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Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
Funny. I have been thinking on moving away from Xara for my Illustration work and going bitmap just because there wasn't a tool like the shape builder to quickly add detail. These days budgets are going down so anything that can speed things up is vital so this really will add a new lease of life to XDP for me.
A couple of requests for this fantastic new addition.
1. No nodes while drawing but they show when a previously drawn tool is selected. This would make sketching and roughing out possible.
2. A smoothing tool so that we can draw over a previously drawn area to smooth it - Build up the smoothing gradually by repeated application. (Quicker and more organic than selecting the nodes and using the smoothing slider to do this)
3. a fill tool that can fill enclosed areas created by the the shape builder tool.
Huge Regards
Dave
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
agreed as follows:
1] - as 'auto deselect' appears to be a simple registry change, could that not be incorpoprated in the UI ? -that would be a manual toggle and if keystroke assignable it would cover all aspects of this problem I think [bearing in mind sometimes you might want nodes while drawing with the shape builder tool]
2] +1
3] since the areas 'enclosed' are actually 'open space between shape' rather than enclosed by outline that would be a completely new function I think, but useful sure - menawhile break shape can work well in some cases
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
2.
Is this not already there?
Select your shape then with the shape tool marquee select a group of nodes to smooth - use the smoothing slider on the info bar.
Attachment 89585
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Squeaky
(Quicker and more organic than selecting the nodes and using the smoothing slider to do this)
freehand drawing steve - you know, the quick way ;)
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
So the current method is slow???
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
the whole point of the shape builder tool is not to have to manipulate nodes individually - what squeaky is proposing is an extention of this
all manipulation of nodes is slower than freehand - more technically accurate maybe, but slower - the key word here is 'organic' I think, 'artistic' rather than 'design'
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
handrawn
all manipulation of nodes is slower than freehand - more technically accurate maybe, but slower - the key word here is 'organic' I think, 'artistic' rather than 'design'
I couldn't have put it better myself. :-)
The marquee selection would work a little better for me if we could have a freehand selection. As it is it does do the job but is a little unwieldy for us speed demons :-D
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
handrawn
agreed as follows:
1] - as 'auto deselect' appears to be a simple registry change, could that not be incorpoprated in the UI ? -that would be a manual toggle and if keystroke assignable it would cover all aspects of this problem I think [bearing in mind sometimes you might want nodes while drawing with the shape builder tool]
I'm hoping for not seeing any nodes at all when drawing. But yes. another button on the tool bar next to the pressure and sketch mode would be the ideal.
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
I'm not sure that auto deselect is the whole answer to getting rid of the blobs because by deselecting you are preventing the builder from joining the last shape you drew with the next one.
Phil
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
:)
hopefully both camps can be kept happy that work in different ways, those who want to manipulate the nodes in the builder tool [and elsewhere] and those who don't
thats why although the point for me is 'no nodes' I don't think they should be surpresed automatically, because others will work differently
auto deselect on the infobar :cool:
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
ok Phil
but if we can toggle it on and off in the UI [rather than Xareg] its a useful feature ?
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
Really. I just don't want to see the blobs while I'm drawing they really get in the way. For me a button that hides them when I'm drawing would be the way forward.
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
Message received. We'll see what we can do.
Phil
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
For me it's a very exciting new tool that could really make a difference to my work life. Thanks for reading Phil and thanks for taking the time to join in. It's much appreciated.
Huge Regards
Dave
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
When you get the new update later today, you'll find there's a new hotkey in the shape builder and shape eraser tools to show and hide the normal editing handles.
It's "H" for "Handles" and it appears in the key shortcuts dialog as "Toggle path handles on/off", where you can reconfigure it if you want.
Phil
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
Phil. You are a complete gem!
Many thanks for this. I look forward to playing with it.
Actually I have some print illustration work coming up and I am hoping to give the shape builder tools a real shake down.
HUGE regards
Dave
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
Oooooh. I just updated and it seems like I am 'H' less. No new optionds on the shape builder. Has something gone astray?
Huge regards
Dave
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
are you on classic shortcuts - if so try toggling to standard keys and then back - also it probably won't work if you have 'autodeselect' registry/xareg set
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
Hi Phil
thanks again from me
[see the 24bit photo import issue is fixed too - many thanks for that as well :)]
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
There was nothing set for default, I went into the Key Shortcuts bit and set it to H ... works fine afaics :-)
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
handrawn
are you on classic shortcuts - if so try toggling to standard keys and then back - also it probably won't work if you have 'autodeselect' registry/xareg set
Not working for me and I get this strange error message every time I start Xara:
Some key shortcuts could not be loaded: TemplateSaver
TemplateSaverMaker
I guess my update is broken - bah!
