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History Behind The TG version of "Yanone Kaffesatz": Koffee TG!
My website template uses Yanone kaffesatz fonts (I love them) and I was wondering if I could somehow edit or add one special character that displays ugly (the char. is "č" - I guess it gets replaced because it is absent in the font).
As I can see in the template files, there are many font related files such as .ttf etc.
So if I edit that and add a letter Č in let us say .ttf file, then it would display as such?
Additionally, how do I edit that? (I have the Typelight font editor).
Thanks for any help!
BTW a complete newby, so please handle with care (search all forums here but did not find any similar threads yet).
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Hello urednik, Welcome to Talkgraphics :)
There is a lot more to editing a font than simply typing in a missing character. you have to create the missing glyph in the font editor. Perhaps someone with a bit more knowledge on this than me will come along and help out :)
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
The first task is to obtain written permission from the author of the font. I have asked some authors before and been given gracious permission by all but a single author. So please contact the author.
What may complicate the issue is the author has created a "Pro" set of that font that I suspect has a full set of glyphs.
In any case, you will need a font editor to make the composite glyph or a discreet one. If you get the permission and a font editor, we can walk you through how to go about this.
Take care, Mike
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Hi urednik, welcome to TalkGraphics.
As Frances said there is much more to adding a glyph to a font than simply typing in a character. Adding to an existing font is a little more complicated than if you create a font from scratch. Do you have a vector graphic editor you use or are proficient using?
I have never used the font editor you have so I can only provide some generic tips. You will need to dig into your product's documentation for specifics.
If you have not checked out the software's site you will need to start there and find out all you can about the requirements and the specifications.
A quick look at the site told me the free version can only save the first 50 characters so the paid version will be required for what you want to do.
If you have the pdf documentation look into it and find what vector file format it can import for the individual glyphs. You may be able to draw the glyph within the Typelight font editor, it will require you to learn the drawing tools.
One think you will need to know is what dimensions the existing font is using for the glyphs otherwise your added character will be either too small or too large. Some testing can get dimensions that can be used if exact values are not available.
Let us know if you have any questions.
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Thanks guys. I contacted the author. Well the author has obviously not yet created that glyph, however it should not be hard to make one, since we already have the letter "C", and the letter "Č" just misses a kind of a circumflex that is already used in his (provided) letters "Š" and "Ž". So it seems to be a matter of copy and paste. My Typelight font editor seems not to have that limitation as you mentioned, however if I get the authors permission, would any of you be so kind to do this for me? Regular, bold and italics (6x copy paste as I understand??? ;).
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Hi Urenik—
If you have the permission of the font creator, and can post a screen capture of what you'd like the character to look like, a visual example, and post the font as a zipped up attachment, I can add it to the typeface. Bold, italic, and so on.
My Best,
Gary
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Well he autoreplied that he is gone out of computer reach for 3 weeks now ...
GreAAAT!.
Gare, thanks, how about a testdrive? I will not publish it public until he answers. He seems like a decent German young guy, who has not had enough time to make the font complete ;)
If we do not make it public then we are not working against copyright anyway.
Attachment 91747
Gsry thanks in advance. And I sure will report his answer shortly.
As said above the letter č is always the same as letter "c" + a circumflex that can be copied from the letter "š" which is in the font.
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
What I'll do is see if this is possible.
Given my success, I'll wait until you get the author's permission before I post the font, and in that act, sort of release it to the world.
:)
My Best,
Gary
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Okay: I've created the characters within a FontLab (*.vfb) file. Technically, this took a little time, but I have absolutely no idea how to call up the Unicode registers for:
Lowercase Latin letter c with caron U+010D
Uppercase Latin letter C with caron U+010C
Attachment 91748
This is where they have to go, so Bill or Mike: can you assist?
The glyphs are currently in 001E and 001F in Unicode view.
TIA,
Gary
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
urednik
As said above the letter č is always the same as letter "c" + a circumflex that can be copied from the letter "š" which is in the font.
^ is a circumflex, ˇ is called a caron (don't want to be anal, but...)
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
I knew what I thought he meant, Frank.
Or did I?
