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November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
Page Design Part One
November 2013 (OK, yeah, it is December, but the video is really, really good. :o and <sheepish grin>)
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This month Gary has listened to the TG forum and has created the first of a series of videos on page design. If you want a page that prints clear to the border, how do you set up bleed? And what’s this “Grid System” Art Directors talk about. This is your introduction to making your drawings complete a larger picture: after you’ve created a scene, frame it with text, and make the audience look at your composition until they’ve seen your full talent. Come along and get started with The Big Picture!
Let's see how you use Xara and grids to create inspired layouts.
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
This was an entirely different approach to tg's traditional tutorials: it was sort of a seminar rather than a "click here, go there to make a ball shape".
I have heard more than once from our membership some of the frustration in realizing what's in their head using Xara, and it's one's approach, and not Xara, that is responsible for the frustration.
Me, I was fortunate enough to go to formal art school in my youth, and I was taught structure, and how to build a rough foundation to embellish, and there are a lot of tools you need to create and a lot of rules you need to understand, so Episode One which I hope you'll soak in, is the first of several episodes next year that cover art basics instead of Xara's tools and what they can do. A lot of people have a much better grasp of what a tool can do, but not how to approach an idea to make it an outstanding graphic.
And not to worry...the Page Design episodes will be scattered throughout the next year (and perhaps beyond), with plenty of goal-oriented traditional tutorials in-between.
I'm here to teach, and I'm here to listen. Watch the video, ask questions here, and let's see if together we can't create something you'll be thrilled to have thought of.
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My Best,
Gary
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
This is a great tutorial Gary. Both the grid and the explanations of bleed and safety areas were very helpful. I will look forward to more of these.
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
Hi Ya, Gary—nice tut.
Because I'm often not one for following along well (and only play well with others once in a while), I attempted to recreate a little tutorial I borrowed from an on-line source for InDesign...that I recreated in QXP and PagePlus for a couple different groups of people. The ID tut was on baseline grids. While XDP does not support baseline grids, neither does PagePlus in the latest version (X7).
However, one can simulate a baseline grid in PP using an exact leading amount specified in points (and with extra math, in percents). My attempt failed in XDP. So I'll file a bug report.
Which means I'll force myself to play along insofar as the Xara Tut goes. I really enjoyed the subject of this month's XaraXone tutorial and look forward to more in the series. Again, thanks for getting to this topic.
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
@Mike—
I backed off the "Uber Tech" in this month's video because 1.) it's not in the Top Ten popular page design topics I've seen requests for, and 2.) I don't do commercial printing every day and that's why I put the caveat in the video that the pressman should have the final word on specs.
I thought as far as designing a page goes, the Grid System is so easy yet so critical to page legibility, that it's often overlooked as dumb or childish.
Next year, I'll sneak in 2, 3, and 4, and possibly a 5, concerning proper and professional (and eye-catching) typography rules, treatments and Larry probably wants info on storybook drop-caps (:)). We need to talk about gutters, considering the ubiquitous and sucky "perfect binding" when it comes to calculating gutter width versus the better stapling and the much better saddle stitching. And page numbering above the baseline and inside safety. There's a lot of stuff like bullets and dot leaders new to version 9 of Designer Pro and Page & Layout Designer, and I'd like to show you folks how to design a menu (as I did in the Official Guide).
Once we have a few rules in place in everyone's minds, I'll devote an episode to breaking the rules and coming up with something wondrous. I had a teacher back in school who insisted that headlines should be sans serif and body copy serif. So ten years later he redesigns the late, great Newsweek magazine and wouldn't you know his headlines are serif and body copy sans!
So it's important to learn the distinction between unconventional and innovative and actual design heresy.
To come, promise!
-g
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
What a good year for tuts 2014 is looking like! Not to say 2013 isn't/wasn't...But I really like this "topic" list above.
This is how I look at this subject. Before I draw that ball (or Christmas ornament), illustration/chart or what have you, I have to have concepts of where they are going, how is it going to meld with the other elements on the page, how will the page be structured, etc. No sense in drawing an ubber complex chart if I am only going to have 1 or 2 column inches to display the info.
Anyway, looking forward to it.
I got carried away on the word "grid" and applied it to a peeve I have. I did just discover what I thought was a bug only appears to apply to RTF pasted text. I'll have to investigate before I call bug again...
Back to worky.
Mike
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
I like your seminar and am looking forward to the next ones.
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
There are plenty of people who are more experienced in the definitions, functions, and intricacies of Xara than I. Also, there are a passel of technicians who wield Xara as though it's a camera, and they succeed!
