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Interweaving vines with 3D text
Thought about suggesting that also........you beat me to it by a lot.
Now back to the original topic. While I am not editing an image in the same sense that you did. I had an idea for something I used to do by hand (usually when I was flying to pass the time). I have just started here but I think you will see where I am headed. I created some text, and then drew a line that I wanted to pass through the text at different points. What I really want is a vine that weaves through the letters. I then created a leaf to apply along the vine. I used the clone tool like you did to make the line disappear behind the letters at different points using the same process we used in creating the mask in your tutorial.
Now I have a couple of things, one in particular, that I am struggling with. I want the vine to diminish in size as it moves from right to left. I will eventually create multiple leaves of different sizes and some color variations. I think I will also need to try to put some portions on different layers so I can intermix things a little better. I think you will all be able to see what I am trying to accomplish and Gary's tutorial inspired my to try this approach. Any suggestions of how to get to the next step will be greatly appreciated.
Again, I see this as just a starting point and that I could use your suggestions/help.
Attachment 94698
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Hi Dave, I would tackle this as a graphics related project rather than a photo editing one. And as such it might be better to discuss this in the Xara Graphics Forum instead. It is easier to remove the unwanted parts of the vine with either the eraser tool or by subtracting shapes. If you would like to start a new thread in the Xara graphics forum or if Gary could split off your post and my reply into a new thread there (I don't have pemissions here in the Xara Xone forum) I'll be happy to show you a technique for doing this :)
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Frances, you or Gary may move this to another forum if you like. I through together a quick little "tutorial" that kind of explains what I was doing and why I though it was appropriate here. I do not think using the eraser tool or subtracting will achieve the same results but I am sure open to another approach. Since I trying to take the vine and weave it through the text (some portions if front and some in back - well OK, the eraser might work if done carefully). Since I created to bitmap copies, this winds up to be the same process of using multiple copies of an image to (one used to modify another).
This one is not as precise or as complete as the one I posted before because I just wanted to explain my processes.
Attachment 94707
I sill would like to have a better method of creating the vine so it tapers between the start and end.
Again, if it is more appropriate somewhere else, no problem. I am wide open to anyone who has suggestions as to the best method of achieving my final goal of weaving a vine through text. This seemed like a small chore when I did it manually with a pencil but has turned into a challenge doing it electronically :):)
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
As you can see, Dave (and all) I promoted this discussion out of the Image Retouching thread. It didn't help the flow of this month's video discussion and at the same time, the technique is too interesting and the concept too intriguing to get buried in the monthly tutes.
you can use the clone tool to make the vine appear to go in front of and in back of the lettering; you can also use the Eraser tool if you're working with XDP, and you can also clipview the vines, as I've done in the attached file.
Dave, to answer your question about dimensionalizing the vine, use a pressure profile (on the Line Gallery). The other thing you can do to make it look more dimensional is to shade it. I blended a 2px wide line with a 16 px one behind it, using different shades of olive.
You don't need to work between different layers, Dave, unless you want to. You create a leaf and then press Ctrl+Shift+B a number of times to send a copy to the back of the stack of shapes on the current layer.
Feel free to check out and improve upon my begging of the attached file.
Oh, and begin with an inspired font! Ariel doesn't cut it artistically. I used "Floral Caps" Use the lowercase characters if you want to extrude the letters-uppercase are far too ornamental and complex! <click here>.
Attachment 94711
My Best,
gary
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
OK - Now that is what I am talking about.........I go to check out that pressure profile.
I had put my leaves at different levels the same way you did. They were all drawn on the top layer then I just moved them backward when I wanted them to be behind something else.
Yep, that is a neat font. I just used the arial before because I was just trying to launch the idea.
As for the vine, I had the glowing tube in your book in the back of my mind but did not take the time to go that route yet because I was somewhat fixated on the "shrinking" part. I need to go off and play with the pressure profile for a little while and understand how to apply it.
Might take me a day or tool (some other commitments) but I am going to try again. I am not 100% happy about the way the 3D tool angles the letters moving from the left to right. I might consider doing each letter independently with the same settings but I will have to play with that as well.
