-
Naming exported images
Is there a way to control the naming of the bitmaps when exported.
Now it is a sequence of numbers (1.png, 2.png, ....) and I have noticed that when you add a new element to a page (and put it backward) the sequence changes and some (or most) of elements get a new number.
Now, when a visitor revisits your website after a change, the filenames of the bitmaps may not correspond with the content of his browsercache and sometimes you get very strange effects !!
any solution ?
Jopi
-
Re: Naming exported images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jopi
Is there a way to control the naming of the bitmaps when exported.
No.
-
Re: Naming exported images
I have not studied this problem myself, but it sounds like a bummer. I will be revising my site very frequently and the Browser Cache may be a problem.
1 - Have you tested to verify this behavior? Browsers may be able to detect file size or update differences when your local computer filesystem makes mistakes on thumbnails in folders.
2 - Perhaps there is a way to force a fresh load from a browser using Javascript or something? Some browsers may reject this, but there is a chance this type of script exists.
Thanks for the interesting dilemma. I will have to pay attention to this when updating my own site.
Mike
-
Re: Naming exported images
@covoxer
As I understand it from what I have read, the following is a partial solution.
Code:
<meta http-equiv="PRAGMA" content="NO-CACHE" />
<meta http-equiv="CACHE-CONTROL" content="NO-STORE, NO-CACHE, MUST-REVALIDATE, POST-CHECK=0, PRE-CHECK=0" />
<meta http-equiv="EXPIRES" content="01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 GMT" />
<meta http-equiv="Last-Modified" content="01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 GMT" />
<meta http-equiv="If-Modified-Since" content="01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 GMT" />
Unortunately I have little knowledge of controling the cache so I was wondering you could shed any light on the value of using these tags?
Drwyd
-
Re: Naming exported images
These tell browser to refresh cache everytime you visit a site.
But, they don't force it to do this, so the browser may ignore it depending on the browser version and settings. There is no known way to 100% reliably force any browser to refresh it's cache using anything in the page html code.
Enother thing is that we actually don't want to reload all the graphics everytime, this is similar to disabling cache which is bad. We only want browser to check for changed files and update them in it's cache. And this is a default setting of all browsers. Unless you change it, it works as expected, all updated images are refreshed if needed.
But, as in many other cases, you can not forbid user to mess with browser settings and as a result get wrong page rendering. It's a client side problem.
-
Re: Naming exported images
you have confirmed my suspicions john, the cache is probably best left well alone :)
I have experienced the same problems as Jopi when updating my sites and I am worried that it may sometimes make a less than perfect impression on returning visitors when the site is updated frequently. Are there any plans to address this in a future update?
drwyd
-
Re: Naming exported images
Unfortunately I don't see a way to reliably address this issue. Explicit image file naming can not help if you update already existing images.
-
Re: Naming exported images
Explicit file naming would already solve a large part of the problems.
Would a condition such as 'fixed element' in the 'webproperties' be a solution ?
When setting up a website you normally now in advance which elements you want to be permanent. If you could tag them this would already help.
-
Re: Naming exported images
Isn't there a way to have XWD remember the name with which it exported an element.
In this way adding one single element to a page would not mess it up completely.
-
Re: Naming exported images
developers
Quote:
Is there a way to control the naming of the bitmaps when exported
MANY people REALY NEED THIS.
This is REALY PROBLEM!!!
Quote:
Unfortunately I don't see a way to reliably address this issue. Explicit image file naming can not help if you update already existing images.
Explicit file naming would already solve a large part of the problems.
I dont anderstand - add the tag(file_name) for all grafics elements in xara is a big problem??!!
Many web designers software have this option!
-
Re: Naming exported images
Any further reactions ons this item.
It is really a problem and makes regular updates of a site nearly impossible.
People revisiting a site which has been updated are often confronted with a totally unreadable site (because one element has been added or changed) and will turn away from the site.
Isn't it possible to give control over naming of the image files.
And leave the option open whether you want webdesigner to control naming or to take control yourself.
Any reaction ?
Webdesigner is a beautifull tool but this problem makes it nearly unusable !!
-
Re: Naming exported images
I'm not sure why this is a problem, so perhaps someone can explain.....
If you change a graphic and the cache doesn't update, then the "viewer" sees the same site as before. If it does update, then the "viewer" sees the new site. The cache doesn't partially update.
This is ONLY a problem if you try and shortcut the update by just uploading one file. Xara recommend using the built in FTP and uploading the whole site.
I have heard many moans about time, but rarely is a site so time sensitive that you can't just "click" and leave it to upload fully. You don't need to spend time doing it, just leave it alone and have a coffee .........
