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Hi,
I mostly hang out in the XarX and PhotoImpact forums but I am really interested in finding out how to insert a line break in HTML docs. I am wondering if it's a subset character or what??
Like if you go to my profile and read it, it's all mashed together but in my profile page where it's written it's got paragraph breaks and line breaks where they are supposed to be. But as you can see it's not that way on the printed screen.
So, can anybody educate me a bit on this?? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]
thanks very much!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Richard [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
---Wolff On The Prowl---
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Hi,
I mostly hang out in the XarX and PhotoImpact forums but I am really interested in finding out how to insert a line break in HTML docs. I am wondering if it's a subset character or what??
Like if you go to my profile and read it, it's all mashed together but in my profile page where it's written it's got paragraph breaks and line breaks where they are supposed to be. But as you can see it's not that way on the printed screen.
So, can anybody educate me a bit on this?? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]
thanks very much!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Richard [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
---Wolff On The Prowl---
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Start a paragraph with <p>, end it with </p> and force a line break with <br> (or <br /> if it's XHTML). [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Peter
Peat Stack or Pete's Tack?
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could you please look at my profile and tell me why this is not working?? I'm using it as a way to work with this coding stuff for the moment untill I understand this very basic thing.
A client that was just in for a hair cut and works in the industry gave me the same information but added in that certain sites software will wipe out any blank areas so it makes it hard to see if something like this is working correctly.
So if you looked at what I did then tell me what I'm doing wrong I would be very appreciative. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Thanks very much!
Richard [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
---Wolff On The Prowl---
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Richard check out my profile, and voila... it's my signature...
whoa, don't really know what happened there but... we should be ok now... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif[/img]
hi there
how are you</p>
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RAMWolff:
could you please look at my profile and tell me why this is not working??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Unfortunately, HTML appears to have been disabled for the profiles. So when you type <p>, it's being converted to the entities you'd use (&lt;p&gt;) to display the code and not to run it!
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>So if you looked at what I did then tell me what I'm doing wrong I would be very appreciative. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry, but it's nothing you've done! You've effectively been offered the 'Disable HTML' option from the bulletin board without the checkbox!
Peter
Peat Stack or Pete's Tack?
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Force a line break with <br> and a new paragraph with <p>.
Forget </b> and <p/>. Those don't apply to HTML.
Gidgit, that closing </p> tag isn't necessary, is it? (There is no closing </p> tag in HTML 4.0.) Is that usage specific to this forum?
Oops, I typed <b> instead of <br>. Its late. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
http://talkgraphics.infopop.net/1/Op...&ul=1101906325
Why, I’m afraid I can’t explain myself, sir, because I’m not myself, you know...
- Lewis Carroll
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Yea, Pete is right... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Though I believe html works through the posts themselves.... in the reply box does it read HTML is on?
I will type this in one long line using html to check this out
we should now be on the second line
third line etc...</p>
I then hit enter and then proceed, there should now be a space between paragraphs here</p>
hi there
how are you</p>
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This has got to be the funniest bumbling thread I have ever been a part of... hahaha... too funny [beer chugs to Richard,Pete,Dale, and the rest of you happy viewers]
Anyhoo, Richard, just practice through the posts if ya have that option... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
[This message was edited by gidgit on November 16, 2002 at 17:48.]
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Starting to touch on a few of my pet topics here...
True, some end tags such as </p> can be omitted in HTML, but I'd always use them because it's good practice to do so and they're required in XHTML.
Technically, <em> (for emphasis) and <strong> (for strong!) are better than the more common <i> (for italic) and <b> (for bold) because the latter pair represent presentational rather than structural markup and are therefore meaningless in some user contexts (eg browsers for the blind).
Peter
Peat Stack or Pete's Tack?
