An Open Letter to EyeWire

Several readers have written to me offering to write a letter to EyeWire in support of the XaraXone and other content areas on i/us.

I thought that maybe instead of writing here a letter, there a letter, it might be more effective (and appropriate), to use this forum to tell EyeWire.com (owned by Getty Inc.) what we think about their decision to eliminate the i/us content areas—and for that matter, probably the entire i/us site).

So, if you feel as passionately about this as I do, add your letter to this thread. Let is all hang out as we used to say back in the `60s. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

Maybe if we get a few hundred messages, we can smack somebody at Getty, Inc. upside the head and let them know that we want these content areas and we also buy products related to these content areas. And if these content areas are taken away because they only cost money and don't return a profit, maybe we'll take our business elsewhere. This seems to be the only language these people understand.

Hey, it's worth a try.

Gary
Content Provider and Conference Host
for the past five years.

Gary Priester

Moderator Person

Be It Every So Humble...

Several readers have written to me offering to write a letter to EyeWire in support of the XaraXone and other content areas on i/us.

I thought that maybe instead of writing here a letter, there a letter, it might be more effective (and appropriate), to use this forum to tell EyeWire.com (owned by Getty Inc.) what we think about their decision to eliminate the i/us content areas—and for that matter, probably the entire i/us site).

So, if you feel as passionately about this as I do, add your letter to this thread. Let is all hang out as we used to say back in the `60s. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

Maybe if we get a few hundred messages, we can smack somebody at Getty, Inc. upside the head and let them know that we want these content areas and we also buy products related to these content areas. And if these content areas are taken away because they only cost money and don't return a profit, maybe we'll take our business elsewhere. This seems to be the only language these people understand.

Hey, it's worth a try.

Gary
Content Provider and Conference Host
for the past five years.

Gary Priester

Moderator Person

Be It Every So Humble...

I hope us Corelians can join as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I discovered i/us about two years ago, it has been a bookmarked favourite and a 'must visit regularly' site from the first day of discovery.

I began to appreciate what a truly unique community I had stumbled across. A commercial operation that also provided a very necessary service to it's users.

I cannot think of another area on the web that allows professional and nonprofessional users of all types of graphics software on different hardware platforms to trade ideas and offer / seek advice and inspiration.

If you (EyeWire) think that simply merging / subsuming i/us into your existing framework to provide only a portal facility for graphics products and services is logical then I think you will do yourself a huge disservice. How it is it possible to justify purchasing i/us if by removing the content areas and forums you destroy a major part of what i/us is all about.

i/us is not just another service portal it has character and a loyal community spirit. I do not believe that one can exist without the others. If you think that the people who come here will use your portal once i/us in its current form is destroyed I feel very strongly that you will be sorely disappointed.

Please rethink your current ideas about the future of the i/us content areas and forums.

Peter Clifton
Technical Author

"If you don't look after knowledge it goes away"

I have been visiting the i/us site for almost a year since finding out about Xara from a consultant that we have used in our business. Since that time I have not found a graphics program as easy to use or quick to learn as Xara. I have been amazed at what the program can do and have found the Xara Xone and Gary's columns to be the most informative and helpful of any of the programs we have.

I would like to add my support for keeping this site and all the wonderful content that has helped me professionally. I urge everyone at EyeWire to open their Eyes and get Wired to promoting Xara and all the forums on i/us and to give it a chance.

I always check out my Graphics Newsletter...
I file them - for future reference and
I have <font color="red">BOUGHT</font> a lot of <font color="red">STUFF</font> here.

I only read the newsletter because it has
useful information about my <font color="red">STUFF</font> and keeps me
up to date about the latest <font color="red">STUFF</font> I can <font color="red">BUY.</font>

Since I try to be an informed <font color="red">CONSUMER.</font>
I will probably take my business to the next
<font color="red">USEFUL SITE</font> - where I will <font color="red">BUY MORE STUFF.</font>

There's really no other point.

Nina Vecchi
Pixel Point Productions

What SHE said!

What is it about the internet that makes almost ALL businesses lose their collective minds? Why are there so many pathetic websites out there representing HUGE corporations? Why do so many of said corporations lose sight of the air that they breathe? This forum is customer service and support. Take away customer service and support and the customer will go elsewhere.

