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I know this has been discussed in the forum before, but I don't find the thread anymore. Anyhow:
When I scale an object horizontally or vertically, then individual parts are moved, not scaled. This is, of course, not what I want. I figured that I can press Alt when using the handles, and then scaling is back to normal. However, when entering dimensions manually, then the issue persists.
What is the workaround for Xara's scaling oddness?
What program? Can you provide an example?
I think you are referring to Lock Aspect Ratio.
When this option is enabled, selections scale proportionately. When it is disabled, selections scale independently horizontally or vertically.
Designer Pro X11.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred C
Unscaled:Quote:
Can you provide an example?
Attachment 110045
After entering W 1000px in the Infobar, then hitting enter:
Attachment 110044
I'd expect the drawing to scale, but instead some unwanted magic is happening.
No, and that's disabled.Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpriester
The question is: Bug or feature? And is there an easy workaround?
Concerning workaround, I found that the issue does not happen when scaling width and height. Say the drawing is 1000×1000 px², and you want to change width to 1200 px, then:
- Scale the drawing in both directions, for example to: 800×800 px²
- Scale the drawing in both directions to 1200×1000 px².
Cumbersome, obviously.
Scaling is proportional in both directions. Stretching is what you are doing when only one dimension is altered and the lock aspect is not active.
Seems it may be related to groups; could you post the .xar file for your .png examples?
first, what template did you use?
also, scaling, no matter how it's done will scale everything. going from 1000 to 1200 including openings and if not on a separate layer, doors, stair treads, etc. will stretch 20% also. no matter what, it's gonna be hard to stretch bits and pieces without affecting others
one thing you can do so it doesn't stretch from the middle is after selecting what you want to stretch then just to the left of the x and y position on the top change the origin position from center to the middle left or right block (kinda looks like a rubik's cube). then it'll stretch from that direction and not proportionally from the center
Your illustrations do not show scaling. The eyes in the center remain the same size. But in the second example the left and right sides of the drawing have been moved outward as my attachment shows.
That's Xara lingo then. In other software, scaling is also in just one direction. For example, in Rhino 3D, there is Scale1D, Scale2D, and Scale3D.Quote:
Originally Posted by mwenz
Attachment 110048Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred C
I tried web, print, and photo.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeymopar
That's the intention, but not what Xara is doing.Quote:
also, scaling, no matter how it's done will scale everything.
your example.xar stretched in width only to 1200 for me by entering 1200 for "W". height remained the same (1084px)
or did i miss something???
(and also, like i said, you can make scaling in just one direction by changing the origin point tho it won't matter if you're scaling every single object)
I'm not sure what I'm missing here?!
Assuming I've understood the OP's problem.
I think Gary has already answered the question as to what is happening.
The original image is 770x1085px
With the 'Lock aspect ratio' not selected, I entered 1000 into the width. And as expected, only the width is altered. (First pic)
With the 'Lock aspect ratio' selected, I entered 1000 into the width. And as expected, both the width and the height altered. (Second pic)
Select the images and see the measurements.
So, can someone explain to me what the problem is?
I'm using XDP11.
ionno Rik...
maybe something lost in translation cos i thought Gary's reply was the solution also if the entire workspace was to be stretched in one direction only by entering a value directly
so now i'm lost too
:D
Carefully look at the images I posted earlier. They illustrate the problem.
I marquee select everything and enter 1000 into the width, and all works the way it should do.
If I have the aspect ratio selected, it works as it should do. If I have the aspect ratios deselected, it works as it should do.
So, I cannot reproduce what you say.
I have had a close look at your images, but, cannot get it to do the same.
Interesting, that works for me too. Now, click on the group, and then enter 1000 px as width. That's where the problem shows on my system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rik
Same here; marquee all and enter 1000 width works (also stretching the 'eye'), but clicking group, entering 1000 width shows the problem. I can get it to work correctly if I hide/lock the annotation layer, select the group and ungroup it, then either dragging it to 1000 or entering 1000. You can apply 'Soft Group' to keep stuff together after the ungroup command.Quote:
Originally Posted by feklee
Did you create this in XDP!! or with Rhino? I'm curious because I also work with Rhino 3D.
Attachment 110052
Even more curious about how this was created. The walls are made up of many shapes, perhaps affecting scaling.
:confused:
I'm sure it's down to the software that created the vector shapes originally. Scaling with aspect locked works as expected, but scaling without aspect locked in the horizontal plane creates odd behavior. The left & right side of the group widen but there's a middle section that remains in the middle unscaled.