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I use em because my WYSIWYG editor puts them there hahaha [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Hi Peter, could you tell us some more re- browser's for the blind... are we talking speach recognition tech here?
thanx in advance [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
hi there
how are you</p>
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[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Hey Peter, not understanding this:
hmmmm, it converted it to something else, and if I put in the parentheses it just disappears!! interesting!! and it did it again. What is this magic?? This HTML stuff, I am really [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]
Gidget, I got the line from your profile so........
Welcome, one and all to RAMWolff's wacky HTML lesson. Geeez and all I wanted was to learn a few sub characters. Is this considered addiction?? I feel strange and like I just want to keep going!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Richard [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Just fine
and how are you?</p>
---Wolff On The Prowl---
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Just fine
and how are you? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Right on thanks... hehe [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
You have got it Richard... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
hi there
how are you</p>
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Links for Gidget:
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/Glossary/B.html
(Speech engines or, believe it or not, braille!)
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9610.html
(Quite an old article now, but still interesting and relevant.)
What parentheses, Richard?
If you mean (&lt;p&gt;), I'm not surprised. The brackets were intended to isolate what Infopoop had done to your paragraph tags and aren't part of the code!
Peter
Peat Stack or Pete's Tack?
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>What parentheses, Richard?
If you mean ( ), I'm not surprised. The brackets were intended to isolate what Infopoop had done to your paragraph tags and aren't part of the code!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
So that needs to be used on InfoPops profile pages instead of the <p> (the other 'p' and 'br' in brackets disappeared again)?? If so how do I do that?? Like, for example, if I want to say..
Hi,
My name is blankey blank blank blank!
I live at so and so on so on so on.
My life is like so.
Have a nice day!
Thanks again!!
Richard [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
---Wolff On The Prowl---
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RAMWolff:
So that needs to be used on InfoPops profile pages instead of the <p> (the other 'p' and 'br' in brackets disappeared again)?? If so how do I do that?? Like, for example, if I want to say..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, no, no, no... (hands over face!) [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]
Sorry, but that's what Infopop does to your standard <p> tags. HTML has been disabled on the profile pages and gets converted to entities that display instead of run! You can't use it in your profile! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
But your closing <p> tag wouldn't work anyway because it should have a forward slash instead of a back slash... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Peter
Peat Stack or Pete's Tack?
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There is no closing paragraph tag, to my knowledge. Some books mention it, but it has no value at all. Nor is there a <br> closing tag.
The paragraph tag <p> is designed to create a space between the last line of text and the next. It does not need to be closed. It has similar functionality to the break tag <br>.
You can consider the paragraph tag to be a "new paragraph" tag. It does NOT demark the sentences in a paragraph, it only STARTS a new paragraph.
As I understand it, old HTML used to use <p/> and <br/> as their primary paragraph and break tags, but neither one needed or had a closing tag.
Some HTML books insist in error that <p> does have a closing tag, </p>. But </p> has no real function. HTML is very forgiving if you put in incorrect tags.
Peter is right. You apparently can't use HTML formatting in your profile, but you CAN use it in you signature lines, like Gidgit did.
http://talkgraphics.infopop.net/1/Op...&ul=1101906325
Why, I’m afraid I can’t explain myself, sir, because I’m not myself, you know...
- Lewis Carroll
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Hey thanks for the info there Peter... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] I will sift through this for sure... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Richard, why don't ya download a HTML editor such as Namo Web Editor 5 ... this will allow you to practice your html skills and to preview your results quick like... also, I chose Namo rather than say NoteTabPro simply because Namo is a excellent WYSIWYG editor... though if handcoding is the way you wish to go then NoteTabPro will help you along your way very nicely... hope this makes your efforts that much easier to you...:)
Keep us posted eh?
Dale, I use FP and/or Namo most of the time, and to this, they both include the closing tag for paragraphs... maybe this is considered by many as some of the Xtra code they write, as well as the space junk etc... but in all reality I have seen sites from all over the globe that continue to use WYSIWYG editors, which do bloat things some...but... it is the enviroment I/they are accustomed to working in... and we are not talking little sites here either, but rather large portals...
