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Anyone care to vote on your favourite Web-page editor? I mostly do hand-coding in Ultra-Edit, but certain tasks are best done elsewhere. I just wanted to know what people are using out there...
hth,
Deep (just a guy)
<pre><font face="courier" size="2">,-----------------------------.
| Pradeep Kumar Nair, B.Math |
| Graphic/Multimedia Designer |
| ICQ#: 39102360 |
| Medius Communications, Inc. |
| http://www.medius.com |
`-----------------------------'</font></pre>
Moderator - i/us Flash Forum
Anyone care to vote on your favourite Web-page editor? I mostly do hand-coding in Ultra-Edit, but certain tasks are best done elsewhere. I just wanted to know what people are using out there...
hth,
Deep (just a guy)
<pre><font face="courier" size="2">,-----------------------------.
| Pradeep Kumar Nair, B.Math |
| Graphic/Multimedia Designer |
| ICQ#: 39102360 |
| Medius Communications, Inc. |
| http://www.medius.com |
`-----------------------------'</font></pre>
Moderator - i/us Flash Forum
Hi Deep ...
Good question! I'll be interested to see the end result. I voted but had to add that HomeSite, to me, is the best! Only for PCs I'm afraid, though I have it on good authority that BBEdit is the Mac equivalent. It should be noted that Dreamweaver uses Homesite for the HTML backend. I use Dreamweaver as well, but for the nitty gritty and all code changes, Homesite is my choice. Couldn't do without its extended Search & Replace feature!!
cfn ... Jen
Jen Worden
Web Developer
www.meadoworks.com
Yeah, I'm pretty interested in seeing the vote results, myself! I haven't used HomeSite at all, really - didn't realize DW used it as a backend??? How do they pull that off on a Mac? Anyway, BBEdit is pretty good, too - it's my preferred editor on a Mac, actually (I would have put it in the poll, but I didn't have room... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img] ). Does HomeSite allow for Regular Expressions in their S&R function? I use the RegExp feature of UltraEdit's S&R all the time. Love it!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Well, looks like it will be an interesting poll...
hth,
Deep (just a guy)
<pre><font face="courier" size="2">,-----------------------------.
| Pradeep Kumar Nair, B.Math |
| Graphic/Multimedia Designer |
| ICQ#: 39102360 |
| Medius Communications, Inc. |
| http://www.medius.com |
`-----------------------------'</font></pre>
Moderator - i/us Flash Forum
Hmm. Perhaps using the word "backend" was misleading. Dreamweaver (for PC) comes packaged with Homesite - when you wish to actually edit the HTML it will switch to the editor of choice. I'm not sure what editor is packaged with DW for Mac.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Does HomeSite allow for Regular Expressions in their S&R function? I use the RegExp feature of UltraEdit's S&R all the time. Love it!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Funny you should mention that as I was just talking to my partner about this today. Yes! Homesite allows the use of Regular Expressions and it's a pretty robust S&R. My problem is that I don't know how to do RegExp and need to sit down and learn - for one site, in particular, and I know, I'd save hours of time.
cfn ... Jen
Jen Worden
Web Developer
www.meadoworks.com
If you're looking for a somewhat decent reference, here's one for Perl RegExps:
Perl Regular Expressions
UltraEdit also has some docs on it in their help files. Here's an example:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Regular Expressions (Unix Syntax):
Symbol Function
\ Marks the next character as a special character. "n" matches the character "n". "\n" matches a linefeed or newline character.
^ Matches/anchors the beginning of line.
$ Matches/anchors the end of line.
* Matches the preceding character zero or more times.
+ Matches the preceding character one or more times.
. Matches any single character except a newline character.
(expression) Brackets or tags an expression to use in the replace command.A regular expression may have up to 9 tagged expressions, numbered according to their order in the regular expression.The corresponding replacement expression is \x, for x in the range 1-9. Example: If (h.*o) (f.*s) matches "hello folks", \2 \1 would replace it with "folks hello".