-
Re: Naming exported images
Hi Ss-kalm,
I tend to agree with this approach. If you follow the XWD rules then everything should work fine.
Whenever I visit a site after a long hiatus then I do a cache refresh. I press CTL- F5 and all will be normal.
If this was a real problem, then of course XWD wouldn't be worth the cost but I personally don't see this as a problem. The jpg and png files should be small when uploading, even a relatively large site shouldn't take very long to upload.
Ed......:-)
-
Re: Naming exported images
There is a problem if you like to break up your website into different .web files. The same graphic files get created 1.jpg, 2.jpg, 3.jpg ...
Xara should randomly generate the first 3 letters for every .web file it creates. So it would generate something like this pda001.jpg, pda002.jpg, pda003.jpg ... for one .web file and something like this for another web file htr001.jpg, htr002.jpg, htr003.jpg ...
Also when a new graphic is added and the website is revised it should start at where it left off like htr004.jpg
I also agree it would be nice to be able to use imported file names but I don't know if that will be possible.
Covoxer?
-
Re: Naming exported images
Right Aridzone, Thanks, I hadn't thought about multiple .web files.
-
Re: Naming exported images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aridzone
There is a problem if you like to break up your website into different .web files. The same graphic files get created 1.jpg, 2.jpg, 3.jpg ...
Xara should randomly generate the first 3 letters for every .web file it creates. So it would generate something like this pda001.jpg, pda002.jpg, pda003.jpg ... for one .web file and something like this for another web file htr001.jpg, htr002.jpg, htr003.jpg ...
Also when a new graphic is added and the website is revised it should start at where it left off like htr004.jpg
I also agree it would be nice to be able to use imported file names but I don't know if that will be possible.
Covoxer?
Very good point....hmmmm.....could be interesting down the road couldn't it?
Ed......:-)
-
Re: Naming exported images
The problem is as follows :
e.g.: you make a site with 4 bitmaps (A, B, C and D)
when exporting XWB names them 1.png (A), 2.png (B), 3.png(C) and 4. png (D)
first visit on website - the 4 png files are stored in cache
you add a bitmap to your website and move it backward (E)
when exporting this changed website XWB renames the files differently (apparently xwb names the bitmaps in the sequence they appear in the website)
files are now 1.png (A), 2.png (E),3.png(B),4. png (C) adn 5.png (D).
when earlier visitor revisits same website now.
the images stored in cache now appear in different positions and different sizes (since the initial png files have a different content) and this makes part of the website unreadable.
this can only be undone by clearing the cache and refreshing the website.
difiicult to put on your website "if site is unreadable please refresh cache" - this would be highly unprofessional.
this is realy an important issue and makes xwb nearly unusable.
we have decided to go back to dreamweaver because of this.
-
Re: Naming exported images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jopi
you add a bitmap to your website and move it backward (E)
Hi Jopi (with a p).....
I'm sorry, I don't understand this statement. How do you 'move it backward'?
Thanks,
Ed......:-)
-
Re: Naming exported images
Jopi,
How??????? If the cache has not being refreshed, surely the visitor will see all the original content, not new content with original images. You can't half refresh the content.
-
Re: Naming exported images
If only a partial site re publish is carried out, you will see the misplaced elements which no longer correspond with the html source.
Always perform a full re publish and then refresh.
As Keith says, after a full republish refreshing will load the newest content. (I've personally done this enough times to know that it works)
-
Re: Naming exported images
This problem has another aspect to it. My own site gets a lot of traffic from Google Image Search and if the file names are changing that's BAD news on the SEO side of the equation. I don't see why there can't be a way to name images in your content what you want .... I've always named images in a keyword-sensitive fashion and that has worked well for me.
I saw the naming restriction right away so to work around that I ALWAYS use the image description tag in the web properties CP ... I hope that will offset changing image names whenever I update!
This is a big issue on the SEO side & I sure hope the developers are pulling out all stops to write a patch!:eek:
-
Re: Naming exported images
a) to karateed : moving an image or item backward (menu item arrange - move backward)
b) to sledger : i also always do a complete republish and this doesn't help
the problem is at the side of the visitor - if the browser cache of his browser isn't refreshed then the new content will not be shown correctly
do the test yourself :
- make a small one page website
put some images in it
publish the website
visit the website
- add 2 new images and move them backward some steps
republish the changed website
revisit the website
you will notice what the problem is
when revisiting a republished website the html of this website will point to the wrong image files.
-
Re: Naming exported images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ss-kalm
Jopi,
How??????? If the cache has not being refreshed, surely the visitor will see all the original content, not new content with original images. You can't half refresh the content.