.... as long as the page comes across multi browser/platform friendly and looks good, then a bit of extra code here or there will not slow things down as much as a graphic that was not compressed as much as it could have been... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
hi there
how are you</p>
[This message was edited by gidgit on November 17, 2002 at 14:37.]
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for the links and info.
I have a couple of HTML, WYSIWYG, editors (Web Easy Professional by V-Com, used to be owned by ixla but they went under and V-Com bought it and fixed all the bugs and re released it) but it's so much work to look at all the stuff, I am interested in learning this stuff to a certain extent but.................well I guess I'm getting closer to wanting that site and just wanted to understand a few HTML things before I started with all of this.
I have Elizabeth Castro's HTML: for the worldwide web book (on loan from a friend) and was wondering if this is a good book to read or is there another that I should get that's easier to understand??? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]
Thanks again!!
Richard [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
---Wolff On The Prowl---
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dale Landry:
There is no closing paragraph tag, to my knowledge. Some books mention it, but it has no value at all. Nor is there a <br> closing tag...
Some HTML books insist in error that <p> does have a closing tag, </p>. But </p> has no real function.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
HTML 2.0 Specification
'Technically, end tags are not required for paragraphs, although they are allowed.'
HTML 3.2 Specification
'The paragraph element requires a start tag, but the end tag can always be omitted.'
HTML 4.01 Specification
'Some HTML element types allow authors to omit end tags (e.g., the P and LI element types).'
XHTML 1.0 Specification
'4.3. For non-empty elements, end tags are required
'In SGML-based HTML 4 certain elements were permitted to omit the end tag; with the elements that followed implying closure. XML does not allow end tags to be omitted. All elements other than those declared in the DTD as EMPTY must have an end tag. Elements that are declared in the DTD as EMPTY can have an end tag or can use empty element shorthand (see Empty Elements).'
<hr>
Check out the specs, Dale! Although </p> has only become obligatory for XHTML 1.0 and beyond, it's been there for years and encouraged more with each successive HTML version (note the changing emphasis through HTML 2.0, 3.2 and 4.0/4.01). Closed breaks, horizontal rules etc. are likewise required for XHTML.
Peter
Peat Stack or Pete's Tack?
PS Having joined this thread to provide a suitably concise answer to Richard's question about paragraphs and line breaks, I stand by the accuracy of my first reply and regret feeling compelled to defend it at this length!
[This message was edited by Peter Duggan on November 17, 2002 at 15:54.]
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Geez Richard... I dunno... books... hmmm... I would use the money to be spent on your books and get a second video card and monitor... a dual setup is the only way to go... this way you can have an updated tutorial on one screen and be practicing on the other... also, when you get things going you have the browser open on one and the editor on the other... it's the only way to go, and as for info... the web is full of great stuff... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
but, for those times ya wanna sit back in the ol tub and read, well I have found the Smart Computing learning series magazines to be very informative... in particular Volume 7 issue 4... It's title was Super Web Tips this issue really went into the basics of web design.... from step by step basic coding to how to code preloading graphics, CSS, right on through to adding shopping carts, BB's and more... really a terrific issue this was...
These Smart Computing mags are pretty good for my liking anyhoo... but, as I have indicated, the web is full of info... go Google and explore [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Have fun eh, and let us know what ya find.. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
TTYS [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
hi there
how are you</p>
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Hey Peter... this is great info... [thumbs up]
I am glad that my FP does what it does.. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
hi there
how are you</p>
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It might also be worth drawing attention to the Web Design Group HTML 4.0 Reference and Cascading Style Sheets Guide (to a saved version of which I have a shortcut on my toolbar), which some might find more easily digestible than the W3C versions. For what it's worth (so who still uses HTML 2.0?), I've also just found (through the WDG) an HTML version of the HTML 2.0 Specifications (for some reason the link I'd previously copied from the W3C led to a text version on another site).
Finally (?), it might be worth noting that the section on paragraphs from the WDG's HTML 4.0 Reference states that the use of the closing tag 'prevents common browser bugs with style sheets.'
