Would like to know if someone knows how to insert tables for organizing information on pages being created?
:D
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Would like to know if someone knows how to insert tables for organizing information on pages being created?
:D
Hi mlk0125,
please have a look at this thread (http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthread.php?t=37021) and especially Gary's link in post 3 for a tutorial.
Regards, Albert
Please note that there are alternative ways to handle table creation. :)
Please demonstrate :)
Alternative method for table creation:
Simple. :)
- Create a cell (a rectangle) of whatever size and formatting. Insert a text string placeholder.
- Format for alignment.
- Group parent cell/rectangle with child text.
- Duplicate as required, using object corner snapping (depending on your data requirements).
- Group rows and/or columns, as required.
- Edit strings as required.
- Elongate/shorten parent cells/rectangles, as required.
How does this relate to WD, in simple Xara WD language.
Perhaps you could attach a sample .web file
Consider this simple example.
But in in an HML table file, you can populate with dynamic test from the website, but with that particular table you have to manually enter the 'Text'..for instance if I wanted to insert a Table and populate the table with external file you couldn't. Or am I wrong?
Jim
Correct. XWD is NOT a Dynamic page creation tool. One problem which will come up a lot is XWD is such a great tool in one respect that many will seek to integrate it with dynamic content, javascript libraries, PHP etc. They may find it is more work than it is worth.
This, I believe, is why Xara was sure to point out that for an advanced designer, XWD is more of a rapid prototyping tool.
@Scotty:
That's right, Curtis and Gary are explaining 'table' as a set of data arranged in rows and columns. These are graphically created using WD's drawing and text tools.
What you are talking about is a HTML element ( <table> ) which indicates structure in an HTML document and a way of hierarchically arranging content.
WD doesn't support this kind of HTML.
(Though remember, placeholders are your friend ;))
Yes, placeholders give everything. :)
I just thought to myself, the hardcore codeslingers should be very happy with WD. Why? Simply - we give them placeholder box, mostly similar to the NotePad. :rolleyes:
:D
Would it not be possible to use an <iframe> placeholder and load a page into that that has a HTML table?
Placeholder: Take a peek. :)
(Make sure that you save your spreadsheet file for later editing.)
This, of course, would be an option for ANY exported output, from ANY application that can generate representative HTML code.
Hi Cursor,
Ok I was but that is utilizing an Excel spreadsheet saved as HTML, then incorporating the Iframe to hold the information, not the Xara designer table to hold it.
JimP.S.
I am not trying to start an arguement just trying to unterstand how various work arounds are accomlished in WD.
Jim
Yes, you are correct. The table is created, formatted, sorted, etc. in Microsoft Excel (or whatever program you might have that conveniently addresses tables ... since xWD does not, currently). The HTML code is exported, then pasted into a placeholder so that it displays in a xWD designed web page.
I would prefer that Xara add table creation features, however, for some later release of WD (and/or XX).
Curtis,
VERY HELPFUL INFORMATION and excellent insturctions. Thanks!
Thanks for the information then, one question on placeholders. Placeholders can be either a "Layer" with appropriate name or a 'box' with an appropriate "placeholder name", then the size of the "placeholder" governs the size of the Iframe html code, is this correct. If the placeholder is a layer the excel file in your example would render the size of the webpage.(do you understand what I am getting at)
Jim
Hi coxover,
Well I created a a website incorporating "flash file" and experimented with placeholders. First creating a layer which I named Holder1, and the another layer with a rectangle with a Name-"Holder2" then used the replace with flash option for each layer and both worked but I created the flash file at the size of my rectangle and exported from SwishMax as a swf file
Jim
A 'placeholder' is simply an object (like paragraph text, or a photo) that is positioned on a layer. Sure, it's a complex object — but is is not a layer. It's like a bucket or a box on a shelf. It has a position, and it can be filled with useful content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty
Maybe I am missing something but there one glaring fact that people must understand about XWD. The page size is FIXED. This means if you do not know the exact size of what you are inserting via placeholders your page can be messed up. Using iframes with scrolling can avoid concern about size of inserted content but can cause excessive scrolling to view the content.
Please correct me if I am wrong but making it sound like you can insert anything via placeholders without a page layout concern will drive people crazy. The EXACT SIZE of whatever displayable content inserted via placeholders is used MUST be worked into the fixed size of the page in XWD.
I expect most people will do a "close enough" estimate of the size a page needs to be to hold a representative amount of data, and let the scroll bars do the rest. I maintain a golf league web site where software spits out HTML tables for the player and game data. I intend to create static-sized holder pages when I re-do the web site, and have the software-generated tables pulled in by iframes so I can replace them weekly without having to alter the main part of the site. I've already begun working out "close enough" sizes for the holder pages so the scrolling is kept to a manageable level. Unless you're completely scrollbar-averse I expect that'll suffice for most people.
Repelling text under a placeholder seems a bit difficult, if you don't know the specific size required by its content. As an example, I used the same spreadsheet generated table from my post above.
- I created sample text on MouseOff layer.