If you don't take care of your customers, someone else will. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img]

I cannot speak to all of the services of I/US. I primarily use the Xara and Photo Shop sections. They provide information necessary to get the full use of the applications. Up to this point Xara, for all its quality does not have good manuals for its use, and while Photo Shop does have various manuals and "How To" books it is one of the most user unfriendly graphics programs. If it wasn't for I/Us I would have given up long ago. That would be a shame, for it is a very powerful program.
As for Xara I feel that without Gary's totorials, Xara would be just another drawing program. His lessons are the key to a broader aceptance and use of this fine program.
I get the feeling that eye/wire is primarily interested in marketing clip art. But many of the individuals that use this service are artist that creat their own art and that may be at the root of the appearent lack of understanding. At any rate it would be a shame to loose this service and in the long run loose any advantage Eye/Wire might have gained by aquiring I/US
John

Why would eyewire want to buy i/us just to dismantle it? Is i/us a threat to them? The forums ARE i/us for most people and if they're taken away, we'll all find another art community that we can join somewhere else. This same thing happened when CorelNet was taken away and Chris & Arlen came up with i/us. Now, I can't remember what CorelNet was or even if I have the name right!

Just curious but why do they peddle clipart to artists? Aren't artists the ones that do the clipart? I don't see a big need for it myself.

Dennis

<a href=http://www.inconnect.com/~dennisco/>Carillus Design</a>

As a consultant in the dot com world, who also dabbles in graphics, one of the most important objectives when developing a web site is to build a community and increase the 'stickiness'. These are also very hard to achieve; we have all been to the sites which will never see a return visit.

I/US has achieved this; just in one forum you can see the number of people who come again and again, and once or twice a day. If there is a relevant product or service sold off the back of it, we may well buy.

So why would anyone throw it away?

I have been visiting Chris Dickmans web site since Corelnet, the only reason I visit this site is because of the internet-activity I can have with people from around the world. The interactivity and support provided by the general public and the volunteer moderators on i-us is the staple of its existence as far as I am concerned. The content related pages of i-us are an educational bonus for the visitors and indeed are an asset for i-us, I have no idea how much these pages cost you folks at Eyewire but it is the foundation on which the site you purchased is built, If you want to eliminate the traffic you get on this site then go ahead and remove the content and discussion forums, I would make an educated guess that the traffic would quickly become about .01% of what it is now. I assume you have a plan that would build it back up, care to speculate? Or is it that you just want to eliminate the best all around computer graphics content and support related site on the Internet. If the later is the case you will probably be doing me a favor as I will not be so compelled to visit on a daily basis and will have more time to do something else.

Only I/US knows whether the sales of Xara have made it a profitable program to report but if you look at the amount of people that visit the forums, it would seem to me that the advertising potential alone with banners ads as they already do not make it a worthwhile venture. I notice the Banner ads they have running now are only related to I/US products or merchandise. Why not allow other companies to advertise which should easily pay for the cost of keeeping up the forums. Not that I want a dozen banner adds floating at the top of my screen but what they have now doesn't bother me.

s.g. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

There's nothing wrong with the profit motive. That is why we all work for money not for charity.
So what will Getty loose if they dump I/US? Well a huge number of eyeballs - the main currency of the web.
I've been building websites for 6 years and it amazes me that we are still only concerned with page impressions and haven't fathomed a way to get money out of pockets. But that is the way it is. The subsctription model just doesn't apply here. So for fear of repeating what everyone said - it may well be that the cost of maintaining the forum in hardware and employees is greater than its income from banner ads and sales but you have the holy grail of website owners - A big passionate devoted audience who will part with their hard-earned if offered the right products.
If I were product manager for Getty I wouldn't like to tell my boss I'd chucked that away.



