-
Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
We all know, that Xara Xtreme is an easy to learn tool. But some of us are asking for new vector functions. This feature request is about such a new vector function: Simplify the process for drawing beautiful curves.
What means "beautiful" in this case? And how could someone simplify the drawing process of such curves?
The answer comes from the libspiro website:
"Using bézier splines an artist can easily draw curves with the same slope on either side of an on-curve point. Spiros, on the other hand, are based on clothoid splines which make it easy to maintain constant curvature as well as constant slope. Such curves will simply look nicer.
Raph Levien's spiro splines only use on-curve points and so are easier to use and more intuitive to the artist." [1]
This sounds interesting and supports the claim, that Xara Xtreme is one of the fastest and easiest to learn Vector Graphics editor. And it sounds not only interesting, it is also interesting to see how it works and what kind of results are possible:
Raph Levien, a maintainer of Ghostscript, has created the Library libspiro, which is licensed as GPL.
So, Xara developers, what do you think: Is it worth to implement?
Remi
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
That video won't play on any of my players. Not Windows media player, not Quicktime player, not Camtasia player!
- Andy
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
Andy, I couldn't get it to play straight off. Click on the monitor image, wait a bit & then hit the play button. Very user unfriendly!
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
Remi, thanks for the link. That's the sexiest vector tool I've seen in ages plus it's so practical.
Quote:
So, Xara developers, what do you think: Is it worth to implement?
YES PLEASE!
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
Seems an uncredible tool !
kindly,
ivan
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
Wow!
Reminds me a bit of b-splines or splines but seems like an even better formula.
That would be awesome in Xara!
Marc
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
I agree intensley :)
Spiro+Clipboard 'brushes' would be an excellent tool for drawing new vehicle striping designs.
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
I second this request. That is a beautiful line! Even better than the B-Spline tool of Expression, exquisite.
I like the look of live path effects too.
-
1 Attachment(s)
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
Confirmed ! Very easy to use.
ivan
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
Yes yes Yes yes Yes yes Yes yes Yes yes Yes yes Yes yes Yes yes Yes yes Yes yes
I wont it, i need it, i hope it :)
That's a great tools :)
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
Wow! really cool! I can see alot of cool things coming from it.
The other thing that is missing in XARA is stretching other objects along the path like in Illustrator or Inkpaint.
+1
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
Since we're discussing other programs...
Spiro splines kind of remind me of the splines used in Hash Animation:Master (a 3D animation program that uses splines and patches to build objects instead of polygons), or Moho/Anime Studio, which is a 2D animation program.
Both these programs use splines that have control points that lie on the curve, and you move the points to control the curve. (Hash splines do have Bezier-like handles too).
However, the Spiro splines seem to maintain a smoother curvature than the splines in those other programs. I just watched part of that video, but it looks pretty nice.
Speaking of Anime Studio, that program has a couple of interesting tools that would be nice to have in Xara.
The line width tool controls the line width locally by dragging on a point, so you can create lines with tapered ends very easily and with very precise control without needing a tablet.
There is also a line curvature tool that controls the curvature of a line segment by dragging from side to side on the control point.
On the other hand, some Anime Studio users complain that it's harder to draw lines in that program than regular vector programs (Xara, Flash, etc.) because you have to make lines clicking segment by segment and the segments don't connect unless you click right on the next control point. So it's not all rosier on the other side... :)
Anyway, just thought I'd add my 2 cents.
-
1 Attachment(s)
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
now that looks good..how do people do swirls now? I was playing around last night trying my hand at a few swirls (attached). This spiro would make it very easy...tao
-
1 Attachment(s)
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
I currently use Dmitry's spxe. you can dowload it for free from the Xara Xone. here is a wallpaper I did using it and of course Xara.
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
Hi everybody,
when I read the topic about a feature request of "Spiro", I thought I'd never need something like that.
After watching the video, I changed my mind and I now can't seem to remember how I ever did *without* this tool.
I don't know how often I was battling the Bezier-Tool to get perfect curves. It looks so easy with Spiro. I am downloading Inkscape right now to check it out.
Please Xara-Team, pretty pulleeez: Implement this great tool into XX !!!
Wolfgang
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
I take it the finished shape of the line when using the circle as a brush is Bitmap not vector? If it was vector then that would be a big plus if the developers could port that in. Yes please but I don't want another type of bitmap brush.
Still it has a great look about it.
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
the circle 'brush' line is a vector [it is a 'vector path effect']
-
1 Attachment(s)
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
an example ported into xara
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
Hi Albacore,
it's all within the beauty of vectors. If the user draws a shape with spiro points, all the points are stored in an internal array of the vector editor. The library "libspiro" takes this array of spiro control points and convert them into a series of "beautiful" splines. It's so easy as it sounds.
see also:
Remi
-
1 Attachment(s)
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
This is work in progress towards an invitation, based on a rough idea from client.........a Spiro tool would be a joy and the end product greatly improved...........
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
Nice work !
And don't forget clipboard stretched brushes ! They are on the right way in Inkscape and work very well together with Spiro. All Spiro and brushes results can be already easily converted to bezier shapes afterwards. Only some little program crashes but this is a developper's version ...
kindly,
ivan
-
1 Attachment(s)
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
one of the nice things about the path stroking is, as well as the normal node editing you can also alter the underlying shape - adding nodes to the shape editor if necessary !