Huge Ones
Dave
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
Ah yes, good point. If you have made any changes to your hotkeys and saved them then you'll need to either use one of the Reset options in the hotkeyts dialog, as Handrawn says, or if you want to keep your hotkey setup, just use that dialog to assign whatever key you like to the "Toggle path handles on/off" command.
Phil
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
..... [Phil's post makes this redundant - please delete]
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
I re-set the short cuts and pressing 'h' does the job. I seem to get 1 control point displaying but that is no big deal.
Many thanks again. This is REALLY handy.
Huge Regards
Dave
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
What I would like to see in the future for the shapebuilder and the eraser tool is transparency settings on the info bar rather than having to back and forth to the transparency tool.
Square nibs
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Squeaky
I seem to get 1 control point displaying but that is no big deal.
possibly deliberate to flag selected object ?
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
handrawn
possibly deliberate to flag selected object ?
Could be. Not at all distracting so I'm happy. I just need some time to play now :-)
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
handrawn
:)
I'm pretty excited about this tool. I've done a tiny bit of playing to get a work flow going. Drawing an outline and then breaking the shape is a pretty handy work around for not having a fill tool. I just need work out some shortcuts
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
what I particularly like is the ability to 'paint-in' fills - especially where the line art is [intentionally] 'wobbly' and there are [again intentional] gaps - I find it much more natural [and quicker] to 'paint-in' behind, and erase the odd overshoot, than to [IMO laboriously] hand trace and then shift the nodes around to make it fit - I guess it depends on whether you are a freehand artist or at least prepared to go that way
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
Agreed. For me hand drawing is the way forward for speed and also adding a little bit of an organic feel. Point by point tweaking is time consuming and seems to really aggravate my RSI :-)
I also noticed that there is a 'smooth region' short cut though I would love a smoothing pen as previously mentioned.
I'm really surprised not more is made of this tool on the new features page. It really is a major step forward for me.
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
ah well.... there are three [at least] distinct camps - the 'technical' drawing types that need real point-to-point accuracy, and the website builders, and the freehanders... maybe the features page reflects the largest of these groups? :)
but I think that these tools can be used by all and Xara has done a great job in implementing them
EDIT: a voice over my shoulder says I left out the 'photo-manipulators' :D
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
I don't really like the paint tool for many reasons. It's destructive, the nodes and points are unpredictable and makes further editing of the shape a painful task.
A more non-destructive approach:
1Draw a line (brush of circles) > 2convert line to shapes > 3add shapes > 4increase shape size with outline tool using round profile > then 4decrease to "blur" the edging borders to create organic look.
Copy the line first and move it away as copy before converting line to shapes, this way you can make changes later on and repeat steps 2-4 to merge and blur the curve.
This way there's more control of the initial shape before blurring its edges. The resulting nodes and points are still too many and messy but still better if you need more control.
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
oh thats so sloooooow [sorry :D]
when I [and I think squeaky] say organic we are talking about workflow as much as 'look' - sure it's not going to please everyone
er - isn't further editing of the shape done with the same tool organically? - if you want to edit with nodes you'd start that way, right? - what exactly is destructive about it? :confused:
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
Drawing on the shape to remove bits or add bits will change the original shape, therefore is destructive. Unless there are 'subtract' and 'add' shapes where each group can be changed later on (as in many 3d programs where objects have Boolean properties) it will always be destructive. I think illustrator has a similar approach. Anyway going off topic here. I guess whatever works for you ;)
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
yes of course whatever works for you
I'll just say that using the shape tool to push out nodes also changes the original shape is therefore just as destructive [or not] - or am I missing something?
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
The shape tool in its current implementation is destructive. I was just suggesting an alternative non destructive approach, which does not exist in Xara.
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
yes but the shape builder tool is an alternative way of changing a shape [or constructing one] - the shape is changed and that's that - this is nothing more [or less] destructive than in using the shape editor tool - right?
I think that if you consider shapes to be only constructable from nodes and any 'none-node' enhancements to be either 'destructive' or 'non-destructive' you might miss the point
vector drawing is [on one level] moving away from nodes entirely - there is a class of user who no more wants to get involved in node manipulation than does another class of programmers wish to have to code in binary - this is a step in that direction
I see your point - but I don't think that is what this tool is really for...
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Re: Ideas for the future of the shape builder tool
as for a totally non destructive form of shape building - at what point do you set your baseline? - and you have a 'make vector copy' function to fix changes like you do in bitmaps?