<font face="dom casual, verdana>James</font>

One of the main strengths of I-us is its content. Adding glitz and eye candy to a site is simple in today’s world. The hardest thing for most companies to come up with is meaningful content that is kept fresh and up-to-date. With these forums I-us has created a way for the customers to provide the majority of the content for them. Content that is fresh, new and targeted exactly where the customer wants it. Hey, you could even create a buzz word/phrase like “Content on demand�. I was talking to fellow this weekend that has had several successful startup “dot coms�. And something that he said stuck in my mind, “The difference between a success and a failure is providing all the things that the other guy thought was unnecessary.�

Mark Hanson

For what it's worth, I've not yet made the jump from Corel to Xara, but have been lurking in the Xara forum over the last few months reading the issues, tips, tutorials, etc. You remove this type of content, and you'll remove any chance of me buying anything from this site.

Joel Horn
Houston, TX

...and it won't be yours Getty, Inc. if i/us and/or its content disappears...maybe not very eloquent, but I think it important that all of us who care about i/us respond here.

I can't decide if the powers that be think these forums and content areas are unimportant because most don't revolve around Adobe products (could they still believe 'real' artists only use macs and illustrator?), or that customer support and service isn't important.

I find it interesting that there have been no comments from anyone at EyeWire/Getty. Will we just try to logon to the forums one day and they will have disappeared? That will be a very sad day!:(

Mickie

[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img] Who is Eyewire anywho? (other than they have a hold on i/us) I am present here mainly for these forums and the content that Gary has been very good at supplying through the XaraXone. Where they go ... I go.

This seems to me to be a perfect opportunity for the folks at Xara to bring Gary and many other folks home where they belong. These forums seem to have been a worthwhile place for beta feedback. I would think they would be a great asset to the company from many other aspects, too.

FWIW,
Phil

There is not much I can say that has not already been said, except to add my name in the collective pile.

The only reason I visit the i/us site is for this forum and Gary's tutorials. I do read the graphics newsletter by David Huss, and I do check out what i/us is selling. (even bought a thing or too).

I believe that the Zone will live on, somewhere, somehow. This group is to talented not to come up with a soultion, too bad Eyewire does not want to be a part of it.

---Randy Rives [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]

Keep up the good work! Lots of people use these forums to stay up to date on their fav programs and get tech help that seems non existent from the manufacturers.

Larry Elliott.....

As a user/reader/former moderator since CorelNet, I have to say want a wonderful resource this site is for me and for my students. I recommend it to all those I teach. Not only are my favorite programs CorelDRAW and CorelPhotoPaint discussed but most of the programs available today for graphics. As has been said before, stickiness is the goal on the Web and it is here! Look at the number of people who have been checking in for years.

Some corporattions seem to shoot them selves in the foot in the PR area while listening to the Internet ignorant bean counters. Don't make that mistake eyewire!
Pat Gibson
Certified CorelDRAW Instructor

PKGibson, Trainer
Certified CorelDRAW Instructor
www.nucentrix.net/~pkgibson

I visit i/us mainly for Xara.
I have been checking if Eyewire has anything to say.
[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]

I also have not yet made the jump from Corel to/and Xara, but have been lurking in the
Xara forum several months reading the issues, tips, tutorials, etc.

I was planning to buy Xara X when it is finished at i/us to take advantage of this forum and Gary's tutorials etc. I am also considering an upgrade to CorelDraw 10 (skipped CorelDraw 9 because of the forums).

The primary reason I visit the i/us site is to read the forums and the Graphically Speaking newsletter by David Huss.

The forums are very important to me, if they go I will go with them.

Bob C.

I moderate the Flash forum along with Bill Spencer, and we both showed up here some time ago looking for Flash tips. By the end, we'd both had so much fun here that we've stuck around - Bill for almost a year, now, and me for just over a year. During that time I've had a chance to explore a number of other parts of i/us - it's been an invaluable resource for me, and I know recommend it to any of my developers who come asking questions about graphics, multimedia or web design! The fact that everyone here is so friendly, helpful, and knowledgeable is unbelievable. If this place were to be shut down, an incredible resource would be lost. Personally, I think that EyeWire shouldn't take this site offline, but should instead pour a little money into advertising these forums, which are such an amazing set of resources!!!