To stop this behavior, ungroup and then apply a softgroup (as someone suggested earlier). This now works in an expected manner.
ermm...Egg....
unless you have a different example.xar than Rik or i that's how it already stretches. no need to ungroup then softgroup. can stretch it already horizontally with everything completely being scaled horizontally. that's why Rik and I (and i think even Fred) were at a loss. i don't see it at all stretching the way it is for you how it was downloaded and opened. what changed ????
also, instead of having a million shapes to create the walls, just make 2 rectangles, different widths for exterior and interior walls. paste and rotate as many as needed and place them snapping to corners/edges. and then when finished just select all walls and combine>add shapes. if any editing needs to be done then use shape editor to delete nodes.
just thinking to simplify the entire process...
edit: hmm. reading Fred's post over i see it happens if you select the group itself from the page and layer gallery only instead of just marquee selecting it all in the workspace. and then it only happens grabbing the handles. if you enter in a value at the top for the width then everything still stretches horizontally (including the middle parts)
ah-ha. it's also a "web" document which is known to have issues stretching things horizontally only. if you change it to "print" then you can select the group in page and layer gallery and it'll properly stretch everything by just the middle handle too. if you wanna keep it "web" template then hold alt down while dragging the middle handle horizontally to keep everything exactly as the example.xar file is and to stretch everything horizontally by selecting it in the page and layer gallery
project should be started using any template other than web page or photo
I understand what you're saying Mikey, but that odd scaling is not a function of Xara vectors, web or print document. It's down to the creation software :)
Tell you what I've found.
(Unless someone else has found it already!)
If I marquee select everything (which includes the eyes), then things perform the way they should.
But...
If you simply select the drawing (which is grouped), then you get the problem feklee is talking about.
Interestingly, I've just updated my course discussing this web feature. It is known as "group squashing" (also search help file) and applies only in web documents. When a group is stretched/squashed, it is not done so affinely like would happen in print documents; instead the constituent objects aren't stretched and only their positions are changed. Apparently, the rationale for this is that in web documents, when stretching/squashing headers or footers eg in mobile site variants, it's more useful for this kind of squashing behaviour. As you've discovered, you can Alt-toggle to revert back to affine scaling. Alternatively, you can use a print document or permanently turn this off by setting the registry entry Dragging\EnableGroupSquash to 0.Quote:
Originally Posted by feklee
WHAT? were you on holiday a couple of weeks ago when this "issue" with web document was discussed >HERE<?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhris
heh :D :D
registry entry now edited and it's beautiful. web doc all stretchy again like all the other docs/design templates.
thx Xhris!
This has been a useful example document to experiment with.
With the shapes all selected (marqueed), click on one of the edge control points and hold it down.
Now look at the status line, which describes (tersely) the variety of effects the meta-keys contribute.
Drag the object to extend it.
Still with the control held down, press the Ctrl, Shift & Alt keys to discover the effects.
Don't hold these keys down before holding the control point.
I don't think any of this depends on it being a prin or web pages; simply in web-land the Alt selection has been pre-selected.
Regarding the OP's request on how to do the above, entering values into the control boxes, the simple answer is you can't.
The workaround is to understand the above and to zoom the work area large enough to allow finer pointer movement to get to the required width.
Acorn
Sorry for my late reply. I appreciate all your suggestions!
Yes, I created the floor plan with Rhino. Thanks for the suggestion with the soft group, which does work!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred C
Blame it on Rhino’s Hatch command. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred C
Thanks for the video. It’s a nice summary of the issue!Quote:
Originally Posted by Egg Bramhill
Only I disagree that it’s an issue caused by the Rhino. 3rd party software cannot change the way Xara’s scaling algorithm works.
I wrote earlier that I unsuccessfully tried Print document, but that must’ve been a mistake. Now, after changing to that document type, scaling works as expected.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeymopar
Thanks for mentioning the term! In fact I remembered that when I first encountered the feature, and – as I wrote – I did experiment with changing document type, but I must’ve done something wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhris
Never realized that, another awesome feature in Xara!Quote:
Originally Posted by Acorn
A really excellent TGer response back. I'm glad you've bottomed out your issues.
Yes, Xara have developed some very feature-rich applications.
I know they use JIRA Issues for tracking their development and bug fixes.
Where they are lacking is incorporating User Stories to help position the behaviours of their products.
A template of a User Story would be very simple: As a <type of user>, I want <some goal> so that <some benefit results>.
If TG Posters thought in this way too, a lot of real value in the responses would go to better understanding of our much-loved applications.
Acorn
What Hatch did you apply; I'd like to try to reproduce the glitch in Rhino?Quote:
Originally Posted by feklee
TIA
SolidQuote:
Originally Posted by Fred C
:salute:Thanks. I'll try it this weekend, time permitting.