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A perspective website and collateral development client is asking me, "How many people use Xara for web development?" I've looked on Xara's website and of course it is obvious they are not really promoting their web design capabilities any more. I did see that they have over "1,000,000+" Xara brand users. But how would I find out the stats for just web design software users?
I'll see if someone from Xara can respond to this.
Thanks! I appreciate it. :)
Xara's website no longer markets Xara's vector/website/photo software products Sorengen, this is done by Magix. Xara's main thrust is now on Xara Cloud :)Quote:
I've looked on Xara's website and of course it is obvious they are not really promoting their web design capabilities any more.
Where did you get the stats for 1M ?
Xara is great for basic to medium non database website. I would otherwise use wordpress for anything data driven. I choose xara because I do not deal with ecommerce or database sites. I have driven my business for 14 years and everything I do pretty much is with xara, from logos to print and website. I would not imagine using anything else.
Why is it even relevant?Quote:
Originally Posted by sorengen
He/She should judge you on your portfolio and your abilty to build the website they want with any tool.
Yeah, I'm aware :(... but their name is still on the product - hence me referring to their name in my question. Thanks!
Yeah, I'm aware ... but their name is still on the product - hence me referring to their name in my question. Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Egg Bramhill
YES! Xara is my 'go-to' since 1999! The vast majority of my client base I can serve with Xara - which is my strong preference. However, there are a few that do need e-commerce and database driven sites and I then end up collaborating with someone who has those back-end skills that I have not developed. I, too, design my collaterals in Xara. I recommend Xara all the time! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by behzad
This is where I found the 1mil stat: https://xara.com/about-us/ - Attachment 127712
Not sure why it is relevant to them, I did not ask. But sometimes the concern with the Xara platform is unfamiliarity (fear of the unknown), how much support will there be if they need help with their site in the future (because they want to manage the site themselves once it is completed) - so they will have to learn how to use the software as it is very different from WP. Using Xara is a different way of thinking if you have been managing WP sites. Albeit, Xara is MUCH easier IMO, but still different and presents a learning curve.Quote:
Originally Posted by pauland
I deliberately avoid customers that wish to manage the site themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by sorengen
I don't feel it's worth the hassle.
I couldn't agree more Paul. I wouldn't like to say how many of my clients in the past have requested editing facilities and never used them (CMS sites) or if they have they come back 12-18 months later asking you how to do so as they've forgotten but don't want to pay for this new request.Quote:
I deliberately avoid customers that wish to manage the site themselves.
I also do not accept any clients that want to manage their own site. Too many problems and usually they are penny pinchers.
it might be that the client[s] emphasis is more about who to go to if you become unavailable, what sort of 'pool' is there, rather than doing it themselves necessarily
that would be a major concern of mine...
A possible concern a client could have is if they need to have another designer or design firm work on or take over the site.
For example if they fire their current designer or if the current designer quits.
indeed...
Then the world would be dominated by WordPress ...... which it probably is already!
It really depends how big this website is.
Re-creating an existing website using any technology of choice is fairly easy for small websites. The real work in website development is in the initial designs not follow up amendments.
[ Digression - I have spent a few days now working on an IOS app. I have little to show for it because the problem is with designing it in the first place. It will spring into existence when I feel confident about design issues ].
I suspect that most clients wanted to manage their websites do so for cost reasons.
I only produce small websites and I charge nominal amounts for small changes.
Once websites get to be sizeable (whatever that is) it's another matter entirely. I think the management of large websites is more suitable for CMS based systems than static website tools.
a basic WP site, using only themes/plugins and no CSS modification tweaks is easy - I know because even I can do it, no more difficult than getting into the tools of an animation program like harmony, in fact easier depending on how well versed you are in animation principles
but if CSS is involved, I'd leave it up to you guys; it may be easier than I think, but most things are when you know how....
Excellent points! Clients who need 'small' websites and are happy for me to manage them are absolutely ideal! I also offer low cost management fees or, or I offer a tutorial 'class' for basic training. You are correct, handrawn, putting together and editing a WP site on a basic level is not hard to do. I, too, have done this ... and have clients that hired me to manage their WP websites... but it is very different from Xara's program. And if you've only ever worked with CMS sites, then it seems hard for people to wrap their brains around a different way of thinking.
