Pen Tut for Jack

Jack, I know you asked not to, but this is how I best express my techniques! Here's a tut for you on the basics of making shapes, it really shouldn't be hard if you keep trying at it! This is something that I've done a lot so it's all habit, point being, if I've left a whole bunch of stuff out that you're still in the dark about, or need to know anything else, just ask!

Another great person to ask about shapes is Risto, his entire collection revolves around precise and accurate shapes. Not being him I wouldn't know if it's a technique or a set of mind, but either way that's one thing I've noticed about his works since the first I saw of him. Any xara cartoonist would work too.

Again, anything you'd like to know, just ask, I'll do my best to explain. I don't believe shapes are my forte, I'm more knowledgeable in shading, lighting, etc., but I believe the more you copy (Pictures, objects, etc.) the better you'll understand both shapes and shading

Hope this help

Steve Newport

Jack, I know you asked not to, but this is how I best express my techniques! Here's a tut for you on the basics of making shapes, it really shouldn't be hard if you keep trying at it! This is something that I've done a lot so it's all habit, point being, if I've left a whole bunch of stuff out that you're still in the dark about, or need to know anything else, just ask!

Another great person to ask about shapes is Risto, his entire collection revolves around precise and accurate shapes. Not being him I wouldn't know if it's a technique or a set of mind, but either way that's one thing I've noticed about his works since the first I saw of him. Any xara cartoonist would work too.

Again, anything you'd like to know, just ask, I'll do my best to explain. I don't believe shapes are my forte, I'm more knowledgeable in shading, lighting, etc., but I believe the more you copy (Pictures, objects, etc.) the better you'll understand both shapes and shading

Hope this help

Steve Newport

thanks a million. Your tut helps a whole lot. Sometimes, what's easy for one is so difficult for another, until someone shows you how it's done. I can see, it just takes a lot of practice, which is what I plan to give it.

I know you are a master of light, shadow and shading, it's what truly transforms your images into such believable works.

Thanks again for all your unselfish help. You've at least pointed me in the right direction. I've got to get to work now!

Jack

It's funny how one little bit of ignorance in your mind can take so much away from your drawings.
A little while back while working on a logo for a Vocal Jazz Ensemble 'The Drifters' I got one little tip from Volv about highlighting some edges in this pile of liquid and it made ALL the difference. I now have a much better understanding of liquid and other shiny stuff, a much better logo, and it was all because of one person.
In every piece of art YOU create, the radiantness of a thousand others beam throug

Steve Newport

Hi Steve,

Great tutorial.

One question that I have that has not worked for me in the past is adding a node onto the line. For some reason I am not getting this to work. Is there an area that needs to be zoomed into in order to see it better and then choose the 'shape editor tool' to add it??

Seems like it would be easy but I find what ended up working for me (working on the Mom's Angel project, which I am procrastinating at finishing because I haven't a clue how to create feathers) is that when I exported her from PhotoPaint, even though she was a transparent GIF there is still an invisible box around the entire object and for me to make alterations and clean up lines and what not I had to get that box from around her. So I ended up using the 'freehand tool' and would zoom into each area and re-define the line using the Wacom Tablet and stylus. There were a few areas that I wish I could have added a node to in order to get exactly the line around her but instead just made due. I tried the 'shape editor tool' to achieve this but it didn't work for me.

One other thing I wanted to bring up in using the 'Freehand tool' is sometimes in re-defining certain areas I would draw the line when I saw that I had the ~ and would release the line when a reconnector ~ would appear but then the entire image would disappear except for that one area that I re-defined. Very irratating and I'm not sure why that happens and how to work around it in the future. Any help here???

In summary: Loved the turorial [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Need help in understanding how to add a node [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]
Need help in creating a feather [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]
Need some help in understanding why sometimes my image will dissapear when re-defining a line using the "Freehand tool" and how to avoid this from happening in the future [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

WHEW!!!!

Thanks so much......