So it's real simple: I try to approach making Xara easier and more fruitful by the "holistic" method. Not spiritual or spacey, as the term has become characterized as, but rather the original "Holism is characterized (but not defined) by comprehension of the parts of something as intimately interconnected and explicable only by reference to the whole." —Many online dictionaries
Draw some concentric circles. The inner-most one are Xara's tools; working outwards, there's Xara, outside of that is your OS, and then your computer, and the outermost we'll want to declare is Artwork.
I'm just stepping outside of the concentric circles to try to show the larger picture. And that's why I got lost in the page design theme this month and why it was so late to the forum.
People who want to tune in want results. And to do this, the learning needs to happen in stages.
I'm far less boring in person, honest! :)
-g
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
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Originally Posted by
Gare
I'm far less boring in person, honest! :)
"Boring" is one of the last words I would use to describe you.
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
We use a grid for laying out Good Morning Sunshine. Our layout is a standard US letter size page (8.5 by 11 in) double page spread. each page is laid out using a 3x3 grid we have no bleed but we do have a page margin, gutters and column breaks. (some of this Gary hasn't covered yet) We use the grid to layout our columns and align the ads. For the pages I have a template with guidelines set up, but often when doing the ads the grid is in my head :)
Here is a grid based layout I did this summer for one of our advertisers.
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
Here's a couple contributions to Gary's tut. Bleed and Safe area rectangles (which I wouldn't otherwise illustrate but for this tut) are on non-printing layers. And because it is hard for me to stick to an actual tutorial, the layout has been changed to a 5" x 7" card for the first one.
The second was a full page as if it were a magazine article. Pay no attention to the ruler lines...they were just there so I could ensure the text baselines align across the columns. The stock photo I used for the background has elements that roughly hit the three main columnar grid.
Mike
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
Cool, Mike.
And you've just opened another topic for next year, and that's typeface selection and fitting text. I know there are "quickies" because we all have stuff to do this year, but ifI sat down and thought a lot about how font choices, stacking, and justification would help get the text message across and support the grpahic a little better, well, then we'd be in episode 7 or something :).
That's not the point of my posting, though. You're one of the few members who is seizing this understanding of a virtual grid and doing something with it. Others will follow for sure, but thanks for truning in an education effort as early as you did!
My Best,
Gary
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
Thanks, Gary.
It's going to be a fun series when they crop up. Looking forward to them all!
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
I too am looking forward to more of these. I haven't had time to do the actual tutorial yet, I hope it was ok to post some of my commercial work.
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
Frances, first forgive me for swiping your advertisement without your consent, but you are SO close to having an outstanding advert if you play a little with typefaces and shuffle the design around just a tiny amount!
This is where I believe the reader impressions hit, in order from 1 as the first impression and 5 as the last:
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In short, I see the name of the store first, because of the color contrast between the red drop-shadow and the blue background, then the woman because people's mind's eyes go to photos of people, we're subconsciously attracted to people images. Now, it's good she's smiling at camera and posing and pointing, because she then directs me to the sales headline. Unfortunately, I get sidetracked to the 20% off because it's so bold, but it's not a show-stopper, and finally down to the address information.
Immediately, this ad could be improved if I know who this woman is. Is she the owner, a paid model? Stock clipart? What is her being for this ad? If it's just a design element, that's cool, but you could do a lot more with the woman if you gave her a name and let her say something about the sale in this ad. Not a speech balloon (!), but perhaps make the sale into a sentence and use " marks. This would tie the elements together a little more.
Other thing is you're using bl;ue, which does not draw the audience into the ad, sorry! Warm colors do. I'd suggest you play around with the text, both in font choice and position. This is what I did with your elements. I didn't not really alter the Grid, but I did some work attaching one element to another, and changing the visual importance to some of the elements. Again, I'm sorry I didn't ask you first, but this is a discussion on this month's tutorial, your example is so close to perfect. I wanted to point out to all where the ad isn't perfect, and what to do to make it perfect.
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My Best,
Gary
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
I agree that a warmer colour would have been much better but unfortunately the client provided the store logo with the blue background and wouldn't let us change it. And yes the photo was stock clipart, I chose it because she was posing and pointing. The client also wanted to play up the 20% off.
I love your version of the ad and it is good to learn how to go from good to great.
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
Tuck away some of this "throw-away" stuff that will never be used commercially for another day, Frances! Put the discount on the product: I drew a quick outline of a duvet behind the 20% off and it pops now. I used script and brush type fonts to make the ad toned down, less format. Lithos worked I thought for the address and there was no good reason not to reverse it out to call attention to it.
Once you have all the jigsaw pieces, there's more than one way to modify them to make them fit together: stuff slightly overlapping other things, rotating and/or distorting text.
If you want to download it, Xara will probably tell you you don't have the fonts on system, but I can tell you what they are if you like them, and where you can get them.