[xyz] A character set. Matches any characters between brackets.
[^xyz] A negative character set. Matches any characters NOT between brackets.
\d Matches a digit character. Equivalent to [0-9].
\D Matches a nondigit character. Equivalent to [^0-9].
\f Matches a form-feed character.
\n Matches a linefeed character.
\r Matches a carriage return character.
\s Matches any white space including space, tab, form-feed, etc but not newline.
\S Matches any nonwhite space character but not newline.
\t Matches a tab character.
\v Matches a vertical tab character.
\w Matches any word character including underscore.
\W Matches any nonword character.
Note - ^ refers to the character '^' NOT Control Key + value.
Examples:
m.n matches "man", "men", "min" but not "moon".
Te+st matches "test", "teest", "teeeest" etc. BUT NOT "tst".
Te*st matches "test", "teest", "teeeest" etc. AND "tst".
[aeiou] matches every lowercase vowel
[,.?] matches a literal ",", "." or "?".
[0-9, a-z] matches any digit, or lowercase letter
[^0-9] matches any character except a digit (^ means NOT the following)
You may search for an expression A or B as follow:
"(John|Tom)"
This will search for an occurrence of John or Tom. There should be nothing between the two expressions.
You may combine A or B and C or D in the same search as follows:
"(John|Tom)(Smith|Jones)"
This will search for John or Tom followed by Smith or Jones.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
hth,
Deep (just a guy)
<pre><font face="courier" size="2">,-----------------------------.
| Pradeep Kumar Nair, B.Math |
| Graphic/Multimedia Designer |
| ICQ#: 39102360 |
| Medius Communications, Inc. |
| http://www.medius.com |
`-----------------------------'</font></pre>
Moderator - i/us Flash Forum
I'd have to say that FP gets my vote ... aside from hard coding in Notepad, I've tried DW, but was not very impressed. Haven't tried any of the others you mentioned.
-------
Kind Regards
Some Crazy SA Gal
Thanks Deep for Intro to RegExp 101 - much appreciated! Now to find time to sit down and play/put it into practice.
Hi scsag!
Well, whatever gets the job done, I always say! Hope that FrontPage has improved since the old bloated code days. Even though bandwidth becomes less and less an issue with high-speed cable/DSL hookups more commonplace, the pundits say we still only have 7 seconds to snag that viewer.
cfn ... Jen
Jen Worden
Web Developer
www.meadoworks.com
Hi girls,
SCSAG - do you use FrontPage 2000? I'm not a big fan of it. Granted, it's MUCH better than it used to be (with Office '97 and all), but it's still a pain to use. I'll do veeeeeeeeery basic things with it, and for anything else I use UltraEdit or BBEdit (or PICO if I'm on a Unix machine...hehehehe). But 2000 has improved to the point where I can't turn my nose up at it anymore - even though it pains me to say it. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
As for the RegExp stuff, no worries, Jen. It's actually REALLY easy once you start using it a bit. Have you done any Perl, yet? That's how I picked it up - just started making basic Perl scripts and it was a must-know. At first it was daunting, but not more than an hour or two later, I was using them as if I were born to it! Granted, I still find them annoying and non-intuitive, but hey...at least it's not Assembly Language! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
hth,
Deep (just a guy)
<pre><font face="courier" size="2">,-----------------------------.
| Pradeep Kumar Nair, B.Math |
| Graphic/Multimedia Designer |
| ICQ#: 39102360 |
| Medius Communications, Inc. |
| http://www.medius.com |
`-----------------------------'</font></pre>
Moderator - i/us Flash Forum
You might want to add Visual Interdev to the list. It's like FrontPage's big brother. It's got a bunch of cool features in the HTML editing view that helps with scripting, and it's also pretty powerful when working with databases.