I will also mess around with the eraser tool a little as well and see how I like that method as compared to the clone method.
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Dave—
What I did with my text was convert it to editable shapes, ungroup the shapes, and then with all four selected, I applied the Extrude tool effect. And with all four still selected, I "group changed" the rotation and the lighting.
You can do that.
:)
-g
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Yes, I thought of that after I posted the reply. I am having a little problem getting the blend to work like you did. I am sure doing something wrong but will keep playing until I understand it.
BTW: The profiles I see in the line gallery produce some long tails and apply them to both ends. Are there some other lines profiles I should download? And, I downloaded the font. I really like it.
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Hi Dave and Gary I haven't been ignoring this discussion I've just been busy today. I use what I call the sandwich method to do this. I put together a rough mini tutorial to show you how I use the eraser tool (this could also be done by intersect or even an opacity mask)
This is quite roughly done and the vine needs shading but I think you should get the idea of how I sandwich the letters in between two copies of the vine and erase away the parts I don't need. I use a graphics tablet and set the eraser to use the pressure sensitivity.
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Thanks Frances - Do you really need the underneath vine?
I was thinking about putting the leaves there independently but then I guess our method allows me to visualize the entire vine all at once.
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Argh! Frances, please uninstall Ariel from your system! :)
Go to Font Squirrel and get Nick Curtis’ “Wooden Nickel” (a homage to Bernard Condensed it looks like). I feel if we’re in this to educate, we use artistic fonts, eh? :)
Attachment 94715
Dave, to make a blend between two open paths as I did, you first create a wide path, such as 16 pixels in width. Zoom way in and then Ctrl+K the original. Then apply a 2 pixel width to the copy and give it a color that contrasts with the original…so you can see it, a secondary reason. Then with the Blend tool and both paths selected, you drag from the broad one to the slender one. It takes patience. But once you have the blend, you can increase the blend steps and set profile distribution using the Infobar options.
Also, when you want to choose one or the other control object in the blend, with the Selector tool, Ctrl+click the broader path. If you want the slender one but it’s hard to manually select, you press Tab to cycle to the other control path.
And I am actively soliciting tips and tricks for just about any month of the Xara Xone. so if ya got longer stuff than these invaluable nuggets, or even ones you haven't posted yet, talk to me.
-g
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Sorry about the Arial font (you really hate that font don't you) I told you that it was a quick rough example :)
Here is a better example I changed the font It's now one called Vivian and put a bit more time in on the vine and the eraser work. The bottom layer of the sandwich makes it easier to get nice clean edges on the extrusions where the vine passes behind. It was only a few areas where the vine passes through a hole in an extrusion that I had to zoom in and use a small nib.
To shade the vine and (parts of the leaves) I cloned the vine and gave the clone a lighter shade of green for a highlight and feathered it. I used the profile sliders for the feathering tool to adjust the feathered edge and then I nudged it up and to the left and then I cloned the clone and gave it a pale green for the highlights and further feathered profiled and nudged it and then I selected all three vine layers and applied a clipview. I Used the same process on the leaves.
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Quote:
Originally Posted by
angelize
Sorry about the Arial font (you really hate that font don't you).
No:
• A font is an inanimate object, not worthy of hating.
• "Hate" largely is too strong an emotion to feel on an online forum.
• Sans serif, Gothic typefaces have an appropriate use. Sadly, one of them is not illustrative. They're terrific for making warning signs, and listing ingredients on packaging, and the New York City Sanitation Department used Helvetica (the inspiration for Arial) to label garbage trucks in the 1970s, as though you need a label to identify a garbage truck. Usually, the smell is a tip-off.
Comparatively speaking, Arial reads much better than Helvetica when used as a Web font. It was more or less designed as an optimized screen font back in 1982, and took 10 people to design it! In 2005, Robin Nicholas (the lead artist on the font) said "It was designed as a generic sans serif; almost a bland sans serif." Based on Monotype's "Grotesque" family, I don't know offhand a designer who swoons over Arial for its aesthetics.
You want the real deal for a totally utilitarian font? You go to the Berthold Foundry ad use Akzidenz-Grotesk. This typeface was the inspiration for all san serif Gothic fonts to follow, circa 1890s.