Just my $0.02 CDN


hth,
Deep (just a guy)

<pre><font face="courier" size="2">,-----------------------------.

| Pradeep Kumar Nair, B.Math |

| Graphic/Multimedia Designer |

| ICQ#: 39102360 |

| Medius Communications, Inc. |

| http://www.medius.com |

`-----------------------------'</font></pre>
Moderator - i/us Flash Forum

I may be an outcast but I HATE using SURFING the internet. It like going to your mail box (the real one on your curb) and pulling out junk mail. EXCEPTION: I-US.com. It not too cluttered, easy to navigate, its sells good product, and its GOT CONTENT.

If I decide to BUY software via the Internet then I come to I-US.com.

If I want to get an ANSWER about using that software I come to I-US.com.

If I want to RECOMMEND a site to my friends I recommend I-US.com to them.

WILL I CONTINUE COMING TO I-US.com if the CONTENT IS REMOVED? NO! Which of course also means no purchases from them and no recommendations for them.

If eyewire closes this down, I take my money elsewhere. I will be puchasing XaraX (currently have Xara 1.2x). But not from here if they close down the special interest groups.

Joe Carney
[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img]

seems my first post didn't make it.
so here goes,
If eyewire closes XaraXone and these forums, I will take my money elsewhere.
I will be purchasing XaraX, but not from here if they shut things down.

Joe Carney
[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img]

Xara has indicated they will be hosting the XaraXone in the future, so there will no interruption in availability of all the great content you have come to expect. Regarding these Forums, discussions are continuing on how best to best to keep them running and I hope to be able to post a message here soon indicating what will be happening. Thanks for your support.

<blockquote>
<font color=green>Chris Dickman</font>
http://www.i-us.com/images/sig.gif
</blockquote>

So many people have already mentioned that I/US is a splendid resource, so I won't add to that other than to say I feel the same (I too visit several times a day).

I am a computer trainer. I teach PhotoShop, Flash, Illustrator, Xara, etc. to hundreds of students each year. At the end of each class, I have the students start up their browsers and we visit I/US together.

I push the site as the best graphics resource on the web and suggest that they come here for additional info and help. I know that many of them have wound up buying products from the site, because they have told me so.

But it is the content that initially attracts them. If this is taken away, they will no longer come. And I certainly will no longer suggest that they do.

Marcus Geduld
Computer Trainer
Sotheby's, New York

Marcus Geduld
{ email me } { visit me }

Chris, the Forums comprise a significant portion of the content. They should not be considered separate.

I check the Xara forums once or twice a day on average. I save info from the forum posts in a kind of expert system. I love the tutorials and the Xealot, and I consider them to be crucial resources, but I haven't been able to commit the time to use them for months (although I hope to rectify that situation in the near future.) That means that my i-us content --and my lifeline-- Are the forums.

I've been an avid advocate of i-us since I first discovered the site several years ago. I've appreciated the ability to investigate various graphics resources that I might not know about otherwise, but that will never be the primary reason why I visit the site. Rather, I've bought software from i/us instead of another source in gratitude for the forums, tutorials and Xara newsletters.

I'm not interested in pushing yet another advertising outlet. I'm inundated with advertising, and I can't take it anymore. I'm becoming allergic to anything that is too slick or has any appearance of having advertising as its primary purpose -- even though much of my work pertains to marketing the software my company develops (which has nothing to do with graphics).

I'm also becoming allergic to any company that becomes ubiquitous. For example, in the fifteen minutes it takes me to walk from my office to my home, I see seven Starbucks, two of them directly across the street from each other. I'm beginning to have the same problem with Eyewire and Adobe.

I know how important advertising is, but in itself it's empty. To quote from a well-known campaign, the question is "Where's the beef?"

The answer is that these forums are not only the beef, but also the friends with whom you're sharing the meal.

I hope whoever's making the decisions about the forums understand that.