:)
See my previous post. I copied the caron component itself from the s caron characters.
-g
...and what's wrong with being anal?
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Yanone is also missing r-caron and R-caron, so I added them as well, plus the unicode mappings, and tested in Xara
Attachment 91751
Attachment 91752
nothing wrong with being anal on occasion i guess but all the time would be pretty intensely insufferable (:|
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Big Frank—
I just practiced being anal a moment ago.
I removed your finished truetype font as an attachment because no one has permission from the creator of the typeface to modify and distribute it.
I have your file and will be happy to post it for you the moment urednik and/or Yanone posts approval to edit and redistribute the typeface.
This has very little to do with TalkGraphics' policy, except that it conforms to good web practice for respecting creator copyrights.
The only reason I posted the VFB file, which is not a typeface file but instead a resource, a project file (you can't load and use it in Windows)—was for anyone with a good font editor to find the character slots for the new glyphs.
I'm not picking on you Frank, or admonishing you. I'm just being a Moderator, being just a little anal in the CYA sense, and the only time you might not want your backside watched is in the shower.
-g
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
I looked at your work on the typeface, and it's meticulous, Frank.
The registers are correct and you went the extra mile with the additional carot characters.
You really should get paid for your effort.
I hope that urednik or Yanone kaffesatz replies ASAP with an approval/permission.
His Twitter account is https://twitter.com/yanone, if anyone would like to tweet him and ask (again).
My Best,
Gary
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Oh that looks great! Thanks.
Caron (thanks there) is present in the ttf file in the 1250 latin 2 set, but it is not a created glyph yet. It has the numbers 010C and 010D for lowercase.
Do we really need to create a unicode set?
Perhaps this should do, shouldn't it? (perhaps I talks absolute nonsense, but it seems like a nice try to me ;)
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Sorry first now I saw the second page of this thread. Thanks Frank. I respect your decision Gary as well, although I regret it because I would like to test it out if this is working at least. But now we just have to sit and wait.
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Because you cannot accept private messages at this time, I have to make this public, sorry, urednik:
If you yourself have the means to change this font, it is your own business.
As a Moderator of this forum, I cannot allow the posting of material to be downloaded that is not public property, or the creator has not given TalkGraphics express permission to use it. It's the same as posting a licensed copy of software just for testing on this forum. Fonts are software.
Yes, we must wait for permission, but as I posted earlier, you can Tweet the fellow and ask.
My Best,
Gary
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
BTW, along this topic of self-editing for one's own use. Adobe's policy is that one can edit a font to their heart's satisfaction as long as no one else gets their hands on it. An Adobe font thus altered can be used for commercial work. Got that from the horse's mouth in writing. As well, it is posted on their web site.
Which is why it is a good thing to contact a font's author. Many/most individual font authors are pretty good folk. Some houses, like Linotype, on the other hand are very restrictive even when a font contains obvious faults.
Take care, Mike
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Hi everyone! First I want to thank Bill, Frank, Gare, and Mike for stepping up and trying to help urednik :)
However I have decided to remove all links to the font files. Even a zipped file is still re-distributing the font. Gare is right that we need to have permission from the font author before we can post any files here on talkgraphics. I have also pulled Gare's font lab project file because while this file does require the use of a specific program to use it, it is still a form of re-distribution.
The font in question is available for free from Google fonts http://www.google.com/webfonts/speci...one+Kaffeesatz and at the author's site http://www.yanone.de/typedesign/kaffeesatz/ But this does not mean that we have any rights to distribute it here on TG.
I have written to the author to ask permission for us to edit the font and publish the files here at TG. If I hear back from the author I will let you know, and perhaps then this can go forward.
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Yes, I respect that as already said, however this is not altering. Legally it is adding. Now I am not familiar with US system but here in Slovenia it can not be restricted, since it is of no use without our letters, it is like a car without wheels. And many font styles do unfortunately the same. They discriminate Slavic (and moreover Arabic ...) languages, which were centuries ago spread to more than a half of European continent. Now some guys from USA created computers without ever thinking about something else as Germanic or Romance alphabets and we have to suffer that also in 2012 almost on every step: UTF is not supported. This is really frustrating.