Yeah, I'd love to rate other development tools, but I was sticking to just HTML/low-end stuff. Visual Interdev is pretty cool, but it does WAY more than just HTML. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] I'd put that more in a poll with stuff like Visual Age and CodeWarrior and stuff like that...although I'd love to stick CodeWarrior on the list...hehehe.
hth,
Deep (just a guy)
<pre><font face="courier" size="2">,-----------------------------.
| Pradeep Kumar Nair, B.Math |
| Graphic/Multimedia Designer |
| ICQ#: 39102360 |
| Medius Communications, Inc. |
| http://www.medius.com |
`-----------------------------'</font></pre>
Moderator - i/us Flash Forum
Mainly I use Dreamweaver. I have been using it for a long time. But I also do a lot of manual coding as well. I usually used to suggest against using Front Page because it was a Microsoft product - meaning that it rendered better in Internet Explorer than it did in Netscape. Now I have been told that the FrontPage 2000 version has cross browser abilitly. So I can now recommend it to others.Logo & Web Page Designs Inc. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]
MartyLogo
Logo & Web Page Designs Inc.
Hey Deep ,
Yep I use FP2000 .... makes tables an absolute pleasure [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
-------
Kind Regards
Some Crazy SA Gal
If you want the best combination of hand-coding environments in combination with stuff to relieve the drudgery of hand-coding, get Homesite. They have a WYSIWYG development thingy too but I don't like WYSIWYG modules generating code for me. They add stuff I don't want which makes debugging a chore.
Anyway, you'll fallin love with Homesite - believe me!!!
zitterbe
Dear Deep,just a guy;
I am getting very good with my pages using a combination of HotMetal from SoftQuad and CoffeeCup. I have spent over twenty thousand dollars on software and upgrades since I started.I have spent
about a thousand dollars buying just about all the HTML apps. I have even used Dreamweaver at my buddy's office. Dreamweaver intuitive? An intuitive app is one I can start using right out of the box without even reading the manual. Dreamweaver is a typical Macromedia product. After two afternoons, I had managed to make a table. A simple table. Then my buddy helped me out a little. I am sure glad I don't have to use that everyday.
Neither of these was mentioned in the poll. If you check out HotMetal, you'll find it is more intuitive than FP and keeps
things cleaner too. It has four interface styles at once and the one I like best is the tags on interface. True I'm not a code warrior, but my buddy who is likes HM a lot. And if you include BBEdit, CoffeeCup has them beat by two quantum jumps. And I've used that one for years on the Mac. You can feel good if you catch a trout on a fly with a two pound test leader but when you eat it it tastes the same as if you had used a spinner or a nitecrawler.
But I ain't no code warrior. And I'm darned if I'm going to buy more expensive software just to see if it will do the trick.
Twenty thousand, dude. That's a lotta cash.
buddycom
Hiya folks!
Mark here from "The Photoshop Guru's Handbook".
I use Homesite 2.5 (eeek! haha), and Dreamweaver 3; exclusively. I've recently started using AceHTML though too. It has some nifty features, but lacks certain others i've come to depend on with Homesite.
I've been hand-coding since i started doing this stuff. My tastes are tainted i think towards wysiwyg editors. But in todays market, visual editors appear to be making a surge. Good for them. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Yes... Homesite 2.5! Alas, i hate what's been done to the program since that version. I feel it's been developed in the wrong directions for what i use it for - a beefed-up notepad editor.
Dreamweaver is NOT difficult to use. I only use that though for more complex designs, that are more easily conceptualized in a visual environment. Two hours after reading Macromedia's excellent help files, i could do most anything in the program. I really like how they suggest you design initially using the Layers, then convert them to tables when the layout has been realized. That's a definate time saver where huge elaborate tables are concerned. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Anywho, that's my input. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Take care all,
Mark...
When I was looking for a good web design program , I downloaded the demos for HotMetal and Homesite and I found I liked the program from www.namo.com called Web Editor 4. I just found it was organized better (right click menu was used efficiently) and thus easier to use .... it seems to be pretty extensive in abilities (as extensive as the other two). It got a high mark at cnet.com too (not that reviwers are always right ... and I based my decision entirely on my using the demo). The demo is 45 days I think which is plenty of time to get you dependant on it :-).
