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How about lean version of Xtreme
I would love to have Xtreme stripped of the Web and Live Effects.>:)
The web features introduced a problem by retaining layers when pasting in place. Other issues may also exist but the layer issue has been mentioned by other members. Besides Web Designer has all the web features so why include them into the flagship vector application. ;)
Live Effects cause files to become corrupt so they cannot be reopened. Many members have reported this type of problem. :(
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
:D
just so long as it includes soft groups VHQ and customisable keys it gets my vote..........
I can live without live effects too so long as I can make PS my bitmap editor.....
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
Never use those two things anyway, so I probably wouldn't notice. Isn't the button nav bar part of the web design toolset too? Personally speaking, 3D effects are something I wouldn't miss either, but I don't know if it has any detrimental effects.
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
The button nav bar was depricated several versions back, so not missed by me. ;)
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
I think you've got a good point, Bill.
WedDesigner has simplified things, but a hybrid between it and Xara, perhaps including the Blend, Freehand, and QuickShape tools, and not all the web publishing functions would be my vote.
In a corporate environment especially this, I think, would be ideal. Novice or infrequent users would have a great, value-priced app at hand they could easily use. High-end users with XPro could do more sophisticated editing/repurposing of their files as needed.
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
Sorry Bill. I'm still with Xtreme 4.01. I am looking for an excuse to upgrade and eventually will, but Xtreme 5 pro just doesn't have anything I feel I must have...yet.
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
If memory serves me the Nav Bar tool was depricated in the first Xtreme release. However, it was still available by opening the Control Bars Button Palette up to and including 4.01 but wasn't on the Tools bar as it had been in Xara X and X¹.
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
I use a stripped down interface, and tend to open tools with hotkeys. I have noticed that on my printed hotkeys card (taped to my monitor) that I rarely, if ever, use any of the whole top row (CTRL+Fkey) they are; Shadow, bevel, live effects, photo, contour and button & navbar. It doesn't get in my way, I was just curious if it was part of the web features you mentioned.
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
The old Nav Bar is no where in Web Designer or Xtreme 5, however a post was made about the possibility of something better being in a future version. We must wait and see what that may be. ;)
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
Hi Bill is that not called X2 or what ever it was called before the Live Effects Tool? It is a good idea to clean out the bits that some of us don't think are as quite important to us in everyday drawing. I was finding that the speed was not quite there when I upgraded to Pro 5, then I had a thought (a dangerous event), I stopped putting the path in on all the Plugin folders that I had, suddenly I had my speed back again.
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
X1 - X2 has live effects
I still have it [and the version before that]
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
Hi Peter, you are correct about the paths and speed. I haven't installed any of the plugins that were offered with the Xtreme 2.0 for several versions now.
I still have Xara X, X¹, Xtreme 2.0, Xtreme Pro 3.2, Xtreme 4.0 and Xtreme 5.0 installed on one of my Windows 7 systems.
If X¹ had the same text features and import/export filters as 4.0 and 5.0 I would probably still be using it primarily. :)
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
That's it Bill isn't it - its the little things you've always wanted personally that get slowly drizzled in - like those I mentioned above, that keep you with the new versions - one might almost think they do it on purpose :eek:;))
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
You've got my vote, Bill.
Customizable keys are critical. The more, the better.
I don't use soft groups, but they're ok so long as they don't involve the dreaded layer retention.
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
Hi Bill, The Lite version, they always seem to spell that way, could be called Xara Professional!
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
Peter that is a very good idea. :)
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
Hi Bill
Sounds like somebody is getting grumpy in their old age.......joke.......
Last year Jens g r benthien posted a thread a little bit like yours, and I was completely shocked by the ignorance of some of the replies.........a lot of flaming was in this thread for no reason at all. I really don't know how to link to it so I went in and found it and copied the address.....so it should take you there for a stroll down memory lane if you wish to revisit it. Basically, he was asking for custom installing which could be a bit of which you are demanding. Instead of installing everything, chose what you want.
http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthre...tom+installing
However, a small point. A good workman has a lot of tools in his toolbox, most of which don't get used too often. But they are there for when he needs them. Like so many, I went and bought web designer when it was offered, switching be tween version 4 when necessary. Everything is now included in the same package so the main question is.......did I blow my money buying an unnecessary program. Leaving that alone for the moment, the formum "Dear Xara" would seem to go against you in this particular thread.
Maybe old Jens had the right solution.....customized installation.......anyway, have a happy........frank
P.S. I am very happy that so far everybody had shown enough respect for you that you are not getting flamed like poor old Jens.....I was writing a bit more about maybe the forum is more mature now, but no, I'll leave it like it is.........again, for a second time..........frank
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
:D 'ah yes I remember it well..'
dang me if I now don't get the photo tool when I accidentally double mouse [like it or not] - so much for progress :rolleyes:
back on topic - the photo tool you can ditch for me too; its cute but photoshop elements gets used more [lot]
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
Hi Frank,
Yes I am getting grumpy with age. ;):D
I'm sure the cold weather has as much to do with it as age, or at least the aches that accompany both. :D
The point about many tools is a good one. I have added many tools recently, but they are not made by Xara unfortunately. :(
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
I think the fundamental issue here is the way changes made to support web features affect the vector tools. Custom installation wouldn't resolve that.
I'm all for having a customizable interface. Custom installation, too, but I don't think either one is likely to turn off a web support "improvement" such as layer retention.
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
I have moved this out of the Dear Xara forum (which is not intended as a place for debating) and into the general Xtreme and Xtreme Pro forum.