Peter
Peat Stack or Pete's Tack?
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Gee, I didn't want to put you in a defensive posture! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
I have never coded XHTML, but that was not the subject.
My take - Some tags do not require closing because they are not open/close tags. Only one tag is necessary to do the job. That is what is meant by an "optional" closing tag. The end tag is not necessary and serves no purpose because there is nothing to close.
Can you give me an example of where a closing paragraph tag is NECESSARY? I don't used style sheets so I guess that is why I've never seen much use for the closing p-tag. Thanks for the info though, and if I ever use style sheets I'll be aware that closing paragraph tags will prevent problems. Good to know!
Richard, the best way to learn is from a good step-by-step tutorial. The one I mentioned is the other thread is the best I've ever seen, both as a tutorial and as a good HTML reference.
New Perspectives on Designing Web Pages with HTML Second Edition by Patrick Carey, published by Course Technology. (Comprehensive version is best.)
Course Technology
Elizabeth Castro wrote the definitive reference HTML book published by Peachpit Press at Peachpit Press. It isn't very good as a tutorial, IMO.
http://talkgraphics.infopop.net/1/Op...&ul=1101906325
Why, I’m afraid I can’t explain myself, sir, because I’m not myself, you know...
- Lewis Carroll
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dale Landry:
Thanks for the info though, and if I ever use style sheets I'll be aware that closing paragraph tags will prevent problems. Good to know!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No idea whether that last bit was meant to be serious or tongue-in-cheek, but I'm afraid I simply can't be bothered with this any more. Every time I try to give someone a simple, helpful answer to a straightforward question (like my first reply to Richard in this thread or my reply to Gary's query about .lk domains), someone's not happy (to put it mildly, in the .lk case), so I'm clearing out for a while to remove all temptation to start helping anyone else!
Peter
Peat Stack or Pete's Tack?
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Whoa there Peter... you can't bail on us now... well ya can, but... we don't want ya to [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
You are a terrific asset to this forum and to this community at large... [beer chugs to ya]
I sort of thought this thread was just starting to become very informative indeed... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Ya know, debating this and that in such a forum setting is par for the course and is what the forums are for... to share, to interact and to become the wiser because of the info shared... and thanks to you we have each taken with us some terrific info here...
I doubt that Dale meant anything negative, in fact he is one of several here at TG that really make it worth while sticking around... ya don't always have to agree with him, or even agree to disagree... just know that he has a kindly spirit that has provoked many thoughts through out the community and I for one take my hat off to him... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
I have the same feelings about you there Peter... coming out to voice an opinion and or to share some wisdom with us... hey cool... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
So in closing, well hey, if ya need some time off to play a round or two of Golf, or catch a mess of fish...have at er... and enjoy yourself ok ?
Looking forward to seeing more of your Scottish mug around here real soon like.. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Cheers
James (aka Gidgit) [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
hi there
how are you</p>
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I'm very sorry this has gotten to the point of overwhelming and distastful to you, but I don't apologize for really appreciating the information that you have bestowed upon us. I know that you are very well informed on topics such as this. And, yes, it started out as a simple discussion but turned into a much larger discussion/debate but that's how we learn from one another, isn't it??
Thanks to James and Dale also for contributing to my better learning as well. I've got ALLOT to digest and read at this point and I'm very grateful!! Rootbear chugs to ya all!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Richard [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
---Wolff On The Prowl---
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My statement about style sheets and the closing paragraph tag was NOT tongue in cheek.
I learned something thanks to you! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Like Gidgit, I thought this discussion was very interesting. Sorry you felt you wasted your time, but I don't think you did at all. If I ever use style sheets and run into problems, the first thing I will look for is those pesky paragraph tags not being closed. Forewarned is forarmed.
[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
http://talkgraphics.infopop.net/1/Op...&ul=1101906325
Why, I’m afraid I can’t explain myself, sir, because I’m not myself, you know...
- Lewis Carroll