This belongs on the fonts and Typography thread, doesn't it?
:)
-g
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
OK - I have used the techniques that both of you (Frances and Gary) suggested to "give it a go." Look forward to your comments.
Once again, it has been a learning experience.
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
@Dave—
You're a fast learner, sport!
Now, the main difference between the blend trick I showed and what you did, is that your lines are perfectly centered between one another.
If you offset one or the other, you can achieve a nice lighting effect, (although with both lines in exactly the same place, you have a good beginning of a "Neon Effect").
Attachment 94743
I put the steps in the attached file.
"Nuance" is Everything in Good Art.
:)
My Best,
Gary
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Thanks Gare - I thought I had done that because I did see that when I was trying different things. I also see a couple of other mistakes that I am going to try to correct and I will repost the updated image.
I cannot tell you how much fun I am having here thanks to people like you. I do feel I am leaning. I am beginning to see that the Xara tool is more powerful for drawing than I was giving it credit for. This community is wonderful for sharing.
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
OK - I made a correction (removed a couple of leaves that I missed the first time). Still have one small area of the vine over top of the D that needs to be corrected but was not able to fix that. I have to blow it up before you really notice the flaw. I am thinking about trying to use the clone tool to fix that.
Attachment 94745
Here is a 2nd enlarged copy that points out what I thought I saw. I had attempted to do what you are saying. I tried to edit the vine but had converted it a bitmap copy and could not edit it. I fully understand what you are saying and had attempted to do that.
Attachment 94746
BTW: I did a screen capture and then tried to use clip tool and could not get it to cut out part of my screen capture. I had the image up, used the clip tool to highlight what I wanted to clip but could never get it to clip. Do not understand what I was doing wrong.
@Gare, @Frances - I cannot thank you enough for your guidance in this endeavor. I hope others might find this interesting enough to build on it and do some other stuff along this line.
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Nice job Dave. This has been a most interesting thread. =D>
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Yes! I too have enjoyed this thread! :)
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
@wizard509, @BeanPole: Glad you have enjoyed. It has sure taught me a lot even though every time I look at the image I see something else that needs to be corrected. Oh well, the learning process is the most valuable part for me at this sime.
@Gary (or should I use Gare): I messed with the Clip tool some more and got it to work correctly. Not sure what I was doing wrong before but think I have it under control now :o
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Hi Dave—
Gare or Gary is fine.
If you're the IRS, my name is Mr. Howard Feldstein and I live in Miami.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Clipview has only a few rules but the nice thing about this feature is that it's non-destructive.
You can clip as many shapes as you like. The shape at the bottom of the stack on a layer is the "peephole" through which you see the clipped shapes.
To execute a clip, you press Q while all the candidates are selected.
To unClip a group, you press Alt+Q.
Now, if you combine or Convert to Editable Shapes, then the clipview process is destructive and everything outside the bottom Clipping shape is deleted. Except when you clip a photo. Photographs (bitmaps, images) stored in a document are never altered. To restore a messed-up image, all you do is drag a copy into the document from the Bitmap Gallery.
I trust you're beginning to forget about ArtRage?
<Gary gets serious for a moment>
Oddly, digital painting, at least to me, is a lot more daunting than "drawing". Xara lets you undo and move lines, something a lot more difficult in Painter, ArtRage or other paint programs. Xara and other vector drawing programs have very clear rules: all areas are made of strokes and fills. And all shapes you create can be moved around and scaled, also something darned hard to do when you paint in a paint program.
Look at the Outsider this month to see how talented individuals stretch the bounds of what a drawing program is thought of as capable of doing.
To me, digital drawing is a process that is a lot more forgiving than painting. I admire experienced painters' work; it's just some place I can go, not creatively.
</seriousness>
-g
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
I was trying to use the Clip tool in the Photo flyout toolbar. That was the one I did not get to work correctly the first time.
I am not going to give up on ArtRage but I am seeing whole new avenues with the XP&GD that seems to be a better match for my talents (?). I like the painting possibilities but as I said, I am seeing the tool in a different light.
