Huge jump in file size from xara file to PDF export

I have a (roughly) 8 1/2" x 11" double page spread (ie., two 8.5 x 11" pages side by side, plus bleed margins) that I'm trying to export as PDF. (I've attempted to attach the document to this post.)

Currently, no matter what I try, the files balloon in size upon export to PDF.

Each page contains one JPEG each, with a file size of roughly 1 mb, for a total of 2 mb, pre-PDF export.

I'm exporting as PDF/X, have disabled "optimize for fast web viewing" (this is for a book, going to press); in the objects tab I have kept the default of "native" compression, set at 85% quality, dpi is set at 300; in the layers tab I have disabled "include crop and printer marks in PDF document".

When I export in this manner, the resulting PDF is 17.5 mbs!

The printer I'm working with has a 400mb limit for the entire interior book file; at this rate, I can only have a 20 page book! Does anyone have any idea what I might be doing wrong?

As an uncompressed CMYK image, those pages are each about 33 megabytes. Your page size appears to be manually accounting for bleed, so they are a touch larger than 8.5" x 11". Does the print establishment allow inside bleeds?

What exactly do you expect? If you want a smaller size, you would need to not have those pages as bitmaps. That would mean having vector elements for most of your page elements.

Mike

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Your page size appears to be manually accounting for bleed, so they are a touch larger than 8.5" x 11". Does the print establishment allow inside bleeds?

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You are correct about the bleed; I have edited my original post to correct that confusion. The printer establishment does allow inside bleeds, so that shouldn't be a problem.

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What exactly do you expect? If you want a smaller size, you would need to not have those pages as bitmaps. That would mean having vector elements for most of your page elements.

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I should have been more clear. I would like to print a 200 to 400 page book. The printer has a 400mb limit on interior file size. That means that in order to have a 200 page book I would have to reduce my file size to 4mb per two-page-spread (of which the file attached is a sample).

My question is, is there any way to export the file I have attached, in its current condition, as a PDF under 4 mb--and still retain the 300dpi quality?

Ok, I had a moment to take a look at the PDF export and to compare with ID and QXP after exporting your page-sized images at 300 dpi TIFFs.

If I use the PDF/X-3 profile from XDP using JPEG compression set to 100, I get a PDF of a bit over 5 megabytes. Using my PDF/X-4 profiles from either ID or QXP, the PDF tips the scales at a skosh over 6 megs. If that is not enough pages for your book, I would recommend finding another printer.

I have no idea how many pages you plan on having, but you can do the math. You'll be limited to about 66 of these types of pages to remain under 400 megs.

BTW, the optimize for fast web viewing means little to file size and has no result on the quality of the PDF. It's an XML instruction for how modern web browsers will load a PDF in the browser. It's a couple bytes of info is all.

Mike

We were cross-posting.

See my reply re the number of pages.

Mike

Oops. Seems I cannot use a calculator today. So the page count at the file size would allow a bit over 130 pages.

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Originally Posted by WideEyedLife

The printer I'm working with has a 400mb limit for the entire interior book file; at this rate, I can only have a 20 page book! Does anyone have any idea what I might be doing wrong?

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I agree with mwenz here - find another printer. I have created 200+ page books (granted my books are 8.5 x 11), but for intended print work, with CMYK color, and PDFX/1a - 4, and my publication files are often hundreds of MB in size, yet its never been a problem. As far as I'm concerned, who cares how large the file is, because once its a printed book, MB mean absolutely nothing. I've never had a MB file size issue from any printer, and I work with many printers. Find another printer.

[Thank you so much for your continued help!]

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Originally Posted by mwenz

If I use the PDF/X-3 profile from XDP using JPEG compression set to 100, I get a PDF of a bit over 5 megabytes.

Mike

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The 5 megabyte file size sounds far better than the 17.5 I've been getting [the 17.5 was the file size for a PDF export of both pages of the two-page spread]. I tried to follow your instructions, and immediately saw the end result be a smaller file as soon as I used the PDF/x3 instead of the pdf/x1. But I think I may have done something wrong as my file isn't the 5 megabytes you spoke of, but rather 10.4.

Okay, so here's what I've done exactly:

In Xara Designer Pro 6, starting with the document exactly as it is in the attachment at the top of this forum topic:

*File--->
*Export--->
*Enter file name--->
*In the General Tab, I select "PDF/X3; 2002", and make no other changes in the general tab.
*In the Objects Tab, under "Bitmap Compression" I change "native" to "JPEG", then move the bar until it is set at "100". I make no other changes.
*I ignore the document, pre-press, and security tabs.
*In the "Layers" tab, I deselect "Include crop and printer marks"
*I hit "export"

The PDF file generated is 10,372 KB.