You have a way with words Allison, and I couldn't put it any better. I have been reluctant to give my two cents worth in this open letter to Eyewire because I really think its pointless. When I look at Eyewire they have an entirely different agenda than i-us. They are marketing prepackaged clipart, static and streaming, and also represent graphic artists. They are really more committed to keeping the graphic process in the dark and would rather offer the finished product to people who don't know how or have lots of money or think its too complicated. There is some kind of connection with Getty and Adobe. The "norm" in the graphics community is Mac and Adobe That’s what they are being taught in school. Xara is a large part of i-us and also symbolizes the rebel, can-do spirit of a lot of its visitors on the forum who do not follow the norm but think for themselves no matter how few people know about Xara. I am not an expert graphics person but am a small business owner who has dabbled in it for a few years starting with cad. less than one percent of small businesses are on the web and they constitute one of the largest growth opportunities. Xara fits that group nicely especially connected with a first-class forum as this one. Microsoft just invested in Corel for what some people think is to make inroads on Adobe and Macromedia because of it's strong graphics suit. Xara is poised to capture a large part of this market because of its ease of use and brute simplicity. But more important this forum is a treasure trove of information, as in the post on cropping a couple of days ago. people responded to SS fast and in-depth and I learned several new and different ways to crop.
To make a long story short I am also perplexed. I would think there would be a bidding war for this forum, And Gary Priesters tutorials. The moderators stay on top of things and it's a well run place were you don’t' have to deal with a bunch of foul language.

But I'm not trying to convince Eyewire of anything. I would like to see this place go solo owned by its members charging Eyewire, Getty, Adobe, Ulead, Macromedia, etc, etc for banner adds. .And with the horrendous amount of P.R. for xara just the referral scheme would pay for a lot. I don't see what all the loyalty is for i-us. The owners have already cashed out and they don't seem to have to much of a say-so in what the new owners are going to do. This Forum is really owned by all of it's members because they are the ones who make it work.
Business week for example has a system of marking certain areas of the web site which are only accessible to members. This makes it available for the first time user and enables you to buy in a little deeper as you go.

As you can tell I fit the Xara profile nicely, I’m not going with the flow here!

Will

What is the purpose of buying this site & throwing out the attraction? Domain names are cheap.If your pupose is to to sell things-I come to this site in a buying mood.


I know that here I'm going to get suggestions of software,hardware ,etc. as it is used in the real world-not some packaged blurb on the box.


This site needs to be continued in it's entirety -all the different forums & content areas included.That's the whole point.[B] Here is a proven example of cross makerting that works-why throw it away?[B]


I came for help with Xara,but I've ended up also buying Hemera Photo-Objects & books for Corel Draw.I visited the Painter forum when it was a slow day in the Xara forum, & ended up buying a graphics tablet & I'm intending to buy Painter 6.

I know I can trust the experience & recommendations of the people who frequent these forums and also come to them for help with the products I do buy. NO other site can replicate the kind of unbiased immediate help you get here across such a wide range of products.


Someone making these decisions is not doing their homework.

[This message was edited by Robin Gilmor on October 29, 2000 at 10:04 PM.]

[This message was edited by Robin Gilmor on October 29, 2000 at 10:06 PM.]

Hey....

Have you guys read anything lately about"tech support"? It's seems to be getting tougher and tougher to get help these days. On anything. i-us has given me the best and most helpful advice on many CorelDraw and Photo Paint problems. I know there are others out there, but i-us was always my favorite and FIRST place to look for solutions.
I even look at the rest of the site and hop around on it occasionally. But this content area has become a MUST! DON'T DO IT - IN. KEEP IT, PLEASE.

A frustrated and unhappy
Dean, Corel user since ver.3.0 [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img]

It's pretty well all been said, but I feel so strongly about the benefit of keeping the i/us site and all its content.

My name definitely goes onto the list of those who will go elsewhere to get what we want if Getty don't give it.

i/us is an oasis of knowledge and support to graphics users and designers - it will go down in history as a tragedy if Getty getties this wrong!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#FF0000">robings
</font>

I've called Getty and Eyewire a pack of Lamebrains before. and if they are still considering dumping the forums they still are Lamebrains.

They could call themselves philanthropists and donate the funds to keep i-us intact. Why? Because I-US, in it's complete form, is a living library where a question is answered within days or hours. Or the invaluable advice sits there on these digital shelves for visitors to browse.

As a museum, Art is generously displayed.

As an institution of learning, Ideas are free flowing. The whole graphics community is enriched by the I-US presence. Take away the content and/or the forums and you take away it's spirit. And no one wants to visit a site that is vapid, empty, and lifeless . . . a desolate wasteland of slick clipart for sale.