So as much as I respect your work, I still can not feel else but frustrated. You can use all fonts, however I can use one third of them. In our era this is pure discrimination. The law which prohibit adding our functionality is therefore against our democratic principles and hence a pure discriminative manipulation.
You might answer that the author has the right not to allow this set to be used for our characters but how would I feel then?
Of what use would such a decision be? Oh wait he maybe wants us to buy a version with my characters, where you can use yours free? It is not in the sense of EU democratic standards.
Sorry to be rude, pardon my English, but this way you can maybe better understand where my cynicism derives from ;)
Anyways I already contacted the author both through mail and Twitter, but his autoreply was convincing. He will for 99% not be able to answer until mid of sept. My intention was not to publish that, but to respect his authorship, solely to test it.
Because there is a big possibility that this would not do. You seem to be sure that the webfont altered in this way would display correctly?
Hope you are wright! Thanks again!
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Hi urednik—
Sadly, very few if any members on TalkGraphics are well enough versed in copyright law to interpret your request to satisfy the letter of copyright laws.
So what we are doing here is erring on the side of caution.
I understand your frustration and do sympathize with you completely. It seems as though something is very close to being in your grasp, but this stupid plate glass window is stopping you.
For what it's worth, TalkGraphics is hosted on a German server, I believe (MAGIX), and whatever legal issues they'd have would be rightfully theirs.
Let us not continue to discuss what international laws might be in effect, because none of us are qualified to debate this. No one at TalkGraphics is trying to start a fight or deliberately make your work harder, urednik.
You brought someone else's typeface to TalkGraphics and asked whether it could be modified, in theory and in practice.
The answer is "yes". I'm sorry that I appeared to give something and then take it away, but it wasn't mine to begin with and I apologize.
Clearly, there are people who are willing to help. We just need permission from the creator.
Respectfully,
Gary
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Neither Gare, or myself are discriminating against anyone, I understand your frustration and as the author appears to be German I'm sure he will too. And yes I got the same auto response ;)
I sent Yanone a link to this thread and invited him to join our discussion. We may have to wait a few weeks but that is better than potentially violating someone's copyright. :)
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Not to be understood wrongly:
I appreciate your help as well as Mr. Gerners Yanone art of work very much. However to much of talking about this system is not helpful as well. It is making us believe that the world is not ours but from each of us a piece. Do you always drive intentionally by law? You don't. No one does. We all are people. Therefore it is not respect always which saves our lives, but moreover our concentration and willingness to understand new situations. So mentioning the law more than one time is rather an excuse to me ;)
No offence please.
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
urednik, if you post your email adress here maybe somebody can show you at least how to achieve this yourself using some free or cheap software
edit : however anal much of the above sounds (and i both sympathise with your argument and and indeed agree) i reluctantly agree that those rules apply and must be observed because
1. this is a private forum belonging to xara/magiks
2. we have to obey the rules or get banned which isn't much fun
i hope yanone contacts you soon
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Hi all.
I really appreciate that everyone here is being extra cautious and respectful of font creators rights and copyright in general. It is the policy of TalkGraphics to require the permission of the copyright holder before altering or posting fonts, when the font is released without any specific instruction from the author about under what kind of copyright permission the font is being released under or if there are restrictions that prohibit modifying or creating derivative works.
In this specific case YanoneKaffeesatz-Bold.ttf, YanoneKaffeesatz-Bold.ttf, YanoneKaffeesatz-Bold.ttf, YanoneKaffeesatz-Bold.ttf are available , as Angleize pointed out, from Google Web at http://www.google.com/webfonts/speci...one+Kaffeesatz where you can see the license information and download the font.
If you download the font from there, it comes with the OFL licence in the zip file, which by the way is the same license we used to release RoundHead TG and The Celebrated Burgeon Ornaments TG. I've posted it below for you to see.
From reading the license, it is clearly permissible to modify and add to the YanoneKaffeesatz font. It is also OK to use it anyway you want as long as the modified version is released and distributed under the same SIL Open Font License under a new name (so it is not confused with the original work) and the five listed conditions are met.
