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Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
Hi all,
Apologies for my absence lately, holidays and sickness's have been straining support lately and keeping me busy. I'll try to poke into the forums some more in the coming days.
I understand there has been a bit a explosion of disagreement over the latest change to prevent the squashing and distortion of text. Truthfully this change is new to me also, and I believe the decision was made with the intention of preventing users (especially new users) from accidentally distorting their images and text. With text especially for websites, this would get exported as 100% aspect ratio so the changes wouldn't be seen.
As a work around, you could use the mould tool (Shift + F6), or alternatively select the image with the fill tool, hold Ctrl + Shift and drag one of the handles. This will stretch the image, and to uncrop it you can select the photo enhance tool, then click the photo and drag the side handles as normal. This will only work for images, for text I'm afraid you would still have to use the mould tool.
It's also been requested of me to gather some examples of text and image distortion for those higher up so I can show them the usefulness of it to them. If you guys can send me some examples that would be fantastic and I can send it onto them.
I know emotions are running high at the moment but please keep it civil and on-topic. If I can get back to management with some constructive comments and examples, we can make this work for you :) If you have anything else you want me to look into, please either PM me or start a new thread, let's keep this to text and image distortion issues.
Many thanks
Rob
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
Sometimes it is useful to condense the width of text a little. And honestly when Xara tries to make things easier for new users it almost always irritates old users. At the very least have a keystroke to over ride this.
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
Hi Rob. Thanks for some response.
Quote:
I believe the decision was made with the intention of preventing users (especially new users) from accidentally distorting their images
I never saw any indication of this in the release notes. In fact I believe all current users and any new ones see this strange behavior as a bug. If I create a vector shape it appears with 8 resizing handles as previously it did with images. Selecting the top/bottom/left/right centre handles allowed for resizing in that plane. Holding down shift whilst doing so increased/decreased the resizing equally in that plane.
Why does the decision to change this make it easier for new users? You're suggestions work but it's far from intuitive.
Was this introduced to fit in with the new auto-resizing feature? If so, in my opinion, you've broken the program to fit a feature that not many people will use. Bring in the new feature by all means but don't break the remainder of the program in the process :(
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Egg Bramhill
Why does the decision to change this make it easier for new users? You're suggestions work but it's far from intuitive.
Sorry I'm not sure what you mean, this change was to prevent the distortion of images and text - vector shapes remain unaffected. This change doesn't have anything to do with the auto-fit feature which would never squish anything in the first place.
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
no rob it was introduced to prevent those who don't know what they are doing from messing up at the expense of those who do - 'distortion' is often a requirement!! [aka morphing]
if you are going along those lines can you please remove all automatic switching of tools when double clicking, dragging/dropping etc as I have lost count of the number of times they have made me swear or worse; squishing I don't have a problem with
:D
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
handrawn
no rob it was introduced to prevent those who don't know what they are doing from messing up at the expense of those who do - 'distortion' is often a requirement!! [aka morphing]
if you are going along those lines can you please remove all automatic switching of tools when double clicking, dragging/dropping etc as I have lost count of the number of times they have made me swear or worse; squishing I don't have a problem with
:D
I'm not disagreeing with you, nor have I in any of the previous replies.
I need to take some examples back of why this is important and what why users deliberately distort images and text.
As also mentioned in the original message, please keep on topic as well!
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
Matching the profile of an existing bitmap banner to replace a crest or flag with vector.
Acorn
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
Rob - I think I did both of those things :)
and if pointy-head programmers don't understand why the deliberate distortion of images can be useful, maybe they should be designing something other than drawing progr.... oh yes they are, they are designing website creation software [silly me]
mind you I think distorted images probably have their use there too if only 'for effect' - no disrespect, but has anyone at Gaddesden Place really got a problem with that kindergarten level concept? [which is an example and therefore on topic]
sorry to go on, I'll stop
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
Stretching or squishing an image or text is a totally instinctive feature Xara has offered until now.
I can still skew an image.
I can still skew text.
Currently, a designer can "accidently" rotate a text block by a small angle to find it is now rendered as an image.
Ditto skew.
To remove stretching and squishing is simply wrong.
I am sorry that Xara has not made the decision to render text with CSS3 Tranform where possible.
Acorn
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
Guys Rob is asking for actual examples. Put together a .xar file or post a png image showing how you would use squishing/stretching. Want this feature back? Lets fill this thread with examples!
Text squishing and stretching can be very useful for headlines. It used to be so simple to fit headlines that way. It also adds a bit of visual variety to your headlines while still maintaining a single font.
In the attached .xar file I have 2 examples of how i used to use stretching/sqiushing on headlines. I would be happy with a modifier key I could hold down while dragging side and top /bottom handles to allow me to have that ability again.
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
here is another example this time it is a bit of descriptive text under an image. The image has text repelling set so there is only going to be so much space for the description/by line/ etc.