I volunteered to moderate the painter forum because I love Painter and I remembered the good ol' days when the Painter forum thrived. I gleaned so much back then and the new Painter Forum has been teaching me many things daily. I tried to play Prometheus and bring some of the liveliness of the Xara forum (this liveliness was ignited by none other than Gary W. Priester himself) down the page to an equally worthy program.

I don't like the idea of the balkanization of the content and the forums. I prefer to visit one place for my info and that one place is i-us.

I just wanted to add my name to the list of people who fiercely want to preserve the i-us that they grew to love. I do love this site. But my affection is not transitive (it does not transfer up the food chain to eyewire, much less getty). If i-us is executed by getty and eyewire, I'm leaving. Let me second Robin Gilmor's sentiment. I buy lots of hardware and software and this forum would be a great place to capitalize on the buying power that the members represent (it's just that this particular public doesn't necessarily buy lots of expensive clipart -- they make their own or creatively modify the less expensive stuff --- as Allison Moore once said, the 60,000 clips for $60 dollars).

In case eyewire doesn't get it, let me spell this out. Hypothetically, if I charge $500 for an image do I want 300 of those dollars to go to buy an eyewire clipart collection which I would probably have to modify anyway --- and subsequently bill for? . . Ultimately it's cheaper to start with the cheapo cliparts and modify those, than to buy a collection for 1 little picture. I'd rather work and build my own image and keep the money I earned. Add to that, the fact that i don't have time to sift through online catalogs to buy 1 little image.

Eyewire, you can't force us to be the clipart buying customers you want us to be and if you bully us, we'll leave. Take the time to study what we do want, supply us with what we want. Then you may be able to lure us to buy a few clips but not every day, week, or month --- (maybe) once a year.

Fellow Corelians, Painters, and Xarans, I love you!


Athena

[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Dear Osiris/Mithras/Yeshu/Getty:

Hey, I've got a GREAT idea! On the web, there is no shortage of graphics forums, but most of them are littered with the ravings of sarcastic, competitive geeks who use the forums as therapy sessions to unleash their pubescent angst or gray-haired bitterness. What if you could gather in one place a bunch of truly productive professionals (plus those who are destined to become productive professionals by virtue of their exemplary work ethic)? Wouldn't that be great?

You could sell them stuff, since they're not at all shy about spending money to make money (especially since graphics is fun). Indeed, you could influence their appraisal of anything associated with the site, since their highly-professional status in the graphics world will itself improve the status of everything at your site. (Graphics person #1: "I heard about it at (this hypothetical) site." Graphics person #2: "Oh, really? Then it must be worthy of my attention!")

Pretty cool idea, huh?

Oh. Wait a minute. I forgot. Such a site already exists. It's called i-us.

Oh well. Maybe you could buy it.

Of course, then you'd have to bite your tongue and admit that something wonderful was created without any input from you, and in accordance with your own best interests you'd be obliged to leave it alone.

Because otherwise those professionals would simply take their considerable influence to some new site EN-MASS.

Who is dependent on whom, after all?

I/US is a resorce in it's entirety, that should be kept in tact.
As Mickie Mason stated "It is my nickel".It is my NICKEL and my TIME, if Eyewire / Getty pulls the plug on I/US I will spend them both elsewhere. I must also say that I will spend them both to do what ever I can whenever I can to ensure the sucess of thier competition.

I've been away from this list for a while. Could someone bring me up to date on the deal with Eyewire. Yesterday (Halloween) was the first I heard of it, and I can't seem to find any details.

Susie

Hi Susie!

A brief warning. i have some scathing comments about eyewire but it is a little bit that might get you up to speed.

Eyewire (owned by Getty graphics bought i-us if Feb.) Eyewire is proceeding to dismantle i-us. why did they buy it in the first place if they didn't like it?

my editorial on eyewire events


hope it clarifies some things.

Athena

[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Thanks, Athena. I appreciate your posting that. I guess this thing just came up out of the blue? I hope these forums can be preserved. I have enjoyed the ability to not only get together with others who have similar interests, but also to get valuable information. I, too, do not buy EyeWire stuff, and I'll sure start dropping their magazine in the trash when it arrives on my desk.

Susie