RAMWolff [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

I am very familiar with your "Drifter" piece. It's one of the works that I found that impressed me so much. From the day I joined I've been going back through old posts, and that's where I found the drifter piece. The realism you achieved is what is amazing to me. It is so photo realistic it's scary!

Anyway, thanks again. Sometimes one little tip is all that's needed to unlock a world of mysteries.

Jack

now you've made me think of another similar problem I have. When tracing a large image on the tablet I sometimes find I have to lift my hand in order to continue, which stops the line itself and I then have trouble re-connecting to continue the shape and get all as one object. Am I not doing something right, or should I try and break an object into smaller pieces and then join them in Arrange/add shapes?

I keep trying to read through the Webxealot's, and although they are very helpful, sometimes I just need another person to show me what I'm not figuring out on my own by reading.

Jack

I'll explain later, but here's a quick tut to show how these things work

I'll c-ya

Steve Newport

Steve's Drifter piece?? I wanna see (whiney voice [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] ) Can you 'link' us up??

Thanks Steve, that is a bit of a help. Take your time, have all the time in the world [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

RAMWolff [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Steve's Drifter piece is in the Xara Gallery on page 4. Posted Jan. 14, 2002 and titled "Drifters - Final (I think?)"

The (I think?) is part of the title, not an inference from me that I wasn't sure! Ha Ha!

Anyway, go check it out..... You will be impressed!

Jack

Below is a how to add a node, real easy! As for the rest of the questions, I may not be sure as to what you mean.

Jack, to continue a broken line, select the freehand tool and move it over one of the tips of the lines until the + sign appears then click and draw, that should be it. Now, you're using a tablet, so it may give you some problems but I wouldn't know not having one!

Ramwolf, when splicing a line you bring the freehand tool anywhere on the line except the ends and you get ~ click and draw over onto another spot on the same line until you get another ~ this will replace all the line matter in between the start and endpoint of the path you just drew with the new shape you just drew.

As I said, I don't know what could be happening with your problems, but maybe understanding these functions may help you come to a conclusion!
Hope this help [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Steve Newport

WOW Steve, don't know how I missed that one. Great piece you did there [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Thanks for the explanation on splicing. Yea, I know how to do all that, but the thing I was curious about is that if I have an object that I am doing that with, seems that there have been some times when I am doing the splicing with the freehand tool and when I get that little ~ I do the connect thing and then the whole image dissapears except for the line I just spliced. I can't explain it any better with out showing you an example but I really don't know how to show you that sort of an example.

The NODE tutoiral is very helpful I thank you for that very much [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

RAMWolff [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

I can't say it enough times Steve.

I am ok with adding nodes, but I do have one problem. Sometimes I can't get the little thingie's to come out so I can make adjustments. Is there a trick?

Sometimes I can barely see them hiding behind the node and when I try to get them out I screw up the position of the node itself, and the next thing you know, I've got nodes and lines and all sorts of things all over the place. Ha Ha

Sometimes I just stop, laugh at myself and start over.

I am having fun learning, and your help along with all the other generous people here makes it even more fun.

Ramwolff, I told you you'd like that one. Looks like you could almost reach out and flick the switch and start talking.....

Jack

Ramwolff,

I can post the .xar file of the feather I made in the recent thread "Not exactly a bird" but I suspect you don't want that kind of detail for an entire set of wings.

Maya's little feather tut might be better for that application, but let me know I'd be happy to post it.

Bob C.

I tried the methods Steve mentioned, and I think I might see the problem that some are having with the Freehand tool. Maybe the fresh eyes of a newbie can be helpful. (and maybe not, too)

Seems that when you are using the ~ function, if you have an unclosed line, that is not yet a connected filled shape (I hope that makes sense), when you connect two ~ points, you lose anything between those two points, in order to create your newly shaped line. If the line has been connected to form a shape, you still lose everything between the ~ points, but not the entire connected shape.

Hope that makes sense. See below.

Steve, is this correct?

http://eyesitewebdesign.com/lines.gif

Dale

I think I had your problem and finally figured this out a couple of days ago!