Your design waqs good, truly good, Frances. you should show them my mark-up, tell them you did it, and this is what they could have if they'd give you more control over creative decisions!
:)
-g
And why for God's sake isn't there a reflection in the store's logo, whose name is Reflections!?
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
Quote:
And why for God's sake isn't there a reflection in the store's logo, whose name is Reflections!?
If they had hired me to do their logo that's the first thing I would have suggested :)
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
This goes to show you, and me, and every designer who has some experience selling in the commercial field that the designer and the client need a collaborative relationship if the designer's efforts will work.
The customer is no dummy: they came to you for help. But they often come with preconceived notions that are wrong. I worked at a shop in Manhattan that did PanAm's advertising. When the airline hit the skids, they blamed us, and then the next ad agency, and two weeks later the next ad agency. They were blaming the agencies to spare face to the shareholders, but the truth will out: they had good advertising for a lousy company.
And the designer is no dummy: I know Frances would have designed something more attention-getting if she had the leeway.
Ya gotta educate the client on their own level, to explain your own craft.
-g
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
Gary I'm no designer and the only thing I've done is the Car Boot design so with that in mind, please excuse my lack of punch in this simple design, I had to start somewhere after watching the vid so I based this on the Francis design and the text on the article you linked to a few weeks ago, which was excellent. At least it gives me a kick start into this realm :D Still using P&GD7 but that's no excuse for not making an attempt on all I've seen so far on this subject in the Xone.
Stygg
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
Stygg, you did great for two ambitious page designs.
Computer Zone (if you're open to constructive criticism) is that you should weight your text differently, perhaps different alignment, definitely a more interesting but professional typeface, and do me a favor here—look at the above ad and tell me if you don't feel there's too much "air" on the left and the right of the text. Here:
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My modification of your ad is very "font aware". I used the heaviness and the size of the text to make the points in a way that draws your eye to what's important in the advert.
This indeed does stick the the grid system, it's just that I didn't fill all the cells, but I think you can see the structure here.
You didn't do anything wrong, mete: I just haven't presented the "Typography" episode yet! Body text has form and shape in addition to the printed message. I'd love to see someone, right now, do an all text ad, and use fonts and font locations and sizes to create motion and graphical substance.
Also, and this is a new one to me, that stock photography, at least on the Web, is ineffective. A real person, or a celebrity, people stop to register, so I think the lesson here is that you can't use stock photography in a gratuitous way to fill up the page, or use someone handsome or sexy to sell your product. The generation of the most heavy consuming people are Generation X and not us Boomers, and they are wise and immune to trying to sell a product with unrelated material.
Your second ad, stygg, is a beautiful accomplishment in black and white. I like the staggered elements and don't mind the somewhat obvious two column treatment at all.
Two column layouts need special care to disguise the grid. They are called "tombstone layouts" (because that's the way a lot of grave markers are made); three columns, or four, or even two uneven columns are good to try out for text-intensive page design.
My Best,
Gare
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
Thanks Gary for such excellent feedback, that is just what I wanted to achieve but didn't know how to go about it, that is one to keep in my files. The woman is from the clip art in P&GD7 as is the laptop. What a difference correct layout makes with the right fonts, size and spacing. Looking forward to more from you on design next year, I'll have upgraded to P&GD9 or Pro9 by then :D
Regards Stygg
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
You're welcome and a good sport for not slapping me for re-doing your ad!
I guess typography, which fonts to choose AND how to stack and align them, deserves an episode in The Page Design Saga.
Truthfully, I came from a background where we'd order text that was rendered optically (photographically, sort of), it came on pages or strips, we'd photocopy them because they were expensive, and we'd cut them up and use rubber cement to tack down text block until we thought they'd make a good ad.
But we all have sort of the same thing: you can scale text (which we couldn't do easily or quickly in the late 1960s), rotate, distort...the possibilities are immense.
It helps to zoom out before you think you're done to see "the color" of the page...where dense areas are, where light ones are, and that they are correct and in the position the deserves attention, or not.
My Best,
Gary
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
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Gare
...right now, do an all text ad, and use fonts and font locations and sizes to create motion and graphical substance...
Just couldn't do an all text ad. Not creative enough. My main excuse is I had enough time to squeeze this in for tonight. Got payin' work to do.
A little clip clip here, clip clip there using the Pacific rim and color the body several shades different than the countries' outlines around the edge of the magazine display ad (looked up a travel mag's advertising specs for a 1/3 page horizontal ad) and I would like it better...
Mike
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
Hey, Big Fellah—
Thanks for posting, but Mike? This is not a time-sensitive tutorial, and certainly I'm not pushing anyone when they have friends and family to be with around this time of year.
What you did wasn't what I'd anticipated, but it's clean and looks good for commercial printing (ewww, all the trapping with light text on a dark background!)