Thanks, Everyone, for the great feedback! Still not sure how many people use Web Designer (all versions) as their design software, but I've enjoyed the side conversation! :D
FYI - for those that avoid clients that want to edit their sites
There is a Simple CMS script that will work with Xara that allows you to set sections in your Xara website pages that the client can edit. It is easy to setup and install. It is very easy to add to Xara. The customer can only change the sections that you define. And the price is ridiculously cheap. I just retested it and it took about 10 minute to build a site with the editable sections. You can see a demo at the link below. If you want to try it out then choose to extend the demo for a week. That way you can keep the backend dashboard active at the demo site for a week while you play around with inserting sections in your Xara site.
https://www.phpjabbers.com/simple-cms/
There are two install options. Use the javascript option (xara doesn't do well with php) open and just past the script in a xara Placeholder with HTML code (body)
Did I mention that it was ridiculous inexpensive? A single site license is $19 or a developer's license (allows you to use on any of your website) is $29.
I think that whatever the cost there's still going to be plenty of support needed with client screwing something up or wondering how can they do X, Y & Z.
onlye,
Have you used this simple-cms on a working site? The reason I ask is, I am not sure by looking at the information on phpjabbers site where the files would be stored, on your web site site or phpjabbers site? The information says you can upload different files and types for the cms portion.
I use a form that is PHP based on my web site now. What type of problems did you have with PHP and Xara?
In looking at their phpjabbers scripts, I am wondering if you could run their blog script in Xara Placeholder and now have a working blog as part of your site.
Thanks
Ray
No doubt. But it is an option to allow limited access by a client. Something simple like a restaurant that wants to change the description of the daily special on the home page can make this useful. I really am not interested in moving to WordPress so this provides me a sometimes answer to clients.Quote:
Originally Posted by pauland
My answer is that I'll do small updates at nominal costs, but it's only a strategy for websites with a low change rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by onlye
I think the Xara cloud version is probably a better way to go and possibly Xtom's solution.
Ray,Quote:
Originally Posted by RKissane
All the phpjabber scripts are designed to be installed on your hosting site. The install typically takes about 15 to 20 minutes. You have to setup a mysql database and then install the script. The install is not complicated and phpjabbers will do the install for you. So far their support has been good. I have paid for customization to several scripts. Customization pricing has been very reasonable. The most expensive customization was on a business directory script. I paid about $160 to make it do what the $1000 app the customer started with didn't do. I use reseller hosting accounts at Hostgator and inmotion and both work fine.
My experience with the PHP scripts and Xara is not so good. I use ecwid for eCommerce and it does not play well with Xara's variants. Looks fine on desktop or mobile but messes up with multiple variants. I use the blog on several sites but the PHP webpage that holds the blog is built with another tool (I also use WYSIWYG Web Builder). So you can have a Xara site and you just point the menu to the external webpage for the blog.
The Simple CMS gives an option for javascript or PHP for the host site placeholder. With Xara I use javascript and it works. If I build the site with WYSIWYG Web Builder I use the PHP option.
The blog is another option to allow you clients edit privileges to your site without a great deal of impact on the actual site.
onlye,
Thanks for the reply, a lot of information to wrap my head around.
If you are already using WYSIWYG Web Builder, I see it has blog extension as part of the package. Is there a reason you went with phpjabbers blog script and WYSIWYG Web Builder?
Also why do you use both Xara and WYSIWYG Web Builder? Does Xara give you something that WYSIWYG Web Builder doesn't do as good or lacks?
Thanks
Ray
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKissane
Ray,
Have been using Xara for about over a decade for graphics and then websites. A few years ago I added ecwid for eCommernce. Soon found out ecwid and Xara don't play nice together. I found WYSIWYG Web Builder as a result of a search for a tool to use with ecwid. My new sites are built with Web Builder, but I still use Xara almost daily for graphics.
I stumbled across PHPjabbers and got the Simple CMS first. Then added a number of the other scripts including the blog. You are correct that Web Builder has a CMS with blog but I haven't learned it yet, but learning now based on the new Version 16 with lots of nice new goodies.
One of the companies I contract with did the $299 get the entire collection of 65 scripts and over the last few months, we have used several for clients that needed things like; online appt scheduling, blogs, news sites, event calendars, business directories, product catalogs, image galleries. They have been a great way to move from static websites to sites that provide some business functions.
If you want to take a closer look I would be happy to do a virtual session with you. Happy to share the knowledge with fellow developers.