Again I had to reset the aspect ratio and play around with it by trial and error to get a good result and it took me far longer than it would have if I could have just grabbed the side of the text area and squished it.
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
Thank you angelize, this is very useful to send back to them!
Do you have any examples for images as well?
Many thanks
Rob
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
One use I put stretch and distort image to is when fitting a cloned copy of part of an image onto another part of the same image, one sometimes needs to stretch and distort the clone slightly to make it fit and match the destination as desired.
Can't to that with 15
The Ctrl + Shift / fill tool workaround is not practice for me in this case.
An ALT modifier to revert to original behaviour would be preferred. (or simply have a registry setting which reverts to original behaviour)
Note: in the many years I have used Xara I have never once accidentally unintentionally distorted an image. Even if I did, it's an easy fix.
I am definitely staying with 12 if the original behaviour isn't possible
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
Do you have any Xar files showing this? What angelize did with text in the example xar file she sent was absolutely perfect.
Thanks
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
angelize
... Put together a .xar file or post a png image showing how you would use squishing/stretching. Want this feature back? Lets fill this thread with examples!
Why? - it should just be fixed... [and I gave examples earlier - I have not got the time to play beta tester anymore]
what worries me about this thread is that instead of just restoring a basic bitmap editing fuction that is so fundamental it should never be in question, Xara is considering implementing another of their 'oh look a fancy new way of doing something that will probably have yet more unintended consequences elsewhere' features
maybe they could just implement another class of object that is actually a bitmap pure and simple for those of us who need it, and not a fill in a shape container pretending to be one -heck I might even upgrade
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
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Originally Posted by
handrawn
Why? - it should just be fixed... [and I gave examples earlier - I have not got the time to play beta tester anymore]
Because I'm trying to convince those who make the decisions that this is important to have and they would like to see some real examples of this. Saying this is just how something should be isn't going to change anything unfortunately.
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
ok, I relent, here is a very simple example of what I, and I think Promidi were talking about
look - this isn't rocket science, it is very very basic stuff
at this point even my usual hyperbole is failing me...
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
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Originally Posted by
handrawn
ok, I relent, here is a very simple example of what I, and I think Promidi were talking about
look - this isn't rocket science, it is very very basic stuff
at this point even my usual hyperbole is failing me...
Your example is exactly what I was talking about. I actually thought my verbal description was enough.
Simply put, I want the ability to stretch and distort images (and clones of parts of images) returned, otherwise, version 12 will definitely be my last version of Xara.
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
I don't understand this dicussion. Every Vector Editor (SerifDraw, Corel, AI, Affinity, Inkscape, OODraw etc.) has this future. Xara did also, until now? Why?
Are we users to stupid to know our aspect ratio of our pics?
A stupid answer like that of Xara to protect his user from unwanted change in pic ratio, I've never heard.
Why don't You say: „Hey User, it's a fault. We correct it soon.” Than do it and we are happy with a feauture that was there, will be there and may be there again.
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
Rob - Maybe this is the answer. Designer Pro X is marketed as a "professional" design program. And it is. The market for this product is people who want and need more high end tools features. It is insulting to users of this product that Xara thinks they might accidentally do something to text that will not work in HTML. Treat us like professionals.
If Xara want to help new users then make these changes to Photo & Graphic Designer which is more entry level.
As a rule good designers to not distort type. But good designers also do not follow rules. There are cases where a font that is slightly condensed or slight extended looks better with the design. Designers must make those decisions.
If Xara wants to save us from ourselves, then rather than take away a feature or action, flag this with the same kind of warning we get when we use a non-standard font for a website.
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
what you say makes some sense Gary - except the bit about the flag - unless that can be supressed in registry or otherwise.. because for me the whole point is speed and ease - having to move to yet another tool, use both hands, and risk unwanted distortion on the other axis, is just tying one hand behind the back [and what faith can we have that this fill tool option itself will persist?] - in making something 'safe' for one set, another set of users has to put up with 'unsafe' - ludicrous
stick with 12 or use another program
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
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Originally Posted by
Rob-Xar
Because I'm trying to convince those who make the decisions that this is important to have and they would like to see some real examples of this. Saying this is just how something should be isn't going to change anything unfortunately.
I'll repeat what I wrote to Kate in another thread...
Quote:
When Xara thinks it knows better than the people using their software, that should be the first clue you are doing something wrong.
And I mean it. If the PTB have to be convinced that what we do or want to do is "not the way it should be done," then get rid of the PTB and bring in someone with the vision to propel Xara products forward into the 21st century...because it is regressing backwards when it should be moving forwards.
What's next? Limiting fonts to only the dozen web-safe fonts? Not that it would affect me but that would kill any usage of the thing for web work. But as long as you (Xara) are trying to make the application idiot proof, I can come up with a dozen or more ways to try (in the end, that is a fool's errand, though).
I like Gary's thought of a warning as long as it only affects publishing to the web.
