial down the number of samples http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Many thanks t oboth of you for your input - looks like I am stuck. It's hard to justify to myself upgrading (at the C4D prices) when apart from this feature the v6 does so well.

The alternative is to move to another tool, but I'm at the stage now where I'd be an old dog tying to learn a new tool.

Next best thing is to post process it in a bitmap program PhotoPaint or PS - I just hate to alter things once rendered.

Thanks for the help - if I do find a solution I'll post.

I've already tryed 101 differed diffusion bitmasks eg. grids or dots etc. but no joy.

Turan

Hey, your welcome Turan, though I must suggest that this was all Jens here... he came up with the method, that was so easy to set up with these later versions...

I still think that Mike is bang on with his examples, and instead of red ball example, if this reflection map method was used as seen in your metal on the circut board example, that perhaps things just might work for you

and yea, v6 is pretty decent all in all eh... I mean perhaps it lacks some of the modeling tools that v8 and up have on board, but for final smoothes via hypernurbs, and rendering it is one very handy app to have around for sure http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

yea, maybe do a straight reflection render with out any blur, put this into you fav 2d editing app, grab that area, put a bit of blur, feather etc to it, save as image file, and then assign this as reflection image for that final render...

... keep us posted http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Maybe your trying to hard. http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/confused.gif
Just do the best you can with the models, materials, texture maps, lighting and the environment.

The purist attitude can't compete with the arsenal of tools available to an open minded artist. Work with photoshop or Xara or Painter or whatever applications you choose, its the final image that counts.

Rendering is easy, sometimes I render a bunch of images with different settings, then I will build my final image by combining what I need from each one, Don't limit yourself. http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Good advice Mike http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/smile.gif really good... http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

I sure do like the couple click approach found in the later C4D versions though... sure does save quite a few steps along the way http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/wink.gif http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

You might be right on the trying to hard bit.

Here is one of the cards I created.


Turan

hey hey, looks great Turan http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

and it looks like you got the reflection happening http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

What were the settings, and did you stick with v6?

Reflection droped to 19%

Specular width 60% Height 80%

The colour was 80% Brightness white with a matalic gray/white repeating fill done in XaraX.

I still think it is too sharp and I think a lot had to do with the lighting!

But as Mike pointed out it is about being and open minded artist and just playing with the tools.

Thanks again to all that helped me in this thread.

Turan

Hello Turan, I did a quick edit to your attachment with XaraX1, it took about 10 minutes.

Here is the Xara file. I used XPE to blur the image, sliced and used the reflection, removed the rest, some overall image adjustment using just a filled white square overlay and adjust transparency to brighten the image, I added another slice/noise fill and another with yellow tint.

I'm sure you can do much better with the original files.

Mike,

Excellent job - thanks.

Don't know what made you think of the yellow tint but it really works - will maybe try a yellow light in C4D next time.

Thanks,

Turan