New WebP Support

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22 April 2021, 02:22 PM
Acorn

New WebP Support

Dear Xara Cloud...

... and @MB365, your Posts regarding WebP supported added to Xara Designer Pro+ 21.1.0.61938 SL x64 Apr 21 2021 for WebP Export and WebP HTML Rendering in XDA websites are most welcome.

In https://help.xara.com/article/585-webp-file-format, you mention "1) Click on Utilities > Website Properties"; there is no such beast - corrected by @Rob-Xar.
Also in placing the option here you have destroyed any sensible linkage with Web Properties > Image > Image > Image Filename.

When I leave the WebP default, you explain that my Image Filename choice of Fred with format JPEG will also get exported as a fall-back:

Quote:

This will export all your images as WebP and use them by default. Xara will still export a copy of all your images as PNG or JPG (see below) as a fall-back for use in browsers that do not support WebP.

The following has been resolved at https://www.talkgraphics.com/showthr...240#post636240 below in Post #10:

Quote:

Bug - No such thing is happening
<img class="xr_wpj xr_ap" id="Default" src="index_htm_files/Fred.webp" alt="" title="" style="left:479px;top:141px;width:256px;height:256 px;">
There is no Fred.jpg anywhere and there is no code to deliver a "fall-back"!

Fred.jpg is in the Manifest within the index_htm_files/ folder.

You have forced a default (again!) that will immediately cause problems and destroy existing websites.

Acorn
22 April 2021, 03:10 PM
DanFelix

Re: New WebP Support

Hmm. My Website Properties shows the Include WebP Images and works as advertised. Both file formats were successfully exported and function as expected. What am I missing?
22 April 2021, 03:13 PM
Acorn

Re: New WebP Support

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanFelix

Hmm. My Website Properties shows the Include WebP Images and works as advertised. Both file formats were successfully exported and function as expected. What am I missing?

Well clearly it is me that is missing something.

I will restart my machine and report back!

UPDATE:
Cold Reboot and XDA Run as administrator.
Imported a random Pixabay image, stock18697.jpg, weighing in at 11MB, 7952x5304px.

Previewed, and I got 3@2x.webp for 2048x1366px and 309kB.
Changed to exclude WebPs and I got 3@2x.jpg for 2048x1366px and 497kB.
A 38% reduction is not fantastic.
Enabled WebP again and added an Image filename "Snowy Tree" and I got Snowy_Tree@2x.webp for 2048x1366px and 309kB.
I optimised the Snowy Tree and the file size grew to 323kB.
Using Squoosh, my WebP reduced to 180kB but it is difficult to make a true comparison.

<img class="xr_rn_ xr_wpj xr_ap xr_rno_http://localhost:8000/virt33a0776b/index_htm_files/3.webp " src="http://localhost:8000/virt33a0776b/index_htm_files/3@2x.webp" alt="" title="" style="left:408px;top:8px;width:1024px;height:683p x;">
<img class="xr_rn_ xr_wpj xr_ap xr_rno_http://localhost:8000/virt33a0776b/index_htm_files/Snowy_Tree.webp " src="http://localhost:8000/virt33a0776b/index_htm_files/Snowy_Tree@2x.webp" alt="" title="" style="left:408px;top:8px;width:1024px;height:683p x;">

What I am not seeing is any fall-back image or coding.

Acorn
22 April 2021, 03:23 PM
Rob-Xar

1 Attachment(s)

Re: New WebP Support

Hi Acorn.

There is code that runs to detect whether the browser supports webp, and adjusts the image paths appropriately.

For example, here on a Mac - Safari: http://robert1.xara.hosting/webp

Attachment 129465

Shall I go ahead and delete those comments in the other threads or are you going to reply correcting them?

Thanks
Rob
22 April 2021, 03:49 PM
gwpriester

Re: New WebP Support - FAIL

I tried to export a high res image as Webp and nothing happens. I also tried to export a website with the same image and the image exports as a JPG at 96dpi.

What am I missing here?
22 April 2021, 03:55 PM
Rob-Xar

Re: New WebP Support - FAIL

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwpriester

I tried to export a high res image as Webp and nothing happens. I also tried to export a website with the same image and the image exports as a JPG at 96dpi.

What am I missing here?

Can you send me your file or image that is not exporting to WebP?
22 April 2021, 04:01 PM
gwpriester

1 Attachment(s)

Re: New WebP Support - FAIL

This is the error message I received after I cancelled the Export option.

I send you a download link to the PNG image.
22 April 2021, 04:06 PM
Acorn

1 Attachment(s)

Re: New WebP Support

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob-Xar

Hi Acorn.

There is code that runs to detect whether the browser supports webp, and adjusts the image paths appropriately.

For example, here on a Mac - Safari: http://robert1.xara.hosting/webp

Attachment 129465

Shall I go ahead and delete those comments in the other threads or are you going to reply correcting them?

Thanks
Rob

Rob, thank you for advising. Your logic is unclear. When will the fall-back kick in? Is it for my browser or the end viewer?
I work with a browser that supports WebP but when does your code detect the end viewer's browser cannot.

Clearly I am publishing a website that is supposed to be agnostic to the browser viewing it.

If I open your link in IE, I get:

Attachment 129467

All WebPs that do not render, no JPEGs, no fall-back.
I build sites for others; not to look at things in my cosy den.