Only the images are cached.
The new html is read by the browser but the images it points to have changed.
So you are then viewing new html with old content (other image, other size, ....)
result : website unreadable.
You should really try this out !
We have had this problem with 2 websites we designed for customers now and we had to redesign their websites in dreamweaver.
You can also not expect from visitors that they always do a cache refresh.
-
Re: Naming exported images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jopi
b) to sledger : i also always do a complete republish and this doesn't help
I believe you.
But it actually does work for me (unless the FTP'ing aborts for some reason and I get a partial upload.)
Xara may address this better in future, but for the moment it's really not a great deal of additional work to use the 'actual image' you want as it's own placeholder and use the 'Replace with Graphic File' in Web Properties to assign the same image.
You don't even have to have the files in a special place as XWD will copy them 'name intact' to the output folder on export. Try it :)
-
Re: Naming exported images
If this is causing problems then you can create a <head> placeholder and paste in the following code:
Code:
<script language="JavaScript" type="text/javascript">
// Published at: scripts.tropicalpcsolutions.com
var reloaded = false;
var loc=""+document.location;
loc = loc.indexOf("?reloaded=")!=-1?loc.substring(loc.indexOf("?reloaded=")+10,loc.length):"";
loc = loc.indexOf("&")!=-1?loc.substring(0,loc.indexOf("&")):loc;
reloaded = loc!=""?(loc=="true"):reloaded;
function reloadOnceOnly() {
if (!reloaded)
window.location.replace(window.location+"?reloaded=true");
}
reloadOnceOnly(); //You can call this via the body tag if desired
</script>
I found this script HERE It forces the page to refresh once only.
-
Re: Naming exported images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sledger
I believe you.
Xara may address this better in future, but for the moment it's really not a great deal of additional work to use the 'actual image' you want as it's own placeholder and use the 'Replace with Graphic File' in Web Properties to assign the same image.
You don't even have to have the files in a special place as XWD will copy them 'name intact' to the output folder on export. Try it :)
Sledger,
Thanks for the tip. It works, but it nearly doubles the size of the website.
Each image is placed twice in the "index_html"-directory : once with the original name and once the 'numbered' file generated by XWD.
This is really a pitty : when looking at the html file which is generated by XWD only the orignal named file is used and not the file generated by XWD.
Moreover this does not work for texts (grouped) which are exported as an image.
I also notice that when both jpg en png are used in the website, numbering starts from 0 for each type. Result : two files might have the name 0 or 1, ....
So, its only a partial solution.
Any other suggestions.
-
Re: Naming exported images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Egg Bramhill
If this is causing problems then you can create a <head> placeholder and paste in the following code:
Code:
<script language="JavaScript" type="text/javascript">
// Published at: scripts.tropicalpcsolutions.com
var reloaded = false;
var loc=""+document.location;
loc = loc.indexOf("?reloaded=")!=-1?loc.substring(loc.indexOf("?reloaded=")+10,loc.length):"";
loc = loc.indexOf("&")!=-1?loc.substring(0,loc.indexOf("&")):loc;
reloaded = loc!=""?(loc=="true"):reloaded;
function reloadOnceOnly() {
if (!reloaded)
window.location.replace(window.location+"?reloaded=true");
}
reloadOnceOnly(); //You can call this via the body tag if desired
</script>
I found this script
HERE It forces the page to refresh once only.
Hi Egg,
So does this need to be put in every page on the site to work properly?
I like the idea of preempting the problem if it's possible.
Thanks,
Ed......:-)
-
Re: Naming exported images
Ed, I honestly don't know but I wouldn't have thought so. Only way is to try it in your index.htm only at first and see how it goes.
Jopi, I believe Steve was suggesting that you used placeholders in place of the images. So you had a folder "images" and you called for these images via placeholder text "replace with Graphic File" + "images/photo_2_load.jpg". The place holder only needs to be the same size as the image. There's no photos loaded in the index_htm_files apart from the text to image part of the page but you could easily place these into your image folders also.
I still can't see the problem though. A refreshed page loads both the source code and the renamed images.
-
Re: Naming exported images - HUGE problem (imho)
This is something of a deal-breaker.
I've always handcoded sites in the past but thought I'd use Xtreme 5's web design facility for ease of use. I like the ease and I like the good code behind the scenes BUT and I mean BUT there is a major problem with the wrong image sometimes being returned.
For example: a simple 3 page site with the same banner (made up of transparencies and the like) was working great until suddenly, for no apparent reason, page 2's banner kept returning a weird distorted image as the central element of the banner. An interesting effect but not when you need consistency across pages.