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
handrawn
one of the nice things about the path stroking is, as well as the normal node editing you can also alter the underlying shape - adding nodes to the shape editor if necessary !
Yes, Inkscape is even more advanced than Expression in this area. Adding nodes automatically gives also a shape which fits the stroke much better.
However pressure sensitivity is lacking at the moment.
kindly,
ivan
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
Hi Penny,
great work! Is it already drawn with the Spiro tool or is it created with the current tools from Xara Xtreme?
Remi
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
handrawn
one of the nice things about the path stroking is, as well as the normal node editing you can also alter the underlying shape - adding nodes to the shape editor if necessary !
So cool! PLEASE TEAM XARA implement path stroking! I'm sure it's one of these things how people how people wonder afterwards how they could they lived without it!
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
This is really cool I have to admit and something I would like to see in XARA, CorelDraw used to have a rubber band mode, not sure if it was the same but it treated vectors similarly. Also brought up an incredible tool a while back that also makes drawing vectors very smoothly. Paint SAI has a smoothing function for all of its drawing modes including vector that puts a dampening/inertia effect on your mouse as you draw so that it averages out all the bumps and makes a really smooth line. There is a lot of innovation happening out there. Let's hope some of it makes it into XARA which used to be king of innovation.
s.g.
-
1 Attachment(s)
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
I must be missing something. I didn't watch the entire video, just a little past cresendo part. But I can do all that in Xpro already with the shape editor and applying a brush stroke to the line afterwards.
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
raynerj1
I must be missing something. I didn't watch the entire video, just a little past cresendo part. But I can do all that in Xpro already with the shape editor and applying a brush stroke to the line afterwards.
There two features talked about here:
#1 Path Stroking
Instead of using preset defined brush strokes - you can create and draw custom shapes which will be then stretched along the path curve.
Look at handdrawn post #23 - http://www.talkgraphics.com/showpost...2&postcount=23. Would be so cool to have in Xara!
#2 New Curve Type: Spiro
This type of curve makes sure you always draw perfect rounded curves. Example: drawing a perfect S shape couldn't be any easier. The Video explains..
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
Hi John,
this algorithm draws beautiful lines.
Automatically.
Easier.
See the video.
Remi
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
raynerj1
I must be missing something.
Yes, that is obvious...
Risto
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
I always wondered if there was known maths behind the idea of interpolating curvature instead of position (as beziers do), since I've always suspected that the constant change in curvature should result in prettier curves. Looks like yes!
I don't think the implementation (in Inkscape and the other dev tools using libspiro) is quite how I'd like though... whilst it's fun to play with you have to give up all control and let the spiro decide what the tangents at each point are going to be, even which way round the line is going to go, which can get wacky when you're dragging the points around and Inkscape decides the only way to make a spiro fit is to take a detour round miles of looping weirdness. Altering one control point has the ripple-through effect on the line tangent at all contiguous control points, which could also be impractical.
And I don't really like having to switch spiros on and off as a property of the line... can't I have an uber-path-tool that lets me drop straight line, bezier and spiro segments into the same object? hmmmm.
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BobInce
...and let the spiro decide what the tangents at each point are going to be, even which way round the line is going to go, which can get wacky...
Sure, it can get wacky and it could be impractical. But a control point of a Bezier spline can also get wacky and the tool can be impractical - it depends on the practice (in both cases).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BobInce
And I don't really like having to switch spiros on and off as a property of the line... can't I have an uber-path-tool that lets me drop straight line, bezier and spiro segments into the same object? hmmmm.
I think, you are right: It could be possible to implement the spiro points within a normal path. In the end it's a path with different types of points (PT_LINETO for straight lines, PT_BEZIERTO for spline curves and a new type PT_SPIROTO for spiro curves).
Remi
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
Spiro clearly gives a much more 'elegant' line than can easily be achieved without it, sorry John, your 'S' doesn't come close to the quality of a Spiro line. I had always thought the B-Spline tool in Expression gave the best possible curves, but Spiro is even better. As for the stretching an object along a path, isn't that the way the stroke/line-shape already work? If so how much more difficult could it be to allow custom shapes?
This is now top of my wish-list for new tools and coming close second are Live path effects.
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
Thanks Remi. I used the spiral generator from Dimitry a bit, but mostly done with Freehand tool (maximum smoothing) plus node pushing and pulling.
Penny
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
Very nice!
How much extra time is spent tweeking node handles; especially when hand tracing bitmaps. The "Fluidiity" of the curves is extremely nice.
I also like the way the "brushes" have implimented the use of the clipboard of load the stroke. How simple.
Thanks for posting the video.
John
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
I still don't see what is so great about this. I can do the same quickly with Xpro. My "s" took less than 1 minute, including the opening time for Xpro. If I spent a little more time on the "s" it might have been prettier. I didn't set out to draw a perfect s-curve, just to get a quick wag.
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
Quote:
I didn't set out to draw a perfect s-curve, just to get a quick wag.
Exactly. I guess the point is that any quick wag with the "Spiro" gives you a kind of "perfect" curve (whatever that means) unlike Beziers.
-
Re: Feature Request: New Vector drawing mode "Spiro"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
raynerj1
I still don't see what is so great about this.
Then you will have absolutely no use for it ;)