Acorn
22 April 2021, 04:23 PM
Rob-Xar

Re: New WebP Support

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acorn

Rob, thank you for advising. Your logic is unclear. When will the fall-back kick in? Is it for my browser or the end viewer?
I work with a browser that supports WebP but when does your code detect the end viewer's browser cannot.

Clearly I am publishing a website that is supposed to be agnostic to the browser viewing it.

If I open your link in IE, I get:

Attachment 129467

All WebPs that do not render, no JPEGs, no fall-back.
I build sites for others; not to look at things in my cosy den.

Acorn

Hi Acorn,

IE is no longer supported, nor is it supported by Microsoft, it was dropped last year. We can log this but I don't think it would get any priority. I would suggest using a modern browser such as Chrome/Edge/FireFox etc

You can also turn the option off in Web Properties also if you really want to make sure it works in IE
22 April 2021, 05:07 PM
Acorn

Re: New WebP Support
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob-Xar

Hi Acorn,
IE is no longer supported, nor is it supported by Microsoft, it was dropped last year. We can log this but I don't think it would get any priority. I would suggest using a modern browser such as Chrome/Edge/FireFox etc
You can also turn the option off in Web Properties also if you really want to make sure it works in IE

I am not being obtuse here. Either the export presents WebP for WebP-aware browsers or its fall-back is to JPEG/PNG.

I am sorry I chose IE as a case study where your coding does not present JPEG/PNG.
It is the only browser I have that does not support WebP.
Your XDAs still use IE: "IE is no longer supported, nor is it supported by Microsoft, it was dropped last year."

I don't need IE covered, thank you.

What would have been useful was a proper explanation that the JPEG/PNG files are created and placed in the index_htm_files/ folder where a non-WebP browser will have Xara codes to point to these instead.

It eventually clicked and I looked in the manifest, xr_files.txt:
- index_htm_files/Fred.jpg - 9.4kB
- index_htm_files/Fred.webp - 3.65kB
- index_htm_files/Snowy_Tree.jpg - 126kB
- index_htm_files/Snowy_Tree.webp - 78.5kB
- index_htm_files/Snowy_Tree@2x.jpg - 485kB
- index_htm_files/Snowy_Tree@2x.webp - 302kB
I note you have already corrected your WebP File Format page.
I hope you alter the default for Include WebP images to off.
Your

Quote:

Please note: This will increase the time it takes to export your website. If you check this option and republish, it will have to do a full publish again rather than quick publish.

Is it not the case that only if unticked and then ticked do you require a full publish (a first publish is always full). While ticked, updates can use quick publish thereafter?

I have corrected a statement in https://www.talkgraphics.com/showthr...216#post636216 but the rest of the observations still stand.
I will update my first Post to this Thread.

I followed @MB365's Posts with links to this Thread to show how OTT is was to target every past complaint over image formats in such a fashion.
Perhaps we would have a better understanding if you replied to each concern at the time and indicate that it has been added to the Backlog.
Ignoring TGer valid concerns for so long and then going Ta-Da is infra-dig.

Acorn
22 April 2021, 07:52 PM
Egg Bramhill

Re: New WebP Support

Bit late on parade here...
Firstly I'd comment that the inclusion of webp is a great new feature, one members have been requesting a lot recently. So with this, hidef and fit to width I'd like to say that Xara is getting back on track over the past few months.

I can only test whether the new webp inclusion serves up non webp images as an alternative by testing it on my iphone6 which has an old version of Safari. Safari is the latest big browser to support webp but the version on my iphone isn't capable afaik. This browsers loads an image. I can't find how to discover whether its a webp or jpg but I'm pretty sure it'll be the jpg version.

Here's the link to the demo site
22 April 2021, 09:14 PM
gwpriester

Re: New WebP Support

Downloads in my Firefox, Edge, Waterfox, and Brave browsers as webp Egg.

Shows fine in Safari, and Edge on my iPhone.
22 April 2021, 10:04 PM
Egg Bramhill

Re: New WebP Support

Quote:

Downloads in my Firefox, Edge, Waterfox, and Brave browsers as webp Egg.

I would expect this Gary.

Quote:

Shows fine in Safari, and Edge on my iPhone.

Also expected as you have a fairly new iPhone with probably the latest version of Safari which now enables webp.

My question (and I believe Acorns) is older browsers downloading the jpg files?
23 April 2021, 12:51 AM
gwpriester

Re: New WebP Support

Egg - I think Rob explained in one of these posts that the script searches for webp support and if it does not find the support then exports a straight JPG file.
23 April 2021, 08:07 AM
Acorn

Re: New WebP Support

Quote:

Originally Posted by Egg Bramhill

I would expect this Gary.
Also expected as you have a fairly new iPhone with probably the latest version of Safari which now enables webp.
My question (and I believe Acorns) is older browsers downloading the jpg files?

Egg, the WebP/JPEG/PNG equivalents are all present. There is code to detect when the browser can handle which and so every browser gets the right file format, except Internet Explorer, it would appear.

Acorn
23 April 2021, 01:44 PM
DanFelix

Re: New WebP Support

One of my clients is an artist. His site contains about 40 works of art. When I use the WebP feature, the artwork appears watery and low res. When I post the site without using WebP then the artwork is once again clear and detailed. So, for now, I will have to refrain from using the feature on that site, regardless how it upsets Google's sensibilities.
23 April 2021, 03:45 PM
Rob-Xar

Re: New WebP Support

Hi Dan,

Can you send me your WEB/XAR file and let me know where these images are so we can take a look at what is happening? https://www.xara.com/contact-us/

Thanks
Rob