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
BTW.
ALL Professional layout applications have the ability to set horizontal and vertical scaling of type, typically even within the paragraph and/or character style sheets, aside from on the fly local formatting. In fact, this is typically part of the justification settings in a style, aside from a separate setting.
It is just mind-boggling to think that Xara removed this from a vector design application.
Why not actually learn how design works and how your products actually are used by consulting people in the field rather than sit in a mansion dreaming this crap up?
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
+1 Mike
At the very least, it would have been wise to float this idea in the beta forum to get feedback before arbitrarily making this decision.
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
Going from Non-Destructieve Editing to Self-Destructive Management; The Story behind the Decline and Fall of a once-great Company.
Management has lost touch with its client base and is clearly looking down on it while pursuing airy objectives from its ivory tower.
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
Come on guys, Rob asked you in a positive manner for some feedback on use cases, he didn't declare war! Does anyone have some additional examples?
Kate Moir
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
Kate, I don't know if I'm included in your reply but I was talking about the powers that be and not Rob or the other helpful devs.
Was I off-topic? Yes. Did I use my update service to 'upgrade' to XDP 15? No. Will I soon? No. Do I like XDP 12? Yes. Am I hoping for some value for money? Yes. Am I getting value for the recently raised, uncalled for and ridiculously high update service fee? No.
Am I happy about the direction Xara is taking? No. Do you like how management is dealing and communicating with the client base at TG, including its star performers who display such high levels of dedication and service? No. Am I tired of hearing all sorts of excuses, broken promises and obfuscations from management? Yes. Do you expect management will get the picture any time soon? No.
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
kate you don't need examples if you understand - you don't do you IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE it's common sense to anyone who uses the program in the real world
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
I know this 'lets have examples' crap - it means you are wrong footed and you need a fig-leaf - stuff that - FIX IT
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
webmaster
Come on guys, Rob asked you in a positive manner for some feedback on use cases, he didn't declare war! Does anyone have some additional examples?
Kate Moir
Kate,
It takes time to plan and execute the addition to, a change to, and/or the removal of features. For some of this stuff, wouldn't be prudent to consult people who use an application when changes to or the removal of features is part of the plan? Wouldn't that potentially save some time, effort and money for other items on Xara's To-Do list?
That's what a modern, responsive company does. It doesn't rely solely on its own devices without input from outside the Ivory Tower.
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
nicely put - wish I had your way with words - maybe I'll do a video and put it on Youtube.. catagory: hubris :)
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
webmaster
Come on guys, Rob asked you in a positive manner for some feedback on use cases, he didn't declare war! Does anyone have some additional examples?
Kate Moir
I don't understand Your and Xaras/Magix logig.
Nobody want a war but things they were in and missed we want back.
Why do Xara steps backward when the whole grafic world go forward?
In a tread i promissed angry with Magix. Mybe the angry came without Magix too but what you deliver with v15 is the top!!!
Vielen Dank für den Scheiß!
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
handrawn
nicely put - wish I had your way with words - maybe I'll do a video and put it on Youtube.. catagory: hubris :)
I suspect that the on-line direction that is being pursued is forcing Xara into a design corner.
Here is a badly crafted example: Attachment 119747
Acorn
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
Takes 1-2 seconds in v 15.
Attachment 119748
But, it isn't dynamic. I guess at the aspect ratio and it's close, dunno how accurate.
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boy
Going from Non-Destructieve Editing to Self-Destructive Management; The Story behind the Decline and Fall of a once-great Company.
Management has lost touch with its client base and is clearly looking down on it while pursuing airy objectives from its ivory tower.
Exactly, a fish rots from the head down
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
ok I calmed down a bit...
it is galling to have to wait for improvements on the drawing side... it has been sorta tiresome to be told, repeatingly, that we do not have to update until we see features we want ... but can you not see it is now rubbing salt into the wound to remove a feature that we use all the time...
speed and ease is of the essence here or we would all be still making shadows and blends from base shapes
@acorn - oh I like that :)
Quote:
is forcing Xara into a design corner
that is entirely possible, but if so then they aught to come clean and admit they are done with the flexible approach and have nailed their colours to the mast of 'designing by numbers'
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
Sorry if someone already showed this or if I'm off base here, but I didn't have the patience to read the whole thread....
I feel like I'm missing something... about the skewing/distorting images thing... if I'm right, yes you can.
Cliff
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
Oh... and for text... I use the 'text' aspect ratio tool. I know it's faster/easier just to pull/push a handle, but with the aspect ratio tool you could do individual letters and words which you could not do just with the handles. And you can be exact/precise.
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Re: Image and text skewing / distorting megathread
Here is an example of an out of bounds effect that uses two copies of the same image one cut out and the back one squashed to create the illusion of the cat sticking its head right out of the photo.
Edit: this is a very quick rough example and I am aware that Mr.Kitty is missing his whiskers on one side.