I did recommend your book to someone earlier today (if they can find it). This is the most sharing community I have ever seen. Those of you who have the talents are very good at sharing them with people like myself who are trying to learn. I have even shared some things with others today and felt good about doing it.
I look forward to the next exercises/challenges so that I can learn more. It is certainly giving me a lot of pleasure here in my retirement and making me wish I had some way to put these new found treasures to work (although satisfying myself is great feedback as well).
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
dcahall, angelize, & gare
Thank you for the very interesting thread. I have to admit this one was a tough one for me. :p
Attachment 94790
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BeanPole
dcahall, angelize, & gare
Thank you for the very interesting thread. I have to admit this one was a tough one for me. :p
Attachment 94790
Nice one BeanPole, I'd say you made it look easy, love the snake. What techniqe did you favour for the weaving, Clone, Erase or Clip?
Stygg
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
I tried all 3 and erasing worked the best for me. A trick Angelize suggest was before I started erasing, put a copy (of the snake or vine) in the back. That way when you erase if you are not exact, the one in the background will show through so and your inaccuracies with the eraser will not show.
I agree, this has been a fun thread.
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Just a point of fact with the Eraser tool: Vector shapes suffer permanent editing when you use this tool, but on bitmaps (photos, pixel-based paintings, and so on), you're only masking an area and if you open the Page an Layer Gallery, you can edit and delete the mask. also, as long as even a portion of a bitmap is on the page and the document is saved, the "original" bitmap is stored in the Bitmap Gallery and you can drag a copy onto the page at any time.
Attachment 94797
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Actually, it was easy. It was all the things that I did wrong that I had to correct that made it hard! I started out with the tutorial on "Interlocking Rings". This uses the combine shapes - intersect shapes. That was easy and worked very well. Then I did the name and interweaved a snake shape using the intersect shapes.
When I tried to do the line like Gare showed (an earlier post), I couldn't seem to get the intersect shapes to work so I ended up using the eraser. (Later I realized that if I had changed the line to a shape, the intersect shapes likely would have worked!)
For sure the eraser was easy and seemed to work the best for me as well. Ah! Just love that UNDO Button!
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Xara Xhris does have a really nice tutorial on YouTube that demonstrates how to use the Boolean operators in Xara (add, subtract, intersect) to make "neighboring" shapes that overlap one another with a space. I'd shown something like this technique in the Official Guide and an interlocking set of initials like you see on cologne bottles.
Don't forget to use the Bevel tool to make your work look puffy or popping off the page, or engraved. It's quick and easy.
-g
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Thanks Gare
I used the bevel tool on the text and it did look much better!
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Bevel shapes aren't for "everyday Artwork", but the feature is usefull for dimensionalizing flat art, and it's good for more than simple web buttons.
I used the Rounded 2 preset on the attached piece; it's a seamless tile, BTW. You keep the Contrast down and just play with the options you have.
Attachment 94802
My Best,
Gary
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Re: Interweaving vines with 3D text
Boy am I dense..........I have tried multiple times/ways using the combine shapes process and cannot get the results.
Someone point me to those tutorials because I am sure doing something wrong.
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Re: Interweaving vines with 3D text
Dave—
This is PlayTime and ExperimentTime, so forget about any goal other than understanding stuff, okay?
Create different colored shapes, 5 will do, and overlap some of them with others.
Go to Window>control Bars, and then in the d'box, check the Arrange bar.
You can do all these functions when you select two or more overlapping shapes, this is from the Help file:
•Add shapes together.
•Or subtract the top shape from the other shapes.
•Or discard parts of other shapes not covered by the top shape.
•Or use the top shape to slice the other shapes
Yeah, you can go to Arrange>Combine shapes, but it's the tedious way to get things done.
Attachment 94803
It's what I used until he Shapebuilder and Erase were invented and actually I still use Add and subtract almost daily.
Attachment 94804
-g
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Re: Interweaving vines with 3D text
dcahall,
put the vine to the back,
the next layer is the text,
then you klone the vine, which puts a second on top of the first one, and on top of the text.
then you draw the shape and cover the top layer where you want the vine to remain (over the text), and do the intersect shapes.
What this literally does is totally delete the klone except where you put the shape. Then this mini shape that is over the vine can be edited if necessary by moving and adjusting the nodes.