So if Frank (or anyone else who wants to help out the OP) would like to post a modified version of the font (adding a glyph counts as modifying) using a new name (see condition 3) and clearly release it as a SIL OFL font that would be OK to post here.
Since the widely used font was missing a useful standard character, it would be nice if all four fonts were "fixed" and we could release it as our first Font Aid fixed font as long as we are careful with the font name and how we acknowledge the original font creator.
Cheers,
Barbara
---------------------------
Copyright (c) 2010, Jan Gerner (post@yanone.de)
This Font Software is licensed under the SIL Open Font License, Version 1.1.
This license is copied below, and is also available with a FAQ at:
http://scripts.sil.org/OFL
-----------------------------------------------------------
SIL OPEN FONT LICENSE Version 1.1 - 26 February 2007
-----------------------------------------------------------
PREAMBLE
The goals of the Open Font License (OFL) are to stimulate worldwide
development of collaborative font projects, to support the font creation
efforts of academic and linguistic communities, and to provide a free and
open framework in which fonts may be shared and improved in partnership
with others.
The OFL allows the licensed fonts to be used, studied, modified and
redistributed freely as long as they are not sold by themselves. The
fonts, including any derivative works, can be bundled, embedded,
redistributed and/or sold with any software provided that any reserved
names are not used by derivative works. The fonts and derivatives,
however, cannot be released under any other type of license. The
requirement for fonts to remain under this license does not apply
to any document created using the fonts or their derivatives.
DEFINITIONS
"Font Software" refers to the set of files released by the Copyright
Holder(s) under this license and clearly marked as such. This may
include source files, build scripts and documentation.
"Reserved Font Name" refers to any names specified as such after the
copyright statement(s).
"Original Version" refers to the collection of Font Software components as
distributed by the Copyright Holder(s).
"Modified Version" refers to any derivative made by adding to, deleting,
or substituting -- in part or in whole -- any of the components of the
Original Version, by changing formats or by porting the Font Software to a
new environment.
"Author" refers to any designer, engineer, programmer, technical
writer or other person who contributed to the Font Software.
PERMISSION & CONDITIONS
Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining
a copy of the Font Software, to use, study, copy, merge, embed, modify,
redistribute, and sell modified and unmodified copies of the Font
Software, subject to the following conditions:
1) Neither the Font Software nor any of its individual components,
in Original or Modified Versions, may be sold by itself.
2) Original or Modified Versions of the Font Software may be bundled,
redistributed and/or sold with any software, provided that each copy
contains the above copyright notice and this license. These can be
included either as stand-alone text files, human-readable headers or
in the appropriate machine-readable metadata fields within text or
binary files as long as those fields can be easily viewed by the user.
3) No Modified Version of the Font Software may use the Reserved Font
Name(s) unless explicit written permission is granted by the corresponding
Copyright Holder. This restriction only applies to the primary font name as
presented to the users.
4) The name(s) of the Copyright Holder(s) or the Author(s) of the Font
Software shall not be used to promote, endorse or advertise any
Modified Version, except to acknowledge the contribution(s) of the
Copyright Holder(s) and the Author(s) or with their explicit written
permission.
5) The Font Software, modified or unmodified, in part or in whole,
must be distributed entirely under this license, and must not be
distributed under any other license. The requirement for fonts to
remain under this license does not apply to any document created
using the Font Software.
TERMINATION
This license becomes null and void if any of the above conditions are
not met.
DISCLAIMER
THE FONT SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND,
EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTIES OF
MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT
OF COPYRIGHT, PATENT, TRADEMARK, OR OTHER RIGHT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE
COPYRIGHT HOLDER BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY,
INCLUDING ANY GENERAL, SPECIAL, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, OR CONSEQUENTIAL
DAMAGES, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING
FROM, OUT OF THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE FONT SOFTWARE OR FROM
OTHER DEALINGS IN THE FONT SOFTWARE.
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Got a question, Barbara--and thanks for piping in.
3) No Modified Version of the Font Software may use the Reserved Font
Name(s) unless explicit written permission is granted by the corresponding
Copyright Holder. This restriction only applies to the primary font name as
presented to the users.