I eventually found by checking the properties of the published pages that it was using the enigmatic '2.jpg' instead of the slightly zen '0.jpg'. I changed the html file to reference '0.jpg' and all is resolved...... not good to have to do a work around.
I need the ability to explicitly name images or this will become too burdensome across a multi-page site with thousands of images. It's not supposed to be 'pot luck', well not unless you design it to be...
1/. Can the developers please issue a patch to address this problem one way or another.
2/. Can Xtreme please have Webstyle's ease of use in configuring drop down menus. If Xtreme is to have a 'web design made easy' function it needs to be across the board and many designs have not carried been over.
Thanks.
Another Steve
-
Re: Naming exported images
There is one other problem with the way Xara names their files whether it be numbered or any other format. I do digital scrapbooking and plan on doing a membership site where people will download the graphics off the pages individually. The images need to be named for what they are: OrangeAlpha-A.jpg for instance and not 1. Each time a new alphabet is added, the numbering changes and downloading would be a nightmare.
I have had my customer, whom I've changed his site and will make regular site changes, has come to me and told me my pages are a mess. Now what about his customers? I won't be hearing from each and every one of them and neither will he about the problem. They'll just go to another site offering similar products.
Please, the issue has been raised long enough. Is anyone on Xara's end even looking at the problem?
-
Re: Naming exported images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ladybug
I do digital scrapbooking and plan on doing a membership site where people will download the graphics off the pages individually. The images need to be named for what they are: OrangeAlpha-A.jpg for instance and not 1.
Use image placeholders for these special images.
-
Re: Naming exported images
Hey, brilliant idea. Who'da thunk? Thanks
-
Re: Naming exported images
Covoxer, I have another question for you. How would I do it if I wanted to do thumbnails but I want it to link to a download?
-
Re: Naming exported images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ladybug
Covoxer, I have another question for you. How would I do it if I wanted to do thumbnails but I want it to link to a download?
Well, links to images like JPG or PNG are opened directly by browsers. To avoid it you may use different file type. For example, you can archive the original images with zip or rar or any other archiver. Archives are downloaded automatically by all browsers.
-
Re: Naming exported images
Ok, thanks. What I did was link to the .zip location.
-
Re: Naming exported images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ladybug
Hey, brilliant idea. Who'da thunk? Thanks
It been mentioned once before earlier in this thread :rolleyes:
http://www.talkgraphics.com/showpost...4&postcount=24
-
Re: Naming exported images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ladybug
Please, the issue has been raised long enough. Is anyone on Xara's end even looking at the problem?
I agree....this whole issue is a MAJOR problem which really needs to be addresses ASAP! I was sooo excited when I discovered this program as I thought it was EXACTLY what I need BUT with this issue, it is really sadly lacking, so much so that I am questioning wether to continue using it. Come on Xara's tech team....when are you going to address this problem?? Surely it is obvious that this is an issue that is not going away and is really going to be a HUGE dampener on an otherwise fabulous program!
How about some comments in the very least??
-
Re: Naming exported images
Quote:
Originally Posted by
portwine
How about some comments in the very least??
Covoxer (Xara's html export developer) has commented 5 times in this thread alone.
There have also been a number of other threads discussing the naming of images and current workable methods - here's the first I found:
http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthread.php?t=40493
I think it's reasonable to assume that future updates or patches will always address important bugs, feature improvements and requests especially if they are also in-line with development road maps.
Clearly if retaining the imported bitmap's original name for export purposes is requested by an overwhelming majority I'm sure any reasonable developer would look closely.
While to date there have been a number of people who have shown a preference for this, it's not been been a huge ground-swell and evidently there have been many excellent websites produced with the current version of XWD and Xtreme 5 which are successful without needing to retain original image names.
I consider that making more use of the image ALT attribute would be most helpful to those who are new to web site design.
-
Re: Naming exported images
Quote:
Clearly if retaining the imported bitmap's original name for export purposes is requested by an overwhelming majority I'm sure any reasonable developer would look closely.
I officially want to put my vote in for this.
For people like me who like to break large websites into individual files this is a must have!
I made a suggestion about changing the naming of files but I guess the moderators didn't find it even WORTHY of posting in Dear Xara Web Designer:p
If anyone else doesn't want to go thru the extra task of using placeholders,
you should make your voice heard.
-
Re: Naming exported images
You can use the actual image as it's own placeholder and then browse it via 'replace with graphic file'.
You can use this across every page in a website and only need the one original named image.
This means that you can update an image at any time (and without editing your .web file) simply by uploading a new version of the .png or .jpg with the same name.
(*Currently there is a known bug whereby XWD/X5 will produce a placeholder image, but these can be safely deleted.)