The question Bill has raised is an important one which other members might like to follow and add their thoughts to.
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
Good thinking, Steve. :-)
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
I had not planed on any debate. I simply wanted to make my desire known for a version without all the extras that seem to have added a lot of bugs and features that I personally do not need. :)
Many people have posted their desires in the Dear Xara forum, shouldn't a moderator have the same priviledge? ;))
Not that I am complaining about the move to the main forum or anyone posting their thoughts. I'm sure the Xara development team checks both areas. :)
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
Yes we do.
But it's easier to track messages in the Dear Xara forum because all of them are directly addressed to Xara while most of the stuff on this forum is not so important.
So it is still better to have the proposition properly posted on the Dear Xara forum.
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
I may be ignorant of the issues at hand, but why request these things be stripped? Wouldn't it be better to have a dialog to popup when pasting in place to turn off the retention of layers? This would allow you to keep the tools in your tool box rather than throw them away. I am thinking of something similar to the drag and drop of bitmaps while holding the shift key. Something that gives the user the option of what to replace. I know that this would add an extra step but wouldn't it be better to keep the functionality? I do alot of web design and even for me, trying to copy buttons from (mouseoff/mouseover) layer to (a popup) layer is a pain.
It's just a thought...
Eric
After I posted I saw this thread in Dear Xara which asks for the same thing. http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthread.php?t=42572
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
put a bit simplistically..
there was a time when xtreme was a vector app that happen to use bitmaps rather cleverly in the making of vector objects
this has expanded now to a point where I am not at all sure which of the three strings: 'vector' 'fun-with-photos' or 'HTML generation' is the most important in terms of the product itself; but know I still only need the first
in the course of this many things have had to be changed - some great things have been added, but workflows have seen some disruption - in some cases quite heavy disruption
I guess some of us want it both ways :eek: - cherry pick the new stuff and keep the old ways :D
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
It would be a great Idea to have separate products.
Although I don't "feel" the web impact in my work that much (apart from paste with layers), I imagine it would be easier for developers to have a designated application, not always being having to knit in between constraints.
The Web functionality wouldn't get in the way of drawing ones and vice versa.
I don't mind the photo tools, in fact I use levels a lot.
Having a dedicated "Professional" tool would less convey that "Jack of all trades" lens flares impression.
Everybody likes to use a "Professional" tool :)
Marc
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
The web design market is much larger than vector and I would imagine that the development budget for Xara has been substantially increased by the addition of the latest web functionality. Hopefully the next version will have been expanded in both directions.
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
Xara could make a Web Designer like version of Xtreme.
WD is Xtreme with most of it's controls taken away.
In other words instead of stripping away at the internals of the software, just eliminate half of it's buttons.
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
Eliminating buttons won't layer retention go away. ;)
And I do not want to be confronted with a blasted popup every time I paste. :rolleyes:
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
Hi everyone,
Can I suggest that it would be more useful to pursue ways of fixing those individual problems within the existing product versions (as some posts above have suggested) rather than thinking about new versions of the program, which are highly unlikely to happen for all sorts of reasons.
For one thing: The "Pro" version, by definition, will always contain all functionality and so that version, at least, needs to have any problems in it fixed because the functions or clashes can't be removed.
Also, more specialised versions of the program would make the product line very confusing for customers and difficult to handle w.r.t maintenance, releases, support and upgrades.
So a "lean" version is not a realistic option (and one person's definition of "lean" will always differ from another's).
The intention is that new features ideally should not adversely impact on existing functions and that you should be able to simply ignore the functions you don't use. (Remember that in the creative process, you may find unexpected uses for tools in the future.)
The slowness of loading Photoshop plugins is unfortunate. Not sure we can do anything about that but the workaround, if you don't use them, is just to reset the plugins path so that Xtreme doesn't try to load them.
We made a mistake with the Paste/Layer functionality. We didn't realise that you relied so much on Paste putting everything on a single layer.
Happilly, there is a workaround for that issue too! There's another of Xara's famous secret-squirrel registry settings to make it work the old way. In the registry, set Options\Clipboard\MultiLayerClipboard to 0.
Phil
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
I see smiling faces Phil - thanks for that :-bd<:-P
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
Great response Phil, many thanks - much appreciated.
One for the next XaReg update I imagine.
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
Yes another XaReg update will be forthcoming. Thanks Phil!
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
Oh yaaayyy. Phil!!! thx thx thx. <:-P indeed.
And TIA to Bill for updating XaReg. :-bd
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
Just make sure you don't cut and Paste a soft group without checking to see if it is has "multi-layered" objects.
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
Quote:
Originally Posted by
handrawn
put a bit simplistically..
this has expanded now to a point where I am not at all sure which of the three strings: 'vector' 'fun-with-photos' or 'HTML generation' is the most important in terms of the product itself; but know I still only need the first
This sums up my situation too. A fourth string - DTP - also interests me and I always look out for the developments in this area, although there is a long way to go. It would be great to be able to dispense with Indesign.
I support what Phil says too. I'll carry on buying upgrades provided there is enough extra in my two 'strings' of interest, irrespective of the rest of the developments.
In my use of the program I haven't encountered the problems cited in this thread.
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Re: How about lean version of Xtreme
Hi Tony,
I will keep upgrading Xtreme Pro and other Xara apps as long as I am still around and Xara continues to create them. :)
Even with a few issues, Xara (in my opinion) creates the greatest programs around. :)
My initial post requesting a lean version was a personal wish but in no way would keep me from enjoying Xtreme Pro as my primary drawing application. :cool::)