:)
-g
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
Oh...no imposed time constraints from your end. My end. Got a 1.7 gig zip file from someone yesterday. That's my time constraint.
The colored text will be fine. At 10 point, using a tint of the background color using offset as does the magazine, it will be more than clear enough.
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
Gary just a question with regard to your last sentence in #25 In the upcoming tuts on Page Design, will you be touching on commercial printing and personal ? I'm not well up on all this Design Layout and would have no idea on what size's to use say for a web page or an advert in a web page, posters etc. The design you corrected for me, thankfully, in #21 would be considered an advert or a poster,commercial or personal printing? This is where the confusion sets in with me.
Please forgive my ignorance on all these topics. I've only ever made a couple of posters for some local shops at A4 and US letter size and printed them out in PDF format, so my expertize is lacking sadly I'm sorry to say, but if your video's next year will be touching on some of these points, I will be a happy fella :D
Stygg
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
I'm a lightweight when it comes to printing, stygg. I've not kept very current nor very "deep" into the subject. My background was television, with only a smattering of print when I worked in advertising.
I can give you a little advice on prepping your work for commercial versus personal printing, but that is not my goal for 2014 and this "series".
I want next year to show people how to design pages better. We all focus on illustration work, but that's not always the end goal. How do you complement and reinforce an illustration withe text? What sort of typography is best, and for what?
The tutorials will be design-based, with advice on Xara's features.
There are folks I'm sure who would step forward and give you commercial printing advice that's up to date if you ask at tg.
My Best,
Gary
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
I think that Gary gave some good advice in the video: Talk to your printer :) I've use a few different printers locally over the years and depending on their equipment they can have differing requirements regarding things like bleed etc.
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I would like just also say thanks for the tutorial, did some tries but which are rather just plays. Always wanted to see once how to repel text inside a shape for example, and this tutorial just reminded me. So not three columns like of design, the third one is I know absolutely abstract :D
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
Very nice designs, Csehz, very professional, very inspiring and attention-getting!
Wesołych Świąt!
-g
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
Gare your polish is perfect :), Merry Christmas also for everyone
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@csehz—
My capability to call my mother, her dad was Russian, and speaks a few Slovak languages, is perfect! :)
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—Gary
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A couple of nice pages from csehz. So although I did the Computer Zone advert, with help from Gary with my first attempt at this, I decided to see if I could do a clean no mess no bells, baubles and the like page. Not knowing much about Text alignment, Paragraph spacing what fonts to use etc. etc. I thought it was time I did a bit of self learning and I came up with the attached. It's nothing to write home about but I learned a lot from doing it. :D
Stygg
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
That's a very neat, and very good "text heavy" page, stygg. I especially like that fact that you made the two columns different in width. When they are equal width, it looks like a tombstone and in the trade it's called that.
I think for printing, the green and blue you picked are fine because a straight conversion to CMYK would brute-force those colors into printing range of colors (gamut), which is different and smaller than RGB, and they'd be (unpredictably) duller and darker.
Interesting the discipline you put into it, stygg.
Much effort, much good!
:)
-g
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
Nice one Stygg, it reminds me to the Two columns web layouts in CSS with a content and an aside section
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Re: November 2013 Xara Xone Tute: Page Design Part One
Thanks for the feed back Gary, looking forward to more on this Page Layout and Design. I must admit and I don't know why? but I particularly like text pages, I think it's because they look so ordered and if done correctly (which I hope to achieve) can convey the content very interestingly and eye catching. The Pie Chart video is great, so got plenty to keep me busy with that and the Gold Star. Gary, your last sentence "Interesting the discipline you put into it, stygg". Not sure what you mean but I am a stickler (or boring) for order and alignment, not sure if that's a good thing or bad. :think:
@ csehz, Thanks for the kind remarks, at least I got something almost right for once :D
Stygg
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Page Design Part One
@ stygg—
I simply meant that you were very focused, no screwing around, when you set out to do a text-predominant page, you didn't post until you and the world knew it was a winner.
Sometimes you trust your gut. Spielberg did for decades with his films. He knew he was gifted and he told people, "I made movies that I myself would be interested in seeing."
So if you trust your gut, and you can wink in the bathroom mirror in the morning and say, "Damn, you're good!", and do it with conviction...you got a winning attitude and a winning recipe.
Apologies in advance if my posts are more "organic" than they are strict, empirical menu commands and stuff.
I'm pre-occupied with bringing the Holidays to tg!
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-g
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Thanks for the reply Gary "I simply meant that you were very focused, no screwing around, when you set out to do a text-predominant page, you didn't post until you and the world knew it was a winner" That is exactly what I did Gary and I was quite pleased with myself :D
Stygg
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Was playing around during half time of the football game I was watching.
Take care, Mike
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