David King
Hi everyone. I've used Dreamweaver since the beginning, GoLive (started on the beta team) and FrontPage 2000 (only when I have to for one Editor) and Dreamweaver and Homesite have me hooked hands down!
Dreamweaver is wonderful and lets me hand code with messing anything up.
My 2 cents
Joyce Evans
So many choices! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] Well, I've always preferred hand-coding, myself, so I'll probably stick with UltraEdit as much as possible, but I've heard so much good stuff about HomeSite lately, that I'm tempted to check it out. HoTMetaL Pro has been highly recommended, too. There's even new stuff out there that I've never heard of! I'm actually somewhat surprised I haven't seen Arachnophilia posted here at all - does anyone know if that's still being developed? It was the first piece of "careware" I'd ever seen and for some odd reason still brings back good memories of NCSA Mosaic. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Anyway, thanks for all the feedback - keep it coming!
hth,
Deep (just a guy)
<pre><font face="courier" size="2">,-----------------------------.
| Pradeep Kumar Nair, B.Math |
| Graphic/Multimedia Designer |
| ICQ#: 39102360 |
| Medius Communications, Inc. |
| http://www.medius.com |
`-----------------------------'</font></pre>
Moderator - i/us Flash Forum
I was interested in the results! I, myself, like the challenge of using NotePad.
In fact, I have a written a tutorial on Beginning HTML on my website. I have been surprised at the interest and the e-mails I have received since posting it!
http://www.geocities.com/ogeefire
No matter what Web Editor one uses I think that it is important to understand the basics of HTML.
<html>
"Ogee Fire" aka Carrie: FREE web graphics http://www.geocities.com/ogeefire
</html>
started out with good ol' Notepad, and that's where i'll always come back to, when things don't seem to be going right - it's actually saved the day for me more than once. i think internalizing the basics, and actually getting your hands dirty (like the D-I-Ys of old) helped me a lot even after i started using WYSIWYG editors like Dreamweaver.
it's not unlike the several new DTP programs in the world of print. the menu-driven 'point-click-sick' features have spawned a host of johnny-come-lately "grrr..aphic designers" [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] who cannot/will not appreciate the finer points of the good old truly 'cut-and-paste' (not Ctrl-C; Ctrl-V) [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
I started as a newbie in webdesign a year ago and they recommended me FP2000. Although it is not so childish as some other MS stuff, I did never really like it, and the more I learned about HTML (I'm not a specialist, but one does need a firm basical knowledge of it)the less I liked it. But, nested tables etc seemed me too complicated (although I'm Flemish, I cannot write my own language without mistakes, so...) so I now bought Dreamweaver4. I find it easy to use as, having bought it at midday, and doing the tutorial in the afternoon, the evening I was already making my own pages in it. And HTML'ing is easy in it.
Still, this is a personal choice, and I can well imagine that someone else will easier follow the design structure of some other digital architects team, be it Adobe or Microsoft or whatever. Congratulations to you who work in notepad, although I must admit that I get the feeling that it is like taking the stairs when there is also an elevator nearby.
ERIK [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]
[This message was edited by Erik Heyninck on January 11, 2001 at 10:54 AM.]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Congratulations to you who work in notepad, although I must admit that I get the feeling that it is like taking the stairs when there is also an elevator nearby.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
However, when the elevator breaks and you're on the 22nd floor and you wanna go home, you still need to know how to use those stairs. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
cfn ... Jen
Jen Worden
Web Developer
www.meadoworks.com
Hi jen,
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>However, when the elevator breaks and you're on the 22nd floor and you wanna go home, you still need to know how to use those stairs. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
i couldn't have said it better.
I meant no offense. Of course it's great to be able to work in a situation with minimum "comfort". It must feel like programming. Of course it is not because there are cars that one does not have to use one's own legs. Of course society tends to make us trust in too much comfort.