Does this then mean if the font is modified, it cannot use the original name as the menu name without explicit permission from Yanone should it be redistributed?
Mike "Not a lawyer" W
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
The answer is yes.
It can, and probably should be called something other than, "Frank's version of YanoneKaffeesatz". The Step 3 you quoted, Mike, is clear on this point.
Why not call it "TalkGraphics YT" so both the work Frank and others did on the font is reflected, while retaining a sense of the creator?
Whatever is fine, certainly fine by me. We just can't release this as Frank's work, or mine, or anyone else's as "Yanone Kaffeesatz".
Call it "Your Own Coffee Sense Bold".
Whatev' :)
Gary
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Thanks, Gary.
This was the first time I have ever read the license ... Mike
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
I wish legal stuff was written by someone other than lawyers, Mike!
So the Common Man could understand it and abide by it?
How about if legal contracts were written by software engineers when they're not writing documentation?
Okay, strike that thought...
-g
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Thanks Barbara, Mike, and Gary
I kept a copy of Gary's font lab file if it is needed and I believe that Gary kept a copy of Frank's ttf file
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
i'll wait for the op to come back before doing the other variants
i suspect he's pretty disappointed, especially since, had we read the licence (i didn't) we could have let him have it there and then
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Let us remember that the internal data, the attribution and font name and all that good stuff, needs to be changed. Not just the file name, but also the name the user sees. I could do this, if I'm provided with the font with its additions.
When someone asks for a favor, Frank, it's unrealistic for the one asking to set conditions. Such as professionalism, and pre-knowledge of the law, in this case.
The net result is: we'll get better here on this thread in the future.
-g
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Hey fine Gare! So lets call the set KUFE, pack it and send it to me :)
(kufe is Slovene dialect for Coffee (Kaffe)).
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Love to make it that simple, urednik.
FIRST: I need legal language to put in the typeface. Gang, we did this before with tg RoundHead. Will someone please volunteer to write the stuff so I can put it in the font's data page?
THEN: This is going to be marked as a TalkGraphics cooperative effort, so I want to pass it around before it goes public. someone has a problem with the typeface, inlcuding you, urednik, you let me know and then we go live with it. Urednik, you understand that tghis is not "law" stuff, but "pride"? We want the world to notice that we did a good job for you.
Angelize, anything else?
Frank, I take it I can add the data to your font and we're cool?
Urednik: time frame? If I can get the legal language and okays in the next 8 hours, you can probably have the font, along with other people, tomorrow. Frank has done the hard work. All that is left is some coding.
TIA,
Gary
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Understood, agreed. No need to hurry. If you still feel rather to wait for the author I am ok with that as well. Although in the mean time my website is in designing hell :P
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Me? I would prefer to hit it sooner than later, just to be able to schedule other things.
There is no need, politically or legally, to wait to add the characters to a different font name, and then feel free to use it.
We are covered in both those areas. The original author's license grants us permission, item #3 in the SIL OPEN FONT LICENSE.
-g
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gare
Frank, I take it I can add the data to your font and we're cool?
of course, no worries
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
I believe that we need to add to the change log that should accompany the OFL which documents the changes that the TG fonts and Typography group has made to the font, and we need to have a copy of the OFL with our font names. Before the font(s) go live the whole download package will need to be approved by Barbara.
So If you guys can put together the Change log, and when the font files are ready, I'll check and see about updating the OFL I'll pack them into a zip file with the documentation, and send it to Barbara. Once I get approval I'll post a new thread in the Free & fixed fonts Gallery with the download link.
One other thing I believe that any of you who have worked on the fonts may need to post releases in this thread like we did for the other fonts.
Gary, if Barbara isn't too busy could you ask her to have a look at this thread and confirm if we need the releases?
Also does anyone have any objection if I move this thread up into the font aid forum?
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Re: Can I add/edit one character in the Font yanone kaffesatz?
I just got a reply from Yanone and he has given his blessing to our project as well :) Yanone has also offered this link to the latest version http://yanone.de/typedesign/kaffeesatz/ which is also published under the SIL OFL.
Looks like there is work to be done :D