Have I missed something in the instructions? Or, in order to get the 5 megabyte file size, did you export the entire document (as in both the left and the right sides of the two page spread)---or does that number only represent 1 page (as in, either the left or the right hand side)?

Thanks so much for your help!

[Not quite ready to give up on this printer, quite yet.]

Though it doesn't always work, I find that my PDF files exported from Xara, then opened in Adobe Acrobat Pro can be optimized to further reduce file size.

you are using designer pro 6 ? - it's possible that the export filters for that version are not as 'efficient' as the later ones [mike I think uses ver 9, I use version 8]

I always admire the file size by Xara export.
Yesterday I exported Poster as PDF/X-1 Coated Fogra 39. At the exit I got 80Mb.
Using Acrobat Pro preflight utilité I converted this document in the same format with the same color space. And gotten only 16Mb. Funny actually!
So if you have a way to use Adobe Acrobat Pro, then do the same thing.

it depends [I think] on which PDF library xara is using - I guess you would expect the adobe product to have the best

I do not know whether Acrobat is better. But Adobe is quasy standard for printing companies. And Acrobat gives me more confidence that my document corresponds printing demands. If file size is 5 times smaller, it is not bad either.

I find nothing wrong in using multiple softwares. e.g. Photoshop can also 3D. But I'm doing it in 3D program. Because it is precieser, better and faster. Is it bad or good?

Acrobat is optimizing the pdf on the resave. And it is likely possible.to get your 80 Meg file down even further with no lack of quality by stripping all the Metadata.

@Wide,

That was both pages. I'll look again when I am back to the computer. ..I'm sitting on the porch drinking coffee at the moment. But I am pretty sure that the settings were as per your choices.

@digitalphaser [edit mike snuck in there

whatever works for you is good

I use a lot of different software, it's the job that counts at the end of the day

when I say 'best' I mean adobe can afford the best, not every software company are that position; and that is one reason why you will not hear me knocking adobe now that I have come to use it in anger...

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Originally Posted by mwenz

Acrobat is optimizing the pdf on the resave. And it is likely possible.to get your 80 Meg file down even further with no lack of quality by stripping all the Metadata...

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It's right. Most importantly, the optimization is not at the expense of quality. Just cleaned waste "slag".

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Originally Posted by handrawn

@digitalphaserwhen I say 'best' I mean adobe can afford the best, not every software company are that position; and that is one reason why you will not hear me knocking adobe now that I have come to use it in anger...

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I understood you. :) My thought was: "best" is a relative term. I do not like comparisons "better" or "worse". I like more: why is it better?..

understood :D

has a more comprehensive implementation perhaps? - ok I am still not being 100% definitive, but I claim no expertise

Hi Wide, Yep, those are the same settings. So likely as mentioned, it is further optimization Xara has done with the export filter.

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Originally Posted by WideEyedLife

...Not quite ready to give up on this printer, quite yet.

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I fully understand. I have a particular service bureau I have done work with since 1989 and will do work with them as long as we both are in business. But I am not always in control of where the work goes and so the printer has to be capable of doing the work. Which for some clients mean they have to choose a different printer. For instance, the last book I did had the PDF at about 1.25 gigabytes for the interior.

There isn't any way to get your PDF smaller than I have done without lowering the DPI. It's a limitation of the physical size of a bitmaps being used for the page.

Only vector elements will reduce the PDF size. Do you have vector elements of these pages?

Mike

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Originally Posted by mwenz

Hi Wide, Yep, those are the same settings. So likely as mentioned, it is further optimization Xara has done with the export filter.

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It appears I'm doing the same thing you are, settings wise.

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Originally Posted by handrawn

you are using designer pro 6 ? - it's possible that the export filters for that version are not as 'efficient' as the later ones [mike I think uses ver 9, I use version 8]

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Let's see if I get this---
Based on the two comments above, it's possible that my problem is an antiquated version of Xara that isn't as efficient at exporting PDFs?

So if I download the latest version of Xara Pro my PDF file size may go down?

Download the trial and see for yourself is the best way to know. Version X10 has had further work as regards PDFs. At least for import. I don't know about export. Handrawn was correct that I use X9.

Mike

Adobe had the same problem with users complaining in their forums when AI CS2 was released the file size increased by 3 fold. Their reply was much the same as Mike's it was the meta info carried in the file but also the thumbnail of the file. They since have reduced the PDF export file size down as the CS numbers have increased and it looks like Xara's import filter supplier has done the same (were they Proteus?).