Jess

[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

YUP, the fresh eyes of a "newbie" had shown this 7 month user something that he couldn't figure out for himself. Thanks so much Jessica S and thanks for getting the spelling of my name right. Upper case: R A M W lower case: o l f f. Perfect!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Thanks to Dale and Bob C too!! I think that Maya just posted a feather tutorial but your .xar file might come in handy to learn from, Bob C. Much appreciated

RAMWolff [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

That's gotta be it!

I have had that happen, too, but had assumed that I had made a bonehead newbie mistake. It's great to see the problem demonstrated so clearly.

This calls for some experimenting.

Thanks for the great input! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Dale

Why, I’m afraid I can’t explain myself, sir, because I’m not myself, you know...
- Lewis Carroll

Hi RAMWolff,

My feather .xar file as requested. Hope it helps.

Bob C.

I tried this with a simple connected curve:

I made a simple curve, then connected it together with another.

I tried several ways of modifying the connected line using the ~'s, and noticed a tendency for Xara to preserve the area with the greater number of nodes (also called points or anchor points).

I added quite a few additional nodes with the Shape Editor tool.

It seemed that if I used the ~ to attempt to modify the connected line, the area with the most nodes took precedence, and was preserved.

If the number of nodes between the ~'s was the same, Xara preserved the largest segment.

My conclusion: to prevent losing the area you are trying to preserve, make sure it has more nodes than the area you are trying to modify.

Pretty smart, those Xara X programmers! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

In the following example, the smaller, bottom segment of the shape will be preserved, because it has 3 more nodes than the upper part.

http://www.eyesitewebdesign.com/nodes2.gif

Dale

You've helped many of us with your discovery!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] It makes complete sense.

---As The Crow Casts Its Shadow---
Maya

Dale — a clarification — when you have the same number of nodes Xara preserves the section that contains the start point not the largest section.

We had a discussion a while ago about cropping that you might find interesting. You can read it here.

Mickie

Thanks so much Mickie for the link to that discussion! It was very helpful to me!

---As The Crow Flies---
Maya

Maya, isn't it amazing how much information there is here! I just hope it never gets lost.

Mickie

Thanks for the info!

I read that thread, and will be doing more experimenting in the future.

At least there is always UNDO.

Dale

Why, I’m afraid I can’t explain myself, sir, because I’m not myself, you know...
- Lewis Carroll

for the feather.xar file. much appreciated [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Got my new Sound Blaster PCI 512 installed and am playing with it and singing into my new microphone, real scarry [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] Why is it scary, you ask?? Because it works really well and thank god I live alone [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

RAMWolff [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

I haven't used the freehand tool a lot and didn't realise about the 'splicing' option, thanks Steve I'll have a play with that.

Thanks everyone for the slicing info and node counts etc and also in the other thread (cheers for the link Mickie).

After having a play with Jess' tutorial, and seeing it also worked without adding the extra node, I thought it was also something to do with where the line was last broken and rejoined. Now I see from the other thread that there is a preference for the 'start point'. So the breaking/joining must have created a new start point. And also by the same token you can create a new start point in an already existing object like an imported bitmap.

Jack - Yes I had this problem too a while ago with curve handles being underneath the nodes, even if you up the magnification it can still be difficult to correct. There are a couple of ways to get them out from underneath the nodes. The first one is try hovering over the line until it changes into the white arrow and then drag the line out or in. If you drag it enough this will pull the curve handles out and you can move them about again.

Alternatively using the shape tool click on the troublesome node, if you look at the menu bar, 3 sets of xy co-ordinates appear. The left and right are the xy positions of the two curve handles and the middle one is the node itself. You can use these to move the curve handles out.

Regards

Su

I am sure you're right! And now I think I know why I keep getting that problem when I use combine shapes - several points are being introduced close together!

Seems I didn't look closely enough! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

I meant Dale's detective work. I didn't see the second page!

Jess