But working only in a minimal text progamme, not even using Homesite or eq., seems to me, in my limited knowledge, taking big risks in forgetting tags, writing mistakes in complex situations etc. When you can do that without making mistakes, you deserve a statue in Silicon Valley. I couldn't.
And therefore, knowing my limits, I trust in my WYSIWYDG.
Apologies. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
[This message was edited by Erik Heyninck on January 13, 2001 at 05:25 AM.]
I'm a developer by trade, but seem to find myself writing more and more HTML these days.
I actually use a program called MultiEdit for most editing tasks (including HTML) - it is amazingly customisable and very fast (if you have lots of time to sit down and configure it). It has all the things you need (colour coded tags, regexp search/replace, macros, highly customizable etc etc). I think UltraEdit is a little cheaper and potentially a little more intuitive though.
I have used the cursed FP before and hated it (especially the 97 version which was a real pain). I had a dabble with DreamWeaver and found it intuitive to use but haven't had the chance to look at it properly.
I also use Visual Interdev for some things (which is especially good for scripting etc)
One thing I have seen recently is the new .NET product, which has autocomplete on all HTML tags, basically meaning you type the first few letters of the tag and it gives you a dropdown list of the available matches, and once the tag is there, you get the same for each of the attributes available to it (no more searching books/online help to find that elusive attribute). Its awesome, and potentially will wrangle its way into the next Front Page, which may mean I might start taking notice of it again!
(and I still end up using notepad as well, 'cos its the only thing available on all machines!)
James
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I meant no offense.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Erik, no offense was taken!
I have found, however, that while I fully accept that WYSIWIG's are here to stay - and WYSIWYW's (What You See is What You Want) are a vital part of my work, those that don't understand the basics of HTML will eventually have problems. Finding those errant <td> tags or unclosed
</table> tags are a pain when you know what you're looking for. I can't imagine the frustration for someone who just knows that the damn page worked fine yesterday and now it doesn't! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
cfn ... Jen
Jen Worden
Web Developer
www.meadoworks.com
Hi Jen
My two cents for everyone--give 1st page a try--it's free! You can get it here http://www.evrsoft.com/
Regards, Joel
I've probably used them all at some stage ( I started using vi targeted at Mosaic, many moons ago). Dreamweaver suits me fine (FP2k is spawn of the devil), I use DW for the basic donkey work and then flip to an external editor (freeware - PFE = programmers file editor) to do the twiddly bits.
But I guess the best editor is the one that suits you best.
Simon
[This message was edited by Simon Mac on January 22, 2001 at 08:38 AM.]
Since maintaining a web site is a small part of my overall official duties, I have switched to Macromedia Dreamweaver. Once getting past having all those little boxes on your screen, it is a very user-friendly program.
For hand-coding, I used to favor HomeSite (the freeware/shareware versions), but I think Allaire has made it clunky and less efficient.
Didn't I read recently that Macromedia is purchasing Allaire?
==================
My two cents for everyone--give 1st page a try--it's free! You can get it here http://www.evrsoft.com/
==================
Joel, thanks for this tip. I used -- and really liked -- 1st Page until I lost it when I had to do a software reinstall.
When I went back to the company's web site to re-download, I discovered the program had been taken off line -- apparently because of a copyright problem with the name. The introductory page at evrsoft now calls the program First Page, although subsequent pages still refer to "1st Page."
Apparently a new version, "First Page III," is scheduled to be released later this year.
Bob
My favourite web editor is myself!
My favourite text editor is NoteTabPro (which you can set up to replace Notepad), but I check my code with HTMLTidy (which you can run direct from NoteTab Pro, and will find 'those errant tags'). The cleanest, most elegant HTML comes from people, not tools!
I've not been at it all that long, but that's how I like to work. Try it - it's fun!
Cheers
Peter
[This message was edited by Peter Duggan on February 18, 2001 at 05:18 PM.]
NoteTabPro is a steal for what it does at $19.95 USD, and HTMLTidy is free!