- I added a Placeholder-rectangle, then added the HTML for the table (output by Excel).
- Viewing the page, I realize that I need to do a 'Repel text under' for the Placeholder-rectangle. Doing a preview, I see that the rectangle needs to be larger (but how much larger?).
- In preview mode, I Alt-PrintScrn, then paste the bitmap into xWD, then draw a 50% transparent rectangle over the table.
- I top-left align the Placeholder-rectangle and the semi-transparent rectangle, then do a 'Repel text under' for the semi-transparent unit.
- While the text repels nicely about the semi-transparent box, and the box appears to be the right size, it is misaligned with the Placeholder-rectangle. Why?
Not so strictly: http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthread.php?t=36869
The attached .web file contains a page with a table that I mocked up using a spreadsheet program called CALC from Open Office.org. Seems to work quite well.
Randy
Very good method, good tip.
Erm... I hardly dare push my luck on a thread focused on tech ways to insert tables into XWD, but there is a very low tech way of achieving the same graphic effect. Simply take a .png snag (Snagit 9.0) of the spreadsheet and import it as a graphic. Then set it to repel text under and postion exactly as required using guides. Changes to the original table can then be snagged and positioned exactly as the original.
I use a workaround everytime instead of sweating a problem if it achieves the same effect.
OK, I'll shut up .....:)
I stand corrected as my addition to that thread makes clear. However, I realize that most visual type programmers may find it a bit daunting to work with that level of coding. But it is great to know that XWD CAN be used to create dynamic content and re-size accordingly on the fly if one is not code shy.:D
Just for information: this page would NOT validate and may even have display issues due to the fact there are 2 header sections and 2 body sections - an html no-no.
Second, any text grouped in XWD is now a graphic and will NOT be indexed at all by the search engines. You put all your table text in a graphic and as far as the search engines are concerned your site is talking about nothing.
I know nothing (yet) about "validation" (nor why it might be important).
I know little (currently) about search engine validation.
So, why wouldn't the table 'validate'.
And, how would you present the table for responsible SEO?
Thanks.
I'm pretty SEO ignorant, myself. Does an iframe link to an external block of HTML open that block up for the search spiders?
There's a video here explaining how to do it in WD.
Thanks for that. :)
If you noticed in my posts I have cautioned against the "I am drawing websites, the heck with the code" thinking. This thread makes clear...again as to why.
A placeholder of html code was inserted and because it showed up - it was assumed all was well but with the code that no one wants to look at - it contained SERIOUS html errors giving 2 header and 2 body sections. Anyone looking at this error would say the person designing the site doesn't have a clue what they are doing. It could have resulted in display issues and certainly wouldn't validate. A search engine could well ignore the page completely as deficient in structure.
Second - search engines use text primarily to "sniff" out your content. The more you convert plain text to images via grouping, the less text the SE has to sniff out the content of your site. It sees image tags without text.
This is why I say XWD is a wonderful tool, but graphics designers need to be aware of these things if they want to be serious about websites. Be very careful with the "who the heck cares about the code" mentality.
It could end up being very embarrassing for you professionally.
Even the first timer or "small guy" wants a site that will validate according to WC3 standards and they want good search engine ranking.
Any insertion of placeholder html could cause your validated code to go south with one cut and paste.
So I say design away with XWD - but DO be aware of at least some code issues so you don't end up screwing yourself or a client out of ignorance of some vital, very basic issues regarding the reality of the web.
And for those that don't know, validation is the internet's way of saying your page is properly structured and coded pursuant to the latest internet standards. It helps with display and search engine rankings not to mention it can help with people working with the site later.
Nothing is worse than checking your site and seeing pages full of errors in programming structure.........especially if a client that just paid you is sitting right there.
Which is why you should use the ALT text attribute in your <IMG tag - Google reads these.
Here's why
(Ignore that Matt Cutts incorrectly calls it the ALT 'tag')
WD allows you to apply the ALT text attribute - use it.
@Steve: There is just one important problem in this case: The ALT attribute shouldn't be used to insert the text of a whole table. In my eyes the suggestion posted in #28 can't be a proper solution for this task.
@richinri: I agree with you, that inserting a HTML table exported from MS Excel with a Xara Web Designer placeholder as suggested in post #13 creates invalid HTML code. Furthermore the use of <iframes> is a matter of taste. It's difficult to argue about taste, but I see it the same like you: Excessive scrolling within an <iframe> in order to see the content is a less-than-ideal solution.
Remi
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Disclaimer 1:
I don't use Xara Web Designer, therefore it could be, that my answer may not consider the current features of Xara Web Designer.
Disclaimer 2 (necessary these days):
I'm not implying anything I haven't said.
I'm not implying anything I haven't said. ;)
I never mentioned that ALT text used for an <img tag would replaced text in a table.
But what table are you talking? Table tag or a drawn graphical table?
If it's a table drawn in WD with numbers entered into each cell, why do you want this indexed by Google?
I was merely pointing out that Google reads ALT text for images. Therefore it stands to reason that the <IMG tag is not ignored as suggested.