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Re: Interweaving vines with 3D text
dcahall,
There is a great tutorial on interweaving thread in Graphics Chat section. There is a link to the tutorial named Interlocking Rings. I will try and include it here.
One of Gary Priester's XaraXone workbooks shows how to interweave rings.
http://www.xaraxone.com/webxealot/workbook10/page_5.htm
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Re: Interweaving vines with 3D text
Ah.
I'd be remiss at this point to not point out that there are 15 years' worth of tutorials in Xara Xone's archive section.
Xara Xone 1996 through 2011 Archives
Gary Priester pumped the well for a decade and a half.
Gary Bouton is only on Year 2 ("Year II" makes it look classier, doesn't it?)
My Best,
Gary
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Re: Interweaving vines with 3D text
OK - I understand the process but am having some weird performance on my laptop. It all seems to stem from using the blend tool on the vine. With a simple line for the vine, placing the line (as an editable shape) here is the process and it works beautifully.
1. Put the vine behind the text
2. Select the text and the vine and hit Ctrl-C to save a copy
3. With both still selected Ctrl-3
4. With the "clipped" portions showing > Arrange - Break Shapes to make the clipped pieces editable
5. Ctrl-Shift-V to paste a copy of the original objects back on the screen
6. With the pasted objects back on the screen, Crtl-B to these objects to the back
7. Now go delete the "clipped" objects you do not want so that the vine appears to go before and behind in the desired areas
Again, this works fine unless I do the blend on the vine. Then my computer just hangs.
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gare
Just a point of fact with the Eraser tool: Vector shapes suffer permanent editing when you use this tool, but on bitmaps (photos, pixel-based paintings, and so on), you're only masking an area and if you open the Page an Layer Gallery, you can edit and delete the mask. also, as long as even a portion of a bitmap is on the page and the document is saved, the "original" bitmap is stored in the Bitmap Gallery and you can drag a copy onto the page at any time.
Attachment 94797
You can actually erase a vector object in a non destructive manner. Just set the softness setting to 1% it will still give you a sharp clean edge but what it does is change the way the eraser works and instead of actually changing the shape its self the tool applies an opacity mask.
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
I have now tried this whole process with different (simpler) shapes and have boiled it down to the blend process. This causes everything to be treated differently. I got fairly close but had definitely proved to myself that the intersect shape down not work when there is a blended shape. If you can live with a fairly simple line/vine then the intersect method is very easy to use. Xara Xhris has a very straight forward video on You Tube (thanks for pointing me to that Gare) but it does not work with the blend.
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
@Frances. Thanks for pointing that out. I truly didn't know that you could "opacity mask" using the Eraser.
So now you can do both destructive and non-destructive erasing. both are valuable depending on your intention.
@Dave—I don't know what your system specs are, but I am able to intersect a line blend of five steps with an ellipse. I'm attaching the file; why don't you try it when you have time to let your system hang. The bottom shape is he product of intersecting the blend lines with the ellipse.
Try this: once you have your Blend group of shapes the way you want them, select 'em and then press Ctrl+Shift+S (Arrange>convert to editable Shapes). This—mathematically—simplifies the group and you might get where you want to go then. The dynamic blend attribute is destroyed and the blend can't be edited any more. but the result is a group of 7 lines if you do 5 steps, and I think I was able to apply a boolean operation even back in version 4 with a Pentium box!
My Best,
Gary
Oh, and P.S. We're getting O/T again and I'm going to get screamed at for "poaching" activity and privatizing it on the Xara Xone thread. Please share with the entire community when you have a tip, or when you have a general question, cool?
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
If you have the eraser tool you can easily use it on your blend and you don't have to even set a softness because this is the beauty of this tool if you erase a complex object like a blend or group you automatically get an opacity mask :)
Edit: Gary you are right we are straying here so I've started a thread in the Xara Graphic Chat forum for discussion and tips and tricks of both the eraser tool and the shapebuilder tool.
http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthre...ols-Handy-tips
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Do not want to get off target any more but here is the results of my research.
Attachment 94824
If you want to